WAR (Warhammer Online)

WAR is a good game, no doubt about it. It has some great ideas to contribute. But its problem is not that it lacks big ideas. Rather, it falls short in the details and the polish that makes WoW so fun to play (or even to grind).

Yes, I believe the WoW comparison has to be made. WAR is clearly influenced by WoW and is simply begging for that comparison. Now, on to the points:

1) The combat just doesn't "feel" good. I think it's a combination of subpar sound effects and the poor animation not synchronizing well together. Grinding mobs with my warrior priest is half as fun as tearing through mobs with my warrior in WoW. Here's the thing. I'm a big fan or games like Minesweeper and Tetris. They are addictive not because they have groundbreaking graphics or epic ideas but because they are satisfying. There's just that "click" when you clear a line. Just like how combat in WoW simply had that satisfying feel to it - from the charge to the devastate. Everything clicks. It feels like a mini-game in its own way. I actually like grinding motes in WoW. It's therapeutic just like playing Tetris. No joke. 

2) Questing is so easy it's trivial. I don't feel like any of it matters because I can get much better experience doing scenarios anyway. I know you will say that's the point but it really trivializes the feeling of exploration. The WoW quests ARE time-sinks but it is because of that that completing a quest actually feels like an accomplishment. As it stands, the current ultra-fast questing system is fine were it not for 1). Grinding is no fun, either with a Black Orc and especially with my Warrior Priest (my main). 

3) WAR is basically an amusement park, where you are ushered through a set path and wait in line for the rides. Everything is geared toward your satisfaction - the experience, renown points keep rolling in, at every moment upgrades geared specifically for you are shoved in your face, the PQs dole out rewards suitable specifically for your class. The game basically bends over backwards to make sure you, the gamer, is having a good time and feeling rewarded. Frankly, it feels a bit patronizing.

WoW is a time-sink and is also linear, etc. But its brilliance lies in its ability to create the illusion that it is free and open. The difficulty (i.e. raids and the harder 5-mans) and grind and time commitment needed to advance in WoW is not NECESSARILY a bad thing - just like accomplishing things in real life, raiding takes effort (PvP is a different matter). In WAR I can just stand around in scenarios or RvR and half-assedly do some damage and healing and I'd come away with a healthy stream of points. 

I did not regret buying WAR at all. But I probably won't resubscribe and will take WotLK instead. I don't mean to insult WAR - I'm just stating that its design goals and philosophy doesn't really suit my playing style.

To summarize: WAR feels contrived. The gameplay feels like the game world is designed for the gamer and not your character, if that makes any sense. 

In my view of MMORPG history, WAR represents another step taken on the road away from UO and EQ (when MMOs were a fringe hobby). Now it's all about instant gratification, FPS style. I'm interested in MMOs for the stories - both the ones written in-game and the ones you make for yourself. Of course, many of us are looking for a game that returns to the roots of the genre - a sandbox, no hand-holding game that takes commitment and effort to learn. A game that has an element of risk and you might actually get screwed over by other players or if you get unlucky.

WoW took that first step on the road, of course, but it disguised it so well that the game felt perfect. Speaking of which, I really should go get my warrior alt to 70 in time for WotLK. 

This is not a flame nor is it a review. Just some thoughts. But feel free to disagree and get angry like some in this community likes to do.

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ADDED:

To elaborate: I think the Tome of Knowledge is brilliant. The idea of tracking quests, lore, exploration is fantastic. The ToK would fit a game like WoW perfectly. But in WAR, when there are so many mindless 3-minute quests the greatness of the ToK idea doesn't fit with the forgettable nature of the quests themselves. The ToK feels less like a record of what I've done as it  does a record of what I don't know I did but might read up on afterwards if I'm bored. You know what I mean?

I would say that WAR contributed a few genuine innovations to the genre:

Public quests - though the 3-step pattern in WAR is far too predictable, but the concept can be expanded on in future games

Tome of Knowledge - a logical next step for MMOs that I'm sure Blizzard will catch onto (in WotLK)

Permanent RvR-style war-effort effects on your capital city - of course this is actually due to DAoC

Collision detection - minor but of great tactical significance

ok now we know you think that. what now?

Originally posted by invsblmn

WAR is a good game, no doubt about it. It has some great ideas to contribute. But its problem is not that it lacks big ideas. Rather, it falls short in the details and the polish that makes WoW so fun to play (or even to grind).

