Darkfall

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Here's what other have to say about skill systems vs LEVEL based systems.

the consensus seems to be that you can LEVEL in a class system or a SKILL system. The difference is whether you have a ClASS system, or SKILL system.

If you earn skill points and spend them on skills, it's still a SKILL system, and not a CLASS system.

 

That is true as long as there is not a class. If I am a White Mage then I am a class regardless if I can spend skill points because I must  remain within the boundries of a White mage then it is not a pure class system it is a hybrid that still spends it's main focus on class.

 

Which is why Dameonkdoesn't make much sense.

He's saying that only Darkfall is a skill system, because you raise skills by using them, but a system where you spend points on skills is a level system.

But won't you have skill LEVELS in Darkfall?

What's your sword skill?

What's your fireball skill?

Aren't you going to say, level 3, or level 100? How does it matter how it got to that level? Either way it's a skill system.

With a Level system, you pick a class, adn then as you increase in level, the game picks your new abilities for you, or gives you a small list to choose from bases on yoru class.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Here's what other have to say about skill systems vs LEVEL based systems.

the consensus seems to be that you can LEVEL in a class system or a SKILL system. The difference is whether you have a ClASS system, or SKILL system.

If you earn skill points and spend them on skills, it's still a SKILL system, and not a CLASS system.

 

That is true as long as there is not a class. If I am a White Mage then I am a class regardless if I can spend skill points because I must  remain within the boundries of a White mage then it is not a pure class system it is a hybrid that still spends it's main focus on class.

 

 

Which is why Dameonkdoesn't make much sense.

He's saying that only Darkfall is a skill system, because you raise skills by using them, but a system where you spend points on skills is a level system.

But won't you have skill LEVELS in Darkfall?

What's your sword skill?

What's your fireball skill?

Aren't you going to say, level 3, or level 100? How does it matter how it got to that level? Either way it's a skill system.

With a Level system, you pick a class, adn then as you increase in level, the game picks your new abilities for you, or gives you a small list to choose from bases on yoru class.

 

Honestly I am not clear on what you are getting at.

It's a skill point system, you can have 100 skill points in sword or 50 points in Archery.... there isn't a level it's skill points.

Levels would be more like I am a level 9 warrior or I am a level 10 Druid.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

Which is why Dameonkdoesn't make much sense.

He's saying that only Darkfall is a skill system, because you raise skills by using them, but a system where you spend points on skills is a level system.

But won't you have skill LEVELS in Darkfall?

What's your sword skill?

What's your fireball skill?

Aren't you going to say, level 3, or level 100? How does it matter how it got to that level? Either way it's a skill system.

With a Level system, you pick a class, adn then as you increase in level, the game picks your new abilities for you, or gives you a small list to choose from bases on yoru class.

 

Not really.  I assume you have played WoW which has a limited nested skill system, you wouldn't say I have level 252 in 2 handed weapons would you?

I would say it's like the difference between analogue and digital.  Digital either it's on or it's off, with analogue there is much more subtle graduation.  Skill is still digital really but the incrementation is much more finely tuned.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Here's what other have to say about skill systems vs LEVEL based systems.

the consensus seems to be that you can LEVEL in a class system or a SKILL system. The difference is whether you have a ClASS system, or SKILL system.

If you earn skill points and spend them on skills, it's still a SKILL system, and not a CLASS system.

 

That is true as long as there is not a class. If I am a White Mage then I am a class regardless if I can spend skill points because I must  remain within the boundries of a White mage then it is not a pure class system it is a hybrid that still spends it's main focus on class.

 

 

Which is why Dameonk doesn't make much sense.

He's saying that only Darkfall is a skill system, because you raise skills by using them, but a system where you spend points on skills is a level system.

But won't you have skill LEVELS in Darkfall?

What's your sword skill?

What's your fireball skill?

Aren't you going to say, level 3, or level 100? How does it matter how it got to that level? Either way it's a skill system.

With a Level system, you pick a class, adn then as you increase in level, the game picks your new abilities for you, or gives you a small list to choose from bases on yoru class.

 

 

Honestly I am not clear on what you are getting at.

It's a skill point system, you can have 100 skill points in sword or 50 points in Archery.... there isn't a level it's skill points.

Levels would be more like I am a level 9 warrior or I am a level 10 Druid.

 

I agree. I was arguing with Damoenk. He said that unless your skills increase by using them, it's a level system, not a skill system. 

I was saying that both are skill systems, whether you spend skill points, or use a skill to get better at it, either way that's a skill system, not a level system.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I agree. I was arguing with Damoenk. He said that unless your skills increase by using them, it's a level system, not a skill system. 

I was saying that both are skill systems, whether you spend skill points, or use a skill to get better at it, either way that's a skill system, not a level system.

 

The problem I see with what you saying is when are you going to hand out the points?  If it's in batches then basically it's still a level system in all but name.  If it's gradually then who wants to stop every few minutes / seconds to readjust their skills?

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I agree. I was arguing with Damoenk. He said that unless your skills increase by using them, it's a level system, not a skill system. 

I was saying that both are skill systems, whether you spend skill points, or use a skill to get better at it, either way that's a skill system, not a level system.

 

The problem I see with what you saying is when are you going to hand out the points?  If it's in batches then basically it's still a level system in all but name.  If it's gradually then who wants to stop every few minutes / seconds to readjust their skills?

I don't see the difference in a use based system. You swing your sword 8,432,166 times, and your sword skill increases.

You want to get even better at sword skill? Swing your sword another 8,432,166 times. That's getting better in batches, right?

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

 I don't see the difference in a use based system. You swing your sword 8,432,166 times, and your sword skill increases.

You want to get even better at sword skill? Swing your sword another 8,432,166 times. That's getting better in batches, right?

Yes it is, but the batches very very small and only apply to the skill you are using, in fact it's not really a batch at all in my mind as you only get 1 point.  In my previous analogy it is like the analog system.  Have you played WoW? If so would you describe the weapons skill as a levelling system? Personally I wouldn't, except for the aspect of it being restricted by the main levelling system.

Explain how in your proposed system the aquiring and spending of points would work.  How often would you have the opportunity to spend points?  Would you get point one at a time or in batches of mulitiple points? I am only refering to video games not pen and paper.  

 Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

I agree. I was arguing with Damoenk. He said that unless your skills increase by using them, it's a level system, not a skill system. 

I was saying that both are skill systems, whether you spend skill points, or use a skill to get better at it, either way that's a skill system, not a level system.

The termonology to describe the different systems was never my point.  It was the mechanics behind the systems.  You can call the different advancement systems whatever you want, but in the end, one is based on gaining skills by using them, and the other is based on gaining XP to earn more skill points.

I think I might finally understand what you are trying to say... maybe.

I think what you are saying is that even though in Fallout 3, for example, you gain XP and levels to obtain more skill points your character does not inherently get stronger simply by gaining XP and levels.  You must apply the skill points you have gained through leveling for your character to progress.

The same could be said for Darkfall.  Even though you don't gain XP or levels, you could argue that gaining skills in Darkfall is similar to gaining XP.  The more "skill" xp you get, the better you get at using a sword, for example.

The difference is the execution.  Where Darkfall does not have any character levels or character XP that you gain, the other type of skill gain system does.  It has to have these or there would be no way to know when you should be gaining skill points.

Also, my personal opinion is the Darkfall system leads itself to a more natural gameplay experience.  Where you just go play the game instead of worrying about grinding XP and levels to gain more skill points.