General Discussion

90% of the MMos outthere are about starting at lvl 1 and reaching lvl X.
Usually you reach meaningful content only when reaching said lvl X.

The path from 1 to X seems more of an habit taken by the developpers, or is it a concerted marketing ploy to make players pay there 15$ monthly-fee?

With my latest MMO, i found out i didn't want to lvl, because i've done it several times before, and i already know that meaningful actions can only be done at the maximum lvl, and everything from 1 to X will be a dumbed version of what i can find at the max lvl, thus i'm loosing my time lvling.

what's your take on this?

Is lvling just what it is: a hobby, or a true game concept worth keeping for the future?

You are supposed to enjoy the journey to the top, and not seek only the gratification that you perceive will be waiting for you at end-game.  Now I realize some games like say Lineage 2 really don't let you play the real game till you get to the top,and that's just bad design on their part IMO.

Done correctly, your progression (doesn't always have to be levels) should be a fun experience, and something you don't even mind repeating a couple of times.

Sadly, many games don't work this way, so I can understand why you wouldn't want to level in some of them.

It all depends on the person who is playing.  If you percieve having the very best equipment as the best part of the game then leveling will not mean much to you.  If you find PvP is the best part of the game then leveling will probably be worthless to you.  If you like raiding tuff dungeons over and over again then you might not find leveling enjoyable.

PvP and Raiding were never part of original RPGs.  Old RPGs were always about the journey and watching your character grow.  They were also about interacting with a small group of people.  I still believe that Everquest was the closest game to true D&D and it is the game where I had my fondest memories.

The games that come out these days are hybrids trying to satisfy every group of people and  failing to do so.  They want to satisfy the casual PvE, the hardcore PvE, the casual PvP, the hardcore PvP, The casual raiding, and the hardcore raider.  It's just about impossible to do this.  Hopefully Devs will start taking a more specialized path with games and aim at lower subscription numbers.

As for leveling I enjoy the jouney a lot myself.  Thats probably the favorite part of the game for me if it's done well.  Unfortunately it hasn't been done very well of late.

Whether skill levels or character levels, I see it as a leftover from PnP games that only serves to lengthen gameplay and try to instill a sense of accomplishment in the player.

It is useful to try and keep people playing the game, but I do not find it interesting.  I like getting new abilities to play with and going to new areas, but having to level my character and getting a new level or skill point just isn't fun for me and it seems to be an abritrary system for slowing down my ability to see content to try and get as much money out of me as possible.

But for most people leveling things is the fun addictive part of the game, most MMOs could not survive on fun alone.

Originally posted by Omega3

90% of the MMos outthere are about starting at lvl 1 and reaching lvl X.
Usually you reach meaningful content only when reaching said lvl X.

The path from 1 to X seems more of an habit taken by the developpers, or is it a concerted marketing ploy to make players pay there 15$ monthly-fee?

With my latest MMO, i found out i didn't want to lvl, because i've done it several times before, and i already know that meaningful actions can only be done at the maximum lvl, and everything from 1 to X will be a dumbed version of what i can find at the max lvl, thus i'm loosing my time lvling.

what's your take on this?

Is lvling just what it is: a hobby, or a true game concept worth keeping for the future?

I think you are very bored and trying to make some kind of genius point.  You are trying to make a slam against the system and guess what, it really doesn't matter.  What ever leveling is or what  you or other might think it is, people are playing it in large numbers.

Now will the market change?  Maybe, but only when it is losing money, which there are zero signs of the market doing so.

Originally posted by Kyleran

You are supposed to enjoy the journey to the top, and not seek only the gratification that you perceive will be waiting for you at end-game.  Now I realize some games like say Lineage 2 really don't let you play the real game till you get to the top,and that's just bad design on their part IMO.

Done correctly, your progression (doesn't always have to be levels) should be a fun experience, and something you don't even mind repeating a couple of times.

Sadly, many games and gamers don't work this way, so I can understand why you wouldn't want to level in some of them.

 

 

Agree with what you said and added alittle something

Originally posted by Kyleran

You are supposed to enjoy the journey to the top, and not seek only the gratification that you perceive will be waiting for you at end-game.  Now I realize some games like say Lineage 2 really don't let you play the real game till you get to the top,and that's just bad design on their part IMO.

Done correctly, your progression (doesn't always have to be levels) should be a fun experience, and something you don't even mind repeating a couple of times.

Sadly, many games don't work this way, so I can understand why you wouldn't want to level in some of them.

 

 

Ive played too many mmo's and I cant think of any I would want to level in. I like "end game" content and I firmly believe that it should start on day 1. Character progression is the worst feature ever added to mmo's it keeps players from playing with friends, and unbalances PvP. There are far better goals than to increase character powers, ex: money, world domination, politics, empire building, or survival.

You know something is wrong when you can take a fishing game add levels and its now a mmo.

I certainly beleive the leveling aspect has been overdone in a cookiecutter fashion. Level up, improve skills, repeat basic tasks, level up, improve skills, etc, etc...

I've made mention of this before, but it just seems to keep coming back up because it is so different. A game that I've found that breaks the mold is Beyond Protocol. It's an MMORTS instead of an RPG, but it does the RTS thing in a very different way. While you are progressing technologies, almost the same way you would skills in an RPG, the technologies end up creating a very unique skill set for your empire, in addition you can customize/craft, just about any type of weapon/radar/armor/vehicle you can think of with the custom technology builders. With this there really isn't any leveling, it's all pretty much development, in a fun way.

I know half of you won't read this, but for those who do, really, give it a shot. It's something different, and it's in open beta now.

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

 I think you are very bored and trying to make some kind of genius point.  You are trying to make a slam against the system and guess what, it really doesn't matter.  What ever leveling is or what  you or other might think it is, people are playing it in large numbers.Now will the market change?  Maybe, but only when it is losing money, which there are zero signs of the market doing so.

1) If posting here is a sign of being bored, what are you doing here?

2) If you claim the right to discuss about various MMO subjects on a dedicated forum to support your right to post here, then why would you try and attack my contribution which is exactly about what those forums are about: general discussion about MMORPGs?

I'm seriously tired of people like you trying to drag down people into the mud with personnal attacks, i'd expect more of a 48 year old chap than 15 yo' flaming.

If i'm think-tanking about MMORPG it's not to make a "genius point", i'm just disappointed with WAR and trying to understand why i have outgrown the genre.

Thanks for your contribution though.