Darkfall

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by TenSpotting

Originally posted by Aragon100

Your assuming alot.

You're assumptions is worth nothing.

It's 100% feature complete, not 90%.

Based on what? A video showing a generic combat system?  Is that what Darkfall is?  Feature complete?  Than I suppose it's feature complete.

Have a nice day

 

 

Ok since you continualy argue that DarkFall is not feature complete you must have played it. I am of course assuming this since the basis for your arguement is that since he hasn't played it he can't know that it is feature complete I would assume that you would fall under the same requirements. If you havent played DarkFall then you can not say it isn't feature complete. We are of course going based on the word of those Developing the game itself and probably have a better view point than you do, meaning they actual know whats in and whats not unlike you.

Having said that the feature list of DarkFall far surpases WoW's. If they only manage to deliver on half of the list they still Surpase WoW's features. Considering the only thing we have to go by at the moment is the Devs saying DarkFall is feature complete we have to take it as it stands for now until someone has some proof to the contrary. I don't mean opinions from those they have not seen it but actual proof.

 

Yeah....and when people called others idiotic fanbois when saying that about AoC and FunCom, that was justified...because? Seriously. Most of the people hyping this game have bashed other games as trash more than once, even before release. And you are surprised DF gets the same treatment? Considering there is far LESS to show for DF than there was for AoC (and look how that turned out) or for WAR?

 

All we have is the word of the developers. some people choose to have faith in that, others do not. Both are valid points. To say it -WILL- fail or it -WILL- succeed on the other hand, are both not valid.

 

Well considering the past history of FC, you know with Anarchy online and them basicaly repeating what they said then and failing to deliver yet again.... . They ignored us........ The beta forums were wiped alongf with all the complaints and topics about the numerous exclusions . They released and lied lied lied there way to the bank.  This isn't a new tactic by FC.  DarkFall doesn't have this reputation. Nor have they had a multi-million dollar add campaing. There even putting there money where there mouth is. They want you to try it for FREE before buying it. Not a free trial a year or 2 down the road, a free trial before any of us spends one dime on it. No forced pre-orders to help generate false hype.

The actions FC and EA take while promoting a game always put me on the defensive because they have shady buissness tactics. Aventurine doesn't have that history with me. It's a new company that seems to be attempting to do right by it's players. EA nor FC can say they do right by there players. They do a money grab first then try and keep who they have left. 50-60$ x 800,000 box sales = nice sum to add to there bank accounts. Did all those players stay? no. DId atleast most stay? no. Why? because it was a money grab. Convience as many people to buy it before they try it so that even if they don't like it you get a box sale out of them.

 

That doesn't seem to me to be what Aventurine is about. So far they have been pretty straight up with the community. They don't communicate on a daily or even weekly basis, seems they try though. But they havent out right lied to us yet.

On a side not FC's Dx10 2 days before launch post was bull. Yes it was done in time to say they warned us. But it wasn't in time for most of us to even know about them saying it. So they wanted the DX10 hype without actually having DX10. More shadey chit.

 

...OK, maybe we have differing opinions on what qualifies as trust for a company. I'm sorry, I can't see good reason to trust Aventurine more than say Mythic. They haven't screwed up in the past you say...well, that's mainly because they haven't presented much yet, have they? A load of screenshots...and a few videos.

 

They had a Beta-Date they missed (yes yes, I'm not going to get into the discussion of how many there were, most people seem to agree however that there was -ONE- date they missed). They have promised a lot of things, but haven't shown any evidence for it. They have not let anyone touch their game, save for some obscure people who later wrote articles about it which are less than informative since basically, they only repeat the Dev-Blogs.

 

Yes, they don#t have a history of screwing up a launch, obviously. But does that suddenly give them some kind of bonus? Does that mean they are immune to the possibility of failure? No. It does not. But some people seem to think so.

 

It's really getting sort of frustrating to correspond with DF supporters (well, many of them anyway). Simply because they won#t hear -any- sort of criticism about their game, nor any legitimate worries. Yes, they are legitimate, because there have been other games that have promised a lot and have not delivered (and not just by "FailCom"). That, coupled with a above average Development cycle and very little media/evidence on the game makes people wonder. Is that -SO- hard to understand?

