General Discussion

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Then we got two announcements.  Number 1: MIssion architect will be delayed and will not come out for Issue 13 as originally advertised.  Number 2: The game is going to undergo a complete revamp with the hope of making it more appealing to new players.

MY

EYES

ARE

BURNING!!!

Originally posted by Bladin

This may just be silly, but if someones flying and ccing you and your team, why not you know, work together and cc/kill him first?

Hmm well, this is only one example of the new system being out of whack, and that's only one of many issues I'm highlighting.  It doesn't address the sync bug issue, that it was ignored in beta, the mission architect being pushed back in favour of the game revamp, or the comments about current players being expendable.  Hopefully all of those points are clear enough.

My concern and frustration most definitely isn't just about one specific issue, it's about a number of them that have all happened rather recently I'm afraid.

As for this one example of a problem in the new pvp system though.  Maybe it would help if you knew that I wasn't on a team, and neither was the dominator.  The point was that the new ruleset stripped away from melee toons all their former defenses and counterattacks to flying enemies with ranged holds.  Under the previous ruleset I could have done a number of things to counterattack or evade.  All of these options have been removed from the game or suppressed.  Also, by "options" I mean powers.  In these powers are millions of dollars worth of crafted enhancements that I either quested for, or bought for huge sums of ingame cash.  They are also, of course, crafted enhancement sets, and you may know that whole sets like this give your character bonuses and cost in some cases tens of millions of dollars, or more with some of the rare sets.

Saying that I should have a friend kill the dominator doesn't acknowledge that the new ruleset has rendered me helpless, and dependent on someone else's intervention to survive.  It's a very unwelcome change in the system of play.

It also doesn't acknowledge that much better solutions have been provided to the dev team (at their request) to address pvp issues, and that most of these solutions have been disregarded.

It also doesn't address that at one moment we're told we're being listened to, and the next, we're told that our feedback is irrelevant.  If joining a team, and having a friend kill the dominator would address all of these issues, I'd do it in a heart beat.

 P.S. Cool avatar :)

Originally posted by Torak

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!

SWG vets say so!!!!

 

Hmm well, I seem to remember saying some of the same things around the CU time period in SWG.  These changes are more of that magnitude than the NGE by the way.  I seem to remember a mass exodus from that particular game, around that particular issue.

I then seem to remember saying something about unwanted revamps and bugs around NGE time.  Something about the sky falling, and what do you know, it did -_^.

Tbh, I don't think most players like bugs that render them unable to move or interact with the map server for a month.  I think it's bad for business.  I also don't think it's good to advertise upcoming content, and then delay it in favour of an unwanted revamp.  Also bad for business if you ask me.  I also don't think it's a good idea to try to appeal to new players at the expense of your current players.  Then I think it just sours the deal even further when you first openly tell your current players that they're not relevant, and then later try to tell them that they really are.

I don't really know anyone that would vote for these things as desirable, and I do think they're bound to have a negative impact on this game's success.

I was playing pvp exclusively when they nerfed my wp/em tank's offense and reacted with total indifference to the public outcry, or worse disrespect, all while the c***sucking fanbois cheered their every move. 100+ hours and hundreds of millions of inf and for what? A toothless tiger? No thanks so I quit. You should prolly quit the game too, its not the game you paid for anyway, you'll prolly feel better and those bastards don't deserve another penny.

I guess they are thinking that Champions and DCU will kill them if they don't update the game.

But it can really go 2 ways, they can actually do a good job and make the game better or they might just kill the game off. If they believe it won't survive the launches of the other  games, NC soft probably thinks they have nothing to lose.

Selling a MMO always makes a mess, new people working on it have others idea. But no reason to panic yet, they could do a great job still... To worry is perfectly normal however.

Wow...  I thought even SOE learned enough from the NGE to at least not want to do more of them.

Guess it will take a second Titanic disaster resulting from a NGE to make the industry learn the lesson that players DO NOT LIKE MASSIVE CHANGES.  Nor do existing player bases like being forsaken in the name of "attracting lots of new players".  

And all I can say is any company that hires an exec or manager from SOE is foolish.  With NCSoft being a public company, I suspect a shareholder suit for malfeasence coming, something I wish could have been done to SOE.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Torak

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!!

SWG vets say so!!!!

