EVE Online

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Originally posted by shinkan
Well your logic here is somewhat flawed.

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Nope, his logic isn't flawed.

To understand why sanctioned rmt via gtc is a lot better than ebay, just get out a pencil and a sheet of paper.
Now create a little flowchart of who gets isk/real money/gtc, and who makes real money/isk/gains time.
Then factor in that there are people who have time, but no money (students for example), and that there are people with less time but rl money, and then there are people who want to make rl money out of isk.

What you will see, after you are done, is why gtc sales are a lot better than simple itemshops or ebay.

(Hint: It has something to do with the roles of buyer/seller, and the people who profit from it.)

RMT is RMT no matter how you dress it up. It allows people who can't be bothered to play the game and people who shouldn't be playing it to do this and make the game harder for those who play the game in honest way, avoiding RMT.

On-line gaming is not a life-saving product and if someone can't afford it, he/she should probably be getting along without it. On the other hand if someone can't spend time to play, why the hell he should be doing well in the game? After all, it's not a single player game, when you can do what you want and no one cares; it's a game when you interact with a lot of players and any rule bending makes the game less fair for other people. RMT just throws the whole concepr of the "virtual world" out of the window. No longer the in-game success of a charachter is measured by his in-game performance. CCP could just as well open an on-line item shop. Why spend time and mine/run missions, or whatever for that drednought when you can just use your credit card to buy it?

Thats not a bad idea CCP We Want ato by fake iteams For REAL Money!!!!!!!

edit - on topic

Well I already posted I'm for GTC since I've purchased it back when it was 30 day twice. I stopped when the prices got hiked. Not sure what they are now but back in my time it was cheap

I also like it because it allowed my friends that were low on real life cash to continue playing. It also makes it casual to buy a subscription for a friend. You can just go online, buy GTC, then apply it to their account

Also, it allows a good clever businessman (ingame) to reap the rewards in real life and get other people to buy their subscription

Its a win-win too me, a no brainer. I know people dont agree here and there but they probably dont play EVE in the first place. Cause every true EVE player I knew ingame liked knowing one day in a pinch they could get their sub paid by another

Plus, CCP deals harshly with people that buy isk illegally. They will dock your account and make you go negative. That will make the people that get ISK illegal be unplayable.You cant insure your character or do anything. You're totally hosed.

I think that you can play for free by busting your hump in the game is actually a really cool feature. I don't play that hard or that much to take advantage of it, but I think its one of those things that sets EvE apart from the other games.

Originally posted by Moghidin

RMT is RMT no matter how you dress it up.

This is true, but I've only seen two approaches to RMT that actually work.

The first is the WoW way - make in-game money worthless by making it so you can't buy anything that's highly  desirable with in-game currency, and making said currency easy enough to farm that nobody has a use for an RMT dealer.

In a game like Eve, that approach would never work.  So instead it's been worked into the in-game economy in a manner that cuts the RMT seller out of the loop, doesn't break the economy, and ensures CCP still gets a piece of the pie.  I think it's a good system for what it's designed for, as I can't think of any feasible method to actually stamp out an RMT black market in an effective manner without going the WoW route.

Originally posted by x_rast_x

Originally posted by Moghidin

RMT is RMT no matter how you dress it up.

This is true, but I've only seen two approaches to RMT that actually work.

The first is the WoW way - make in-game money worthless by making it so you can't buy anything that's highly  desirable with in-game currency, and making said currency easy enough to farm that nobody has a use for an RMT dealer.

In a game like Eve, that approach would never work.  So instead it's been worked into the in-game economy in a manner that cuts the RMT seller out of the loop, doesn't break the economy, and ensures CCP still gets a piece of the pie.  I think it's a good system for what it's designed for, as I can't think of any feasible method to actually stamp out an RMT black market in an effective manner without going the WoW route.

Maybe it is true what you say. But I would very much want to hear further why ingame money is worthless in WoW?

A quick thougth from me would be all the various farming runs/raid for gear that are sold for ingame gold. I mean it can't be unknown for you that guilds sell loot by offering places in raids in instances they have on farm. Not to mention all other goldsinks. Easy to get gold by honest means, means nothing really.

I was under the impression that there is alot of goldseller, still, in WoW.

(Just a side note.)

Originally posted by Orphes 

Maybe it is true what you say. But I would very much want to hear further why ingame money is worthless in WoW?

I played WoW from release to about halfway through TBC, so my information may be somewhat out of date, but bear with me.

Because in WoW you can't buy (good) gear - which is what the game is all about.  You have to earn it in the Arena or go raid for it.  And once you have it you can't pass it on.

The only things you can buy with in-game money that people actually want is BOE gear for alts (which is rubbish in the big scheme of things), some basic crafting supplies, and enchanting supplies.

Now, that still leaves some value to in-game currency since some of the enchants aren't cheap and some classes have a hard time farming on their own (I was a healer of various stripes my entire stay in WoW so I know how this is...).  But, Blizzard introduced the daily quests, which let you farm up stupid amounts of gold even on the lowest DPS characters.

So now, the gold sellers are providing a service that has little value because you can't buy the really good stuff with gold and for the kinda good stuff people can farm their own gold without a huge time investment.

To me, it seems RMT was at its worst in WoW when they introduced some of the harder classic-WoW repp grinds - Thorium Brotherhood and Cenarion Circle.  Both  required huge amounts of somewhat-rare but not soulbound items to rep up with, the rewards were good, and so all of the above didn't really apply.  People could and did buy gold to buy crap to turn in to get their rep up quickly.  I think Blizzard realized that is what was happening and that's why rep grinds in TBC were generally easier and either had quickly outclassed rewards or didn't utilize non-bound turn-ins past honored, if they used them at all.

Anyway, this is just my opinion.  And none of this would apply in any way, shape, or form to a game like Eve, which is why I approve of the way they've handled RMT.  Given the game they have, trying to work it in as one economic activity among many is about the best we can hope for.

It's naive to think that GTCs have destroyed sweatshop farming or botting. CCP are just merely cashing in on something that everyone agrees is bad, but is also very hard to eradicate and tackle.  But this thread is not about the GTCs AFAIK, it's about players who need RMT to do well in the game. As I said GTCs are RMT, doesn't matter if CCP are profiting from that or not. From MMORPG point of view, buying GTCs and buying ISK from e-bay is the same thing - it's allowing out of game resource to have a direct impact on the in-game world.