 

 

They haven't missed any official dates yet. This has been avoided by proper wording. But is a mute point.  I have no problem with Mythic but they are owned by EA and EA had plenty of bad history for me atleast and alot of other UO players. Point is I bashed your bash on someone else who was bashing a bash made by someone else lol. It's all rather pointless. I trust Aventurine to the extent im waiting for the release of DarkFall. I believe the features they have said will be in will in fact be in. I base this trust on the what seems to be there current buisness practice. They won't be charging me to try the game. If they did lie like the fore mentioned companies it won't cost me 50-60$ to find that out. So it really serves them less purpose in doing the same lying the other companies have.  I trust Aventurine because honestly they won't gain one thing by lying to me if they let me try the game for free before buying it.

FC did not do this. They lied and charged you for the knowledge they did.

Even EA didn't give beta Access to Warhammer without a pre-order.

So the other companies charge you to find out, while Aventurine is going to show us for free.

See why I trust Aventurine on this? Because I lose nothing by doing so. Neither do you or anyone else that wants to bash on fans or ect.

If they fail to deliver no one is out of pocket to find this out so it's no where near the same as the money grab companies. If I trusted FC which many did they were out 50-60$ to find out they were lied to.

Argue all you want about how DarkFall will suck or fail or be vaporware but the point is it isn't going to cost any of us a penny to find out. So chill , wait and see.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

They haven't missed any official dates yet. This has been avoided by proper wording. But is a mute point.  I have no problem with Mythic but they are owned by EA and EA had plenty of bad history for me atleast and alot of other UO players. Point is I bashed your bash on someone else who was bashing a bash made by someone else lol. It's all rather pointless. I trust Aventurine to the extent im waiting for the release of DarkFall. I believe the features they have said will be in will in fact be in. I base this trust on the what seems to be there current buisness practice. They won't be charging me to try the game. If they did lie like the fore mentioned companies it won't cost me 50-60$ to find that out. So it really serves them less purpose in doing the same lying the other companies have.  I trust Aventurine because honestly they won't gain one thing by lying to me if they let me try the game for free before buying it.

 

FC did not do this. They lied and charged you for the knowledge they did.

Even EA didn't give beta Access to Warhammer without a pre-order.

So the other companies charge you to find out, while Aventurine is going to show us for free.

See why I trust Aventurine on this? Because I lose nothing by doing so. Neither do you or anyone else that wants to bash on fans or ect.

If they fail to deliver no one is out of pocket to find this out so it's no where near the same as the money grab companies. If I trusted FC which many did they were out 50-60$ to find out they were lied to.

Argue all you want about how DarkFall will suck or fail or be vaporware but the point is it isn't going to cost any of us a penny to find out. So chill , wait and see.

Which is another thing we will have to wait about, won't we? Testing the game for free before I buy it is one of the things that'll have to be there. Will it be there? Who knows.

And by the way, all I am saying to people here is that they should "chill" as you so nicely put it. Both sides need to chill. That goes for the Supporters as much as for the "Haters".

And I am not going to get into the argument about how crappy EA is or how crappy FC is. This is a moot point. I've shown you the reasons why I do -not- believe everything Aventurine says. Please, go on and do the opposite. I'm not trying to keep anyone from believing in this game.

I'm only trying to keep people from presenting the game as though it already IS everything it promises to be, simply because of "the Dev's say so". Anyway, I am signing out now. I hope my point got across somewhere.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

They haven't missed any official dates yet. This has been avoided by proper wording. But is a mute point.  I have no problem with Mythic but they are owned by EA and EA had plenty of bad history for me atleast and alot of other UO players. Point is I bashed your bash on someone else who was bashing a bash made by someone else lol. It's all rather pointless. I trust Aventurine to the extent im waiting for the release of DarkFall. I believe the features they have said will be in will in fact be in. I base this trust on the what seems to be there current buisness practice. They won't be charging me to try the game. If they did lie like the fore mentioned companies it won't cost me 50-60$ to find that out. So it really serves them less purpose in doing the same lying the other companies have.  I trust Aventurine because honestly they won't gain one thing by lying to me if they let me try the game for free before buying it.

 

FC did not do this. They lied and charged you for the knowledge they did.

Even EA didn't give beta Access to Warhammer without a pre-order.

So the other companies charge you to find out, while Aventurine is going to show us for free.

