Final Fantasy XI

So today my ls and I decided to get a party together and at first we had a monk as tank. I was the WHM and we had 3 smn and a rdm.  Then the mnk left and we got a bst and I died. Then we had a blm 2 whm 2 bst and a smn I died again.

One of the people said they said it works all the time without a tank.  I died 4 times while doing this my taru gets hate from even using Cure 1.  Im not buying that you can have a good group without having a good tank so that the Whm isn't constantly healing and getting hate with no provoke to keep mobs of me.

If anyone has done this and it worked I just dont' see how you got it to work.

Hmmm I've never been in a party without *some* form of tanking that didn't result in deaths, or several close calls.

The closest I've seen is basically where 2 or 3 members are able to sorta bounce aggro around between them; usually via use of /NIN. I've "off-tanked" a few times as DRG/SAM, using Seigan > Third Eye to quasi blink-tank. But that's only been to allow the main tank time to re-cast Ichi or Ni.

Only time I've ever really had to do that is when we had a ninja tanking who was really lazy about it (voke every 30 seconds, an occasional WS, and that's it.. no ninjitsu, etc).

Seldom ever had that problem with a PLD; when I have it was because they were too lazy (or just too crappy) to do their job well.

But as for a party with no tank at all? Hmm.. can't say I've ever experienced that myself.

there kieing to you or don't know what there doing someone or something has to  contorl hate other wisw casters die and die fast  only time ive seen it work is with a powerleveler and most of time the powerlevel would get hate

Originally posted by xantho10

there kieing to you or don't know what there doing someone or something has to  contorl hate other wisw casters die and die fast  only time ive seen it work is with a powerleveler and most of time the powerlevel would get hate

I hate power-levelers.

Just thought I'd share that :)

The funny thing was that one of the guys that I was partying with said the reason why I was dying because my gear wasn't good enough. I was a lvl 24 whm and I just recently came back to this game.  I had on a lvl 1 shirt that game me +1 to MP gain when rested and a bunch of other MND gear.  So my defence wasn't all that great  but I could take like 3 hits before I would die.  I dont think it would have mattered that much anyways if I had a higher def because I would get aggro pretty much every time I cured people.  

But when I was in parties with my whm before with the same gear I hardly ever died because I hardly ever got hit cuz there were Tanks to control the aggro.

Originally posted by cukimunga

The funny thing was that one of the guys that I was partying with said the reason why I was dying because my gear wasn't good enough. I was a lvl 24 whm and I just recently came back to this game.  I had on a lvl 1 shirt that game me +1 to MP gain when rested and a bunch of other MND gear.  So my defence wasn't all that great  but I could take like 3 hits before I would die.  I dont think it would have mattered that much anyways if I had a higher def because I would get aggro pretty much every time I cured people.  

 

But when I was in parties with my whm before with the same gear I hardly ever died because I hardly ever got hit cuz there were Tanks to control the aggro.

Whoever told you ,you died because of your gear is a total noob ,and you can  tell them i said so.Gear means VERY little in FFXI,the biggest attribute to gear in FFXI is for accuracy ,all else means little[cept thf and DEX].If you are a mage and a taru at that,you cannot take anymore than maybe 2-3 hits and your dead.

Even if they wanted to debate your gear,you would have gear related to better heals or better enfeebs or buffs,NONE of witch relates to taking hits .The next time they want to talk gear,ask them why RMT can level up using level 1 gear as a level 30/40/50?and i have seen it MANY times,all the rmt wearing that green noob gear.

A lot of players like to talk about not needing a tank,because of dncrs or whatever,but the fact is that they still have to be tanking in some fashion,meaning they need some form of hate control.

If there is something that breaks the mold ,i have probably done it.for example,using the MNK is only doable because of his very high hit points.The fight can not go on long because eventually those HP will be very low causing massive heals and hate loss.One subtle thing to get  it started is having the tank PULL,this will at least have the hate in the right spot to start and will give the healer a chance to heal a bit.You will also need support healing with a poor tank because that way you can alternate heal,one healer WILL get the hate and probably die.Provoke is a VERY powerful tool,so having a second player with Provoke will take the heat off of the MNK tank and excessive heals by the healer.

There are other things when considering there is no tanks.You can get a summoner,they have avatars that can really help a player/party with stuff like blinks and heals and if things look bad there 2 hour is potent.

I remember a long time ago... you used to be able to full up with all BLM and just rock... haha I think i'm crazy though. I heard something like that sometime 2 years ago when I played.

Originally posted by edardz

I remember a long time ago... you used to be able to full up with all BLM and just rock... haha I think i'm crazy though. I heard something like that sometime 2 years ago when I played.

Mana burn parties.  Still very doable and infact, my LS is starting a static party for exactly this.

@ OP.  You should be able to play WHM naked for pretty much the first 30 levels.  No tank is going to be death.  Whoever told you otherwise needs to find their way to your blist because they're gonna wind up in your party again and you're just going to die to their stupidity again.  A Tarutaru, like previously stated can have the best +1 gear and you're going down in about 3 hits.  Because, again, like previously stated your gear wont be good for defense, just for +MND or +MP or +rMP.  Once you get out of the jungle is when your gear is really gonna make that much of a difference in what you're doing.  And i'm serious as hell that you should put this guy on your blist.  I have about 70 people on mine because, well, people are just stupid.

Well Considering Ninja was originally ment to be an enfeeb/DD and Samurai was suposed to be the tank...

My experience last night in a level 42 sync party was great. The party setup was (Elvaan WHM Me)

Samurai, Dragoon, Red Mage, THF, DRK,  our party did great most of the 4 hours we stayed together.

The samurai Tanked and the Dragoon back uped tanked.  We got well over 13,000 exp in thsoe 4 hours which is not bad for that level. I belive I leveled twice. and got about 1/2 way into my next level. I was the 42. So now I am 44 1/2

I think tanks are useful and as a growing WHM and veteran Dragoon, I can say that a party without a tank is possible, and not all that hard if there is backup healing. Maybe it was just because Samurai really was a tank originally planned. But who knows, maybe we were just a solid group that played on each other's streinghts. Anyways Tanks for me are not a must have, A samurai can tank just as good as a warrior/monk and I have partied with warrior/monk as tank even up in the mid 60s. So its doable and honestly not that hard, Its peoples own mind that keeps them from experimenting t