General Discussion

Fable 2 is great!

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

 

This is definition of FPS: 

Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.

Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.

The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

 

I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

My definition of FPS:

A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

 

My definition of an RPG in a video game.

Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

RPG as in tabletop:

Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

 

Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

 

Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.

 

 

 

No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

I hate FPS! I never played FPS and I never will. Why does all these so called RPG developers force me to aim with my cursor when I want to play a roleplaying game?? At least give me some new version of Wizardry  that had turn-based first person perspective combat. I stopped dreaming about another isometric RPG 3 years ago.

Fallout 3 and Fable 2

Originally posted by Steelrose

I hate FPS! I never played FPS and I never will. Why does all these so called RPG developers force me to aim with my cursor when I want to play a roleplaying game?? At least give me some new version of Wizardry  that had turn-based first person perspective combat. I stopped dreaming about another isometric RPG 3 years ago.

I don't see why that is a problem. So what  if you have to aim with a cursor?

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Steelrose

I hate FPS! I never played FPS and I never will. Why does all these so called RPG developers force me to aim with my cursor when I want to play a roleplaying game?? At least give me some new version of Wizardry  that had turn-based first person perspective combat. I stopped dreaming about another isometric RPG 3 years ago.

 

I don't see why that is a problem. So what  if you have to aim with a cursor?

Because, it means its FPS and I HATE FPS. Im not playing FPS because I have to aim with my cursor. It's stressful to aim, it's too much based on reflexes and my own dexterity and I don't want that. I like to play a slow preferably turn-based isometric game with a lot of time to think. And there's no RPG like that anymore. Everything that's getting released lately are FPS-style games so it pleases the majority of gamers (console-gamers), because that's what sells.

Originally posted by Steelrose

Originally posted by cukimunga

Originally posted by Steelrose

 

This is definition of FPS: 

Definition: A First Person Shooter (FPS) is a genre of video game in which the player sees the game from a first-person point of view (as if they were the game character), and which has a focus on shooting (or otherwise killing or disabling) enemies.

Oblivion has a STRONG focus on killing, running, jumping etc... It's action based game. I repeat myself. Oblivion, KOTOR, Mass Effect are all FPS. It doesn't matter how much RP features it has, how many character development choices, how many quests whatever. The point is. The main gameplay in these games is consisted of combat. And the combat is swinging, aiming from the first person perspective.

The choices about paladin and aligments that you mentioned is irrelevant. You can play these kinds of aligments in Far Cry as well. You may pretend your character can't swim or your character is afraid of hights and never look down from cliff, or that you character never shoot anyone from behind. These are the same alligment and characteristics as playing a paladin that never kills any human in Oblivion that you mentioned. BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE FAR CRY RPG.

 

I agree that all ME and Oblivion have 1st and 3rd person views and combat is in those views, but changing the combat from a traditional turned based RPG dosen't just make it a FPS alone.

My definition of FPS:

A game where you are in a First person view which has a focus on shooting, there is no character development or levels and  no base stats. 

 

My definition of an RPG in a video game.

Any kinda of game from any kind of view that does have: character development, and levels and base stats that can be progressed or skills that can be progressed.  They take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games. their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game, but is more linear compared to the freedom of tabletop RPG's.

RPG as in tabletop:

Is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters.Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal or non-formal system of rules and guidelines.Within the rules, players have the freedom to improvise; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the game.

 

Now there might be sub genres,  Like ME is a FPSRPG or a TPSRPG I can agree that Oblivion could be a FPSActionRPG or a TPSActionRPG.  But thy just are not plain old regular run of the mill FPS they are hybrids but the core of the game is still RPG. Atleast I see it that way and the majority of people do as well.

 

Now about the Role playing the paladin part is where you just confused me.  I thought you said RPG is a way to play a character.  In the way you described I thought you were talking about what I was talking about.  And your right, in a way you could Role Play a character in any kind of game, but does it make it an RPG? NO its "the mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games"  that makes them RPG's.

 

 

 

 

No! It's not about mechanics. You can have extremly difficult character customization in FPS game with extreme difficult mechanics that would affect the damage that you deal for example, it's still FPS.

It's about gameplay, about what you do when you play. If most of the gameplay is consisted of running around, shooting things / aiming with your cursor or attacking with your blade from First Person perspective, it's FPS. And you can't play Oblivion as a pure RPG. The main quest line requires LOTS of fightning that can't be avoided. And fight means FPS aiming.

If Planescape Torment would be given 3d style and first person camera, it would not turn into FPS. Because 95% of the time in Planescape Torment you spend in dialogues. But in Oblivion, 95% of the time you spend running around or in combat, just like in Far Cry.

For me Oblivion is 95% FPS 5% RPG, just like for instance Warcraft 3 was 95% RTS 5% RPG. Why noone actually mentions Warcraft 3 as possible RPG? It has the same complex mechanics, you collect items, there are quests, your hero levels up, gain new abilities and you even can choose these abilities. You know why? Because 95% of the gameplay is about managing your army. Its RTS. Just like Oblivion is FPS. I don't care how much they payed for the publicity so every major magazine calls it RPG, or how old are there actual so called self-titled reviewers. Oblivion is NOT RPG.

Well if that is the case then most games are no rpg's. So what you are asking is to play a game where you can be a grocer in a fantasy world?

Look, these games stem from players wanting to be either a hero or some sort of side kick to a hero. Oblivioin is a rpg. It might require you to use a cursor to aim but so what? (as I said to the other gentleman).

That's just a game mechanic. Are you asking for an "i win" button so that you don't put forth any effort?

It seems to me that you are too caught up in game mechanics.

I play Oblivion as an RPG. I add and discard things as I wish. So, invisibility in Oblivion seemed like a game breaker though it has its advantages. I then made a rule only to use it under certain circumstances. I then adopted a certain personality for the character and played that character appropriately.

Now, I don't want to be a grocer in Oblvion so of course I went out there to smite evil (or good). I can agree with you in that the main quest does force you into a bit of a role, but you can easily role play this if you had the imagination to do so.

For my evil characters it was simple. Though my character was evil, Mehrunes Dagon (sp?) was a threat to what my character wanted and it was important to side with whoever I needed to in order to bring him down.

Is it total freedom where I can join Mehrunes Dagon? No, it's not. Quite frankly it would be better if you had that option. But that does not make it a "non rpg". It does make it an rpg where the choices are limited. But it still does not discount that you can roleplay a character in it.

And in the end, no one is forcing you to play the main story anyway. My apartment mate never really got far in the story. He got as far as escorting Martin to Cloud Ruler Temple and that was it. He was finished with the main story and set about to do the quests in the game as well as explore.

That's the beauty of it.

I applaud them making the combat exciting where you can actually die if you aren't good enough.

But what's that you say? in your game you are the best swordmaster and there should never be a chance that you die? No worries, put the game on easy and you can blaze through everything.

I'm sorry but you come across as a bit of a bean counter. Someone who loves rules and really needs them to define things.

Why can't a rpg utilize fps mechanics? Why can't a FPS incorporate rpg elements? Is it really that important to keep these things separate?