See why I trust Aventurine on this? Because I lose nothing by doing so. Neither do you or anyone else that wants to bash on fans or ect.

If they fail to deliver no one is out of pocket to find this out so it's no where near the same as the money grab companies. If I trusted FC which many did they were out 50-60$ to find out they were lied to.

Argue all you want about how DarkFall will suck or fail or be vaporware but the point is it isn't going to cost any of us a penny to find out. So chill , wait and see.

  

I'm only trying to keep people from presenting the game as though it already IS everything it promises to be, simply because of "the Dev's say so". Anyway, I am signing out now. I hope my point got across somewhere.

It's by no mean "simply" because.

They're way more accurate and trustworthy then people like you that actually dont have a clue. You have nothing backing your cautious line. It's merely a history lesson from earlier failures you're bringing up.

Having faith in the one's developing the game is actually backing a way stronger case then the opposite.

Without reading all the replies, the OP's agrument was that smaller companies stand no chance then he gives a  quote saying how a budget of ~3million (USD) was required only 7 years ago.

I would like to refute his first point, about small companies not having any chance.  Most MMO's get their fair shot -- the game just has to be good enough for players to want to play.  Practically every modern MMO had it's fair shot - AoC, DnL, EVE, you name it - MMO fans have heard of it / played it.  A big hype machine is not needed.

Secondly, there was a recent inteview with a greek gaming website.  In this interview, the developers revealed that they've spent about ten million (Euros) on game devleopment. 

I'd say these two facts refute your agrument fairly well.  Most people try out any MMO they can get their hands on and the DF team has sunk considerable amounts of money into the development of DF.

Originally posted by sentrysteve

Without reading all the replies, the OP's agrument was that smaller companies stand no chance then he gives a  quote saying how a budget of ~3million (USD) was required only 7 years ago.

I would like to refute his first point, about small companies not having any chance.  Most MMO's get their fair shot -- the game just has to be good enough for players to want to play.  Practically every modern MMO had it's fair shot - AoC, DnL, EVE, you name it - MMO fans have heard of it / played it.  A big hype machine is not needed.

Secondly, there was a recent inteview with a greek gaming website.  In this interview, the developers revealed that they've spent about ten million (Euros) on game devleopment. 

I'd say these two facts refute your agrument fairly well.  Most people try out any MMO they can get their hands on and the DF team has sunk considerable amounts of money into the development of DF.

Agree.

10 million Euros is alot of money.

Originally posted by TenSpotting

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20341

 

 

So Funcom is considered a "small" company. Haha

Than what does that make Aventurine? A company full of complete amateur developers who have never launched a single product on the market that anyone knows of let alone a MMORPG that is (on paper) supposed to be as feature rich as Wow? (ya right)

For that reason, Jacobs sees a hard road ahead for smaller companies like Funcom, which earlier this year launched Age of Conan.
 
 

 

But Jacobs also believes that an independent studio like Mythic was in 2001 would not have that same ability in today's MMO market. Now, his company has the considerable backing of new owner Electronic Arts -- and those kinds of resources are necessary to compete in a post-WoW world, he says.

"Back in 2001, you didn't have to spend anywhere near the amount of money you do on an MMO now," he points out. "Look at what we spent on Camelot: $2.5 million developing it, $650,000 in marketing it. You couldn't spend that on a triple-A MMO now if your life depended on it! You just couldn't! It would get you nothing in terms of content."

 

 

 

Actually it might not effect them in the way you think it will.

My sense is that he is talking about typical development. But as everyone knows, Dark Fall has been in development for a very long time by (or so it seems) very dedicated people.

So as he said that a small amount of money would not get you anything with regards to content, it seems plausible that a company with dedicated people who take a loooonnnnnggggg time to create the game could make up for that money with dev's taking less money, few dev's and then utilizing a "when it's done it's done" approach.

In a large company or a company where employees expect certain things, it might not be possible. But get a small group of extremely dedicated dev's who just "plug away" you might get a finished game but it will be after a long period of time.

Given from what I've seen of Dark Fall, there is a game there. Good? Who knows. Also, a pvp game might not require the same level of content or quests. Heck, look at lineage 2. Horrible quests and not that many as compared to many other games. Most of the content is player created in the sense that he politics and drama fuels the game.