General Discussion

Leveling, most MMOs have it, but why?

In a large number of games, leveling is just something you have to do.  Go here, talk to this person, kill this, repeat x1000.  It's overdone, boring, and just plain lazy on the developers part.  My personal opinion is that the level system is only in games to grab more money out of the player.  Make them pay a month or two before they hit max level and realize that it wasn't worth it.

I'm one of the MMO players that could care less about the story/lore in an MMO.  One thing that keeps me away from some games is leveling times.  If I know that I'm going to have to spend a month doing quests and grinds that have very little effect on how my character turns out in the end level I won't even start.

So what do you think about leveling? 

Fun and rewarding gameplay experience?

Ploy put into games by devs to grab money and mask the lack of end game content?

Just something you have to do, don't question it! ?

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Leveling, most MMOs have it, but why?

In a large number of games, leveling is just something you have to do.  Go here, talk to this person, kill this, repeat x1000.  It's overdone, boring, and just plain lazy on the developers part.  My personal opinion is that the level system is only in games to grab more money out of the player.  Make them pay a month or two before they hit max level and realize that it wasn't worth it.

I'm one of the MMO players that could care less about the story/lore in an MMO.  One thing that keeps me away from some games is leveling times.  If I know that I'm going to have to spend a month doing quests and grinds that have very little effect on how my character turns out in the end level I won't even start.

 

So what do you think about leveling? 

 

Fun and rewarding gameplay experience?

Ploy put into games by devs to grab money and mask the lack of end game content?

Just something you have to do, don't question it! ?

Personally, I have always believed the exact opposite.  Once I get to the end game, I consider the game mostly over.  It is the avatar progression that I find interesting.  Endgame content seems to be composed of mainly chasing your tail.  You work and work for a few shiny baubles that are going to be absolutely meaningless come the next expansion.

Originally posted by Kyntor

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Leveling, most MMOs have it, but why?

In a large number of games, leveling is just something you have to do.  Go here, talk to this person, kill this, repeat x1000.  It's overdone, boring, and just plain lazy on the developers part.  My personal opinion is that the level system is only in games to grab more money out of the player.  Make them pay a month or two before they hit max level and realize that it wasn't worth it.

I'm one of the MMO players that could care less about the story/lore in an MMO.  One thing that keeps me away from some games is leveling times.  If I know that I'm going to have to spend a month doing quests and grinds that have very little effect on how my character turns out in the end level I won't even start.

 

So what do you think about leveling? 

 

Fun and rewarding gameplay experience?

Ploy put into games by devs to grab money and mask the lack of end game content?

Just something you have to do, don't question it! ?

 

Personally, I have always believed the exact opposite.  Once I get to the end game, I consider the game mostly over.  It is the avatar progression that I find interesting.  Endgame content seems to be composed of mainly chasing your tail.  You work and work for a few shiny baubles that are going to be absolutely meaningless come the next expansion.

 

So do you only play MMOs a couple months max?

I'm a pvper at heart.  The first thing I look for when researching an MMO is the pvp.  The best pvp is always at the max level, combat is balanced at the high levels.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

So do you only play MMOs a couple months max?

I'm a pvper at heart.  The first thing I look for when researching an MMO is the pvp.  The best pvp is always at the max level, combat is balanced at the high levels.

Actually, I normally play MMORPGs for extended periods of time.  I won't get into one if I think it is only going to last a couple of months.

I do play the endgame, but I believe that a lot of it is a waste.  A good portion of my enjoyment of a game ends when my avatar's progression ends.  I prefer games that has no endgame at all (there are very few).

I agree with you about balance though.  PVP content has to be very carefully balanced or it is no fun.  However, I do believe that PVP can be properly balanced without an endgame.

Originally posted by Kyntor

Originally posted by Sabiancym

So do you only play MMOs a couple months max?

I'm a pvper at heart.  The first thing I look for when researching an MMO is the pvp.  The best pvp is always at the max level, combat is balanced at the high levels.

 

Actually, I normally play MMORPGs for extended periods of time.  I won't get into one if I think it is only going to last a couple of months.

I do play the endgame, but I believe that a lot of it is a waste.  A good portion of my enjoyment of a game ends when my avatar's progression ends.  I prefer games that has no endgame at all (there are very few).

I agree with you about balance though.  PVP content has to be very carefully balanced or it is no fun.  However, I do believe that PVP can be properly balanced without an endgame.

 

Do you believe character progression ends at the max level?  Or when you have all the best gear?  Content finished?

Leveling is a way to simulate progression. In real life, an experinced soldier have a higher chanse to survive a war then FNG (F-n new guy).

However leveling is not really a good way, it comes from the 70s and the classic Gygax game "Dungeons and Dragons". Problem is that once you hit the cap, nothing more really happens. You can still get better gear off course but the character in itself kinda stops. Some games have alternative progressions also, like AA in EQ2 but still, it doesn't happen much after you reach max.

In the pen and paper world, we soon got non level based system, like Basic roleplaying (Runequest and many other games, fucuses on skill progression, you really don't get more HP) and Warhammer FRPG (Uses careers, you move between them and get better, get your char very customized).

There are other pen and paper system like Whitewolf storytellers system (most known for Vampire) and the system from "Shadowrun" and Kevin Simbiedas "Palladium" system (It got levels too but the system differs a lot from what we see in online gaming, you have to try it to see the difference).

All these system have different ways of character progression. So why is D&D the only system we see in online games? It is not because it is best or most realistic, more the opposite but it is the system where players and up as demi gods and can kill armies of lvl1s.

Personally I really want something without levels an I really look forward to "World of darkness online".

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Leveling, most MMOs have it, but why?

In a large number of games, leveling is just something you have to do.  Go here, talk to this person, kill this, repeat x1000.  It's overdone, boring, and just plain lazy on the developers part.  My personal opinion is that the level system is only in games to grab more money out of the player.  Make them pay a month or two before they hit max level and realize that it wasn't worth it.

I'm one of the MMO players that could care less about the story/lore in an MMO.  One thing that keeps me away from some games is leveling times.  If I know that I'm going to have to spend a month doing quests and grinds that have very little effect on how my character turns out in the end level I won't even start.

 

So what do you think about leveling? 

 

Fun and rewarding gameplay experience?

Ploy put into games by devs to grab money and mask the lack of end game content?

Just something you have to do, don't question it! ?

I 100% agree with you, the current level standard is a complete waste of time and only put in to make you waste your time, which allows companies to get a couple of free monthly payments before you hit the real game at max level. But I think that this only feels this way now because of the leveling systems used. In SWG, I enjoyed grinding out skill boxes, changing my character. The progression felt real, and the character was completely customized to fit me. The current systems used have absolutely no customization, so it doesn't feel like progression at all, it just feels like a waste of time. It's like riding a slow scenic train ride, you follow the path the developers give you, you see a few things, then when it's over you are at the exact same place as everyone else(ala eveyone in your "class" is exactly the same).

If there was more ingenuity in character progression in current MMORPGs, progressing could be fun, but instead it's simply boring and a pointless time waster.

Originally posted by Loke666

So why is D&D the only system we see in online games?

That's easy.  Because it's the easiest system for devs to use and the most proven when it comes to keeping sheep, I mean players, on the hook to milk them for maximum profit.

If 99.9% of MMOs were made into single player games they could be laughed into oblivion for being such piles of sh*t yet somehow trudging through that same horrible and worthless treadmill with other people makes it worthwhile for most "MMOers."

It's pathetic, IMO.