 

 

Hmm well, I seem to remember saying some of the same things around the CU time period in SWG.  These changes are more of that magnitude than the NGE by the way.  I seem to remember a mass exodus from that particular game, around that particular issue.

I then seem to remember saying something about unwanted revamps and bugs around NGE time.  Something about the sky falling, and what do you know, it did -_^.

Tbh, I don't think most players like bugs that render them unable to move or interact with the map server for a month.  I think it's bad for business.  I also don't think it's good to advertise upcoming content, and then delay it in favour of an unwanted revamp.  Also bad for business if you ask me.  I also don't think it's a good idea to try to appeal to new players at the expense of your current players.  Then I think it just sours the deal even further when you first openly tell your current players that they're not relevant, and then later try to tell them that they really are.

I don't really know anyone that would vote for these things as desirable, and I do think they're bound to have a negative impact on this game's success.

Wow, Arc, this IS sounding more and more like the NGE. Especially from the responses you are getting from the people supporting NCSoft.

Obviously, if they do what you are saying they want to do, like the NGE, they will fail. Amazing, the egos in this industry are only outmatched by the ignorance supporting those egos.

First, I'd like to say that I've been playing CoX off and on since beta.

Second, I would like to say that no one who has played CoX extensively should be the least bit surprised at the changes that are coming or proposed.

Cryptic, or more specifically, Jack Emmert, changed the play mechanics of the entire game not once, but twice after it had been released for about a year, starting around Issue 4.

The first round of changes was made specifically to address PvP (even though it was stated that PvP changes would not affect PvE). They included changes to power sets, recharge rates, levels of defense and damage mitigation, as well as the suppression of travel powers.

All completely unnecessary changes. Even for PvP, the changes were unnecessary. They were made largely due to the complaining (read whining) of subscribers who were playing largely support classes (controllers and defenders, to a large extent) who realized that their viability in PvP was limited against specific classes.

As was already pointed out, a large number of subscribers left the game as a result.

The second major round of changes was made to the enhancement system, which Cryptic called "enhancement diversification" (ED).

There were two major end results of these rounds of what were essentially nerfs.

The first result was that the subscriber ended up being vastly less "heroic".

The second result was that the controller class, which was formerly a support class / hybrid is probably the most powerful class in the game.

ED was supposed to be a method to increase the use of enhancements that were rarely slotted into a specific power set by forcing the player to slot enhancements they never wanted.

It was also supposed to set up CoX for the new Invention system.

The first groups of players who tested these systems and found them unnecessary and debilitating to some of the classes were shouted down, told they were idiots, told they were over-reacting, etc.

Changes that were supposed to improve the overall CoX system and make PvP more viable basically resulted in PvP arenas and zones being largely ghost towns.

So I and many others stopped our subs to CoX as a result.

I decided to come back after the Invention system was implemented because I had been told that Inventions basically made up for the idiotic, short-sighted, and ham-fisted ED.

Sort of; if you wanted to grind out the influence and/or instances and missions that provide the materials or new enhancements themselves.

So now they have a new round of changes.

Good. I hope the subscribers who thought the powerset changes, travel suppression, and ED were a good idea are well and truly pissed off; those idiotic changes were what led to the necessity of the Invention system, instead of the benefit of it, which should have been Cryptic / NCSoft's goal.

The Invention system should have been an augmentation and improvement to the existing enhancement system, and they should have created missions and events to challenge those more powerful players who pursued and ground out invention enhancements.

So now I hope some of the subscribers who endorsed those previous system changes are enjoying some frustration right now. They deserve it.

There was nothing wrong with the system that existed on release, barring a few minor power changes. Every system they've introduced since could have been built on that solid foundation, instead of jacking up the entire system a year after release.

I had two level 50s that basically became obsolete after those first game mechanics changes. Yes, it hurts.

Maybe if more players would have been a little bit more far-sighted and thought through the implications of those changes rather than just blindly spouting the CoX party line, the CoX team wouldn't feel like they could keep getting away with this BS.

But no; they didn't, and here you are.

So suck it up; this is nothing new for CoX, it's just more of the same.

It's a shame, because on release the game was just so damn much fun; fast, frenzied, fun to level, interesting missions. Now, more often than not, it feels more like work and less like fun.