General Discussion

Originally posted by Kasimir

I think the MMO scene must die before it can evolve and rise like a Phoenix. It is stuck in a rut like no other, nohting new is coming onto the scene and peoples biggest hopes are games that cater to what MMOs were 10+ years ago. MMOs have not changed in any way in 5+ years all the while singleplayer games are running past them like sprinters beside a turtle, in terms of complexity, size and entertainemtn value. Today, you find the advanced games among singleplayers and the simple bubblegum crap among MMOs. Completly opposite compared to the birth of the MMO market (when they wanted to create more mature games for adults, and not everything aimed towards kids.) Its a fast downward spiral and people are jumping this genre. So.... It needs to die... They need to continue to make their mistakes and copy old concepts, then fail and die. They need to spend millions and years on game that can nto hold the attention of an average gamer for more than a few weeks, all the while the same gamers play a singleplayer game for 3 years... Then just die... In limbo... where all old ideas have failed... someone will rise up with a new generation of ideas, of creative thinking, get his inspiration form other sources than "what exists today" and then we will for the first time see real change, real evolution. The computer game market almost died like that when consoles started to get more advanced... It was all doom and gloom... Until the makers decided to not try to copy the consoles.. but instead do games that the consoles could not. More advanced and more detailed than jumping and shooting. It brought us to the games we play today.... We have the same problem now. I think the sollution is the same.

Make something others can not... and you will find the players. Copy what already exists... and people have already done it, they wont do it again. I have faith in CCP... But thats me. They really created something completly new last time. My hope is that they try to do it again, instead of jumping on the WoW train.

You are completely right !

MMO's have much more restrictions than single player games in everything from graphics to game design.

Too many people here are hooked up on playing the next big thing. It doesn't matter how many people play an MMO, no one is going to like you more because you play a popular title.

Provided the game is profitable and there are enough people on the server you play on for it to be fun, it doesn't matter whether it has 10k subs or 10mil subs.

Indie games in the next year or two will do fine, publishers come in and prop them up, we're even seeing new publishers jump into the fray like Take2. And also, pedigree does not mean they aren't indies, Cryptic is an indie studio and are working on Star Trek and Champions, they need massive finanical injections from the publisher to survive just like any other indie.

I just hope that this new breed of MMOs, and you can include Stargate and Star Wars in there, actually offer some more depth and challenge than the likes of WAR and AoC, those two are perhaps the most disappointing releases I've seen in this genre. Just because WoW is easy and user friendly, making a game even easier and more user friendly isn't necessarily going to get you a bigger share of the market. You can dumb things down too much and I think WAR is a prime example of this.

As the giant developers have been sucking with MMOs, I would say the indie's have a great shot.

Originally posted by bobfish

And also, pedigree does not mean they aren't indies, Cryptic is an indie studio and are working on Star Trek and Champions, they need massive finanical injections from the publisher to survive just like any other indie.

The official word is that Cryptic is self-publishing and 2K is only looking after the physical distribution of boxes around the world.

I don't know who is paying who for this service.

There are a ton of indie MMOs out there already. Looking at the games list I can easily see a handful of titles that didn't come out through a major publisher. There are plenty more out there if you look around - Meridian 59, A Tale in the Desert, Roma Victor, Shadowbane, Shattered Galaxy, Wizard 101 and there are plenty others.

Of course, what people are saying in this thread is they want a new MMO with just as much polish as existing MMOs and all the support structures they are used to that does the familiar better than what currently exists and contains some form of 'meaningful' PvP that they can win at.

The history of MMOs hasn't been indie firms rising up and creating revolutions; it's been the big companies pouring the money in to attract the larger audiences, then indies managing to find a niche that is hopefully profitable. I don't think for a second an indy firm is going to spring up with a game that changes everything because they are going to have a hard time attracting an audience and finding the money to polish a title as much as is necessary. Even EVE flopped on launch and it was only that the original publisher (Simon and Schuster (sp?)) sold the rights to EVE back to CCP (and cancelled a lot of the debt associated with EVE's development), followed by a period of a lot of work from CCP, that saw EVE grow into what it is today... and even that is considered niche among MMOs and probably unrepeatable. 

Originally posted by chryses

Like a lot of gamers on this site I have been playing MMO's for over 10 years and overall the experience I have had has been a good one.  However in recent years I have become increasingly concerned of the mass marketing, mass hype and mass promises firms are coming out with and only to deliver a bugged, inadequate  game that leaves a sour taste in the mouth.  As the years roll on and another major release is launched and does not come close to expectations I have become a pessimistic and unforgiving gamer.  Then I see more announcements that makes me sit up with excitement, Stargate Worlds, Star Trek and Star Wars the Old Republic but for me I can't help but think that these 3 games will go the same route as Vanguard, AoC and WAR etc.  Great fun for 2-4 weeks but as you scratch away the surface you see the same mechanics with a different wrapping. 

Its like your mum trying to make you eat vegetables as a child and telling you the pie, mash potatoes, pudding or casserole are all different but once you are a few bites in you realise its the same crap you ate the day before and spit it out in disgust.

So is the next big MMO coming from a firm with hundreds of employees or an Indie firm plugging away in a cramped office in the eastern block or sunny Greece?  I for one are keeping a very close eye on the Indie firms.  Its my prediction that the next generation MMO will be delivered by one of these firms as they are not bound to deliver a game that 'must' pull in 750k subs or please the common public even.  They are focusing on a mature audience that enjoys PvP, the consequences of PvP and are able to create a guild and make their mark without being hand held throughout the whole process.  

Yes I am excited about Stargate, Star Trek and Star Wars but my expectations are low.  For me the next MMO to revolutionise this market will rise from an Indie firm.  Prediction only but one I strongly believe in.

 

 

Darkfall will be succes if they deliver im 100% sure off that, but its for nich market hardcore only who love sandbox and full loot pvp.
 

The games you mentioned are just same ol same ol big IP´S but themepark, i think we already have plenty of those and only one is succefull wow, so these 3 will be nich in a mass market type of game then its a fail:P

 Hmm, this self-distributing made ma laugh. Not distributing is actually way better! Games only cost $20 when they puyblish their own game, and you buy it from their website, not in stores. Which is how much devs get for selling a copy of their game, the other $30 is because of the stores, transport, etc. 

So what do you prefer? A small self-publishing company, asking $20, or a big company charging $50? Well.. I'm saying big companies now, Guild Wars is only $20 from the online store too. :) 

Edit; just want to point you to a good example, which I think deserves more players! Try looking up Saga, great game, indie, very original, and somewhat free to play. You'll have to pay $20 for the full game later though. :)

Originally posted by Evasia

Originally posted by chryses

Like a lot of gamers on this site I have been playing MMO's for over 10 years and overall the experience I have had has been a good one.  However in recent years I have become increasingly concerned of the mass marketing, mass hype and mass promises firms are coming out with an