Yes, I believe the WoW comparison has to be made. WAR is clearly influenced by WoW and is simply begging for that comparison. Now, on to the points:

1) The combat just doesn't "feel" good. I think it's a combination of subpar sound effects and the poor animation not synchronizing well together. Grinding mobs with my warrior priest is half as fun as tearing through mobs with my warrior in WoW. Here's the thing. I'm a big fan or games like Minesweeper and Tetris. They are addictive not because they have groundbreaking graphics or epic ideas but because they are satisfying. There's just that "click" when you clear a line. Just like how combat in WoW simply had that satisfying feel to it - from the charge to the devastate. Everything clicks. It feels like a mini-game in its own way. I actually like grinding motes in WoW. It's therapeutic just like playing Tetris. No joke. 

2) Questing is so easy it's trivial. I don't feel like any of it matters because I can get much better experience RvRing anyway. I know you will say that's the point but it really trivializes the feeling of exploration. The WoW quests ARE time-sinks but it is because of that that completing a quest actually feels like an accomplishment. As it stands, the current ultra-fast questing system is fine were it not for 1). Grinding is no fun, either with a Black Orc and especially with my Warrior Priest (my main). 

3) WAR is basically an amusement park, where you are ushered through a set path and wait in line for the rides. Everything is geared toward your satisfaction - the experience, renown points keep rolling in, at every moment upgrades geared specifically for you are shoved in your face, the PQs dole out rewards suitable specifically for your class. The game basically bends over backwards to make sure you, the gamer, is having a good time and feeling rewarded. Frankly, it feels a bit patronizing.

WoW is a time-sink and is also linear, etc. But its brilliance lies in its ability to create the illusion that it is free and open. The difficulty (i.e. raids and the harder 5-mans) and grind and time commitment needed to advance in WoW is not NECESSARILY a bad thing - just like accomplishing things in real life, raiding takes effort (PvP is a different matter). In WAR I can just stand around in scenarios or RvR and half-assedly do some damage and healing and I'd come away with a healthy stream of points. 

I did not regret buying WAR at all. But I probably won't resubscribe and will take WotLK instead. I don't mean to insult WAR - I'm just stating that its design goals and philosophy doesn't really suit my playing style.

To summarize: WAR feels contrived. The gameplay feels like the game world is designed for the gamer and not your character, if that makes any sense. 

In my view of MMORPG history, WAR represents another step taken on the road away from UO and EQ (when MMOs were a fringe hobby). Now it's all about instant gratification, FPS style. I'm interested in MMOs for the stories - both the ones written in-game and the ones you make for yourself. Of course, many of us are looking for a game that returns to the roots of the genre - a sandbox, no hand-holding game that takes commitment and effort to learn. A game that has an element of risk and you might actually get screwed over by other players or if you get unlucky.

WoW took that first step on the road, of course, but it disguised it so well that the game felt perfect. Speaking of which, I really should go get my warrior alt to 70 in time for WotLK. 

This is not a flame nor is it a review. Just some thoughts. But feel free to disagree and get angry like some in this community likes to do.

I think their are a lot of very good points here and some very accurate (and some I disagree with). War IS another step away from UO nad EQ and I think you are right, the gameplay is more about a game and less about living in an immersive world.

However, I know for me that is fine as I  am always having fun in it. I would say that WoW is still more like  a world but more Amusment Park like and War is in some cases much more amusement park like.

so if you want a fun game, play Warhammer. If you want to have more of a world where you feel you are in a world then Warhammer might not fit the bill. I do like that there is a lot of action going on all the time and I enjoy quite a few things about Warhammer. But I think it's for people who enjoy RvR and especially pvp scenarios. I enjoy the PvE but it's nothing really special. Still, I am having a great time so money well spent.

You make some pretty good points

will have to agree with you on the subject

I agree with you too. WAR is fun just not very MMOish type fun

Originally posted by invsblmn

To summarize: WAR feels contrived. The gameplay feels like the game world is designed for the gamer and not your character, if that makes any sense. 

And WOW doesn't?

I get your point but there is no point to make some review of how your gonna go play wow again. Let us enjoy warhammer online and you go play the same old grind game thats been around for 3 years. I am a ex wow player and this game may be a little buggy but this stuff will get fixed. WOW is making another ex pac making all the tier 6 and brutal glad gear useless again so you can grind and do it all over again and again and the cycle will continue until the game finnaly dies off prolly in another 3 years or so.

So designing a game for the gamer and not the character is a bad thing?

I have played WoW for a long time, and to be honest, I just recently (last half a year) made an account just so I can be a deathknight. I believe that is about to change. WAR give me the feeling that I am a leader of an army and I need X strageties to win. I have to think when I play WAR, so it's kind of like a giant game of Risk (if you know what board game that is.) I love the feeling that at any moment an order (or destruction) player will pop out of nowhere and attack me without warning.

So I respect your opinion, but I do not like games that require excessive grinding. No matter how polished it is.