General Discussion

Originally posted by chokepoint

Originally posted by pencilrick

PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.

 

I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.

 

doesn't make any sense to me.

I think that the reason is fairly obvious:  in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers.  People don't like to lose.  The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die.   This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.

Originally posted by Novaseeker

Originally posted by chokepoint

Originally posted by pencilrick

PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.

 

I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.

 

doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I think that the reason is fairly obvious:  in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers.  People don't like to lose.  The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die.   This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.

I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO. 

EDIT: Quote failed...

Originally posted by neonwire

The only successful mmos we have ever had that were designed around PvP were UO nearly 10 years ago and EVE so obviously we need more of them. The mmo market is saturated with PvE games.

People constantly say that PvP games dont work and yet every game that they refer to is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought. None of them were designed so that the players would fight against each other so of course their PvP aspects would fail. Does that mean that an mmo designed for it will fail? Obviously it doesnt.

I wish people would stop whining about ganking. This only happens in level based themepark games. In those games the person with the highest number over their head wins so of course you're gonna get ganked. Its an idiotic reason to be against PvP.

WAR is an epic failure but it is also a prime example of what happens when you "say" you are releasing a PvP game but actually release a level-based PvE game with PvP playpens attached (aka copying WoW).

I fail to see the point in releasing more PvE games just so that thousands of players can go online to play a giant single player game in massive co-op mode. I want realism and variety and dont see any point in restricting that. Thousands of players having the same experience, doing the same PvE quests and the same computer scripted encounters?

If a decent PvP game (apart from EvE) came along then all the naysayers would quickly realise that they were full of shit and would find it very hard to go back to the old fashioned boring single player mmos where everything is static and brainless.

We have had loads of PvE games that have failed and yet we keep seeing more of them and yet everyone seems to think that PvP games will fail. Well.......how about actually SEEING some fail then. The only other PvP mmo that I can think of which failed was Shadowbane. So thats 1 PvP mmo failure. Its an absolute joke that in 10 years only 3 noticeable PvP mmos have been released!

Thankfully there are some promising PvP games on the way such as Darkfall, Earthrise, Fallen Earth and Crusades. Finally I might be able to log onto an mmo and actually interact with people properly for once.

Fury was a 100% PVP game, it failed miserably, so has every other PvP game. There is a reason 80% of the population wants PvE and not pure PvP. People wants to have a chioce, and not just be the victim of yet another 8 year old ganker that happens to be 3 levels higher.

Originally posted by dayedreamer

This got me thinking in general if PVE only mmos are better than pvp only mmos.

"Better" is a matter of opinion, thus there's no right answer.

That PvE is way more popular than PvP is a simple fact, however, thus a pure PvE game will sell better and maintain higher subscriber numbers than a pure PvP game. Most people just suck at PvP, thus they don't enjoy it - everyone can beat at least some of the PvE stuff.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Novaseeker

Originally posted by chokepoint

Originally posted by pencilrick

PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.

 

I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.

 

doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I think that the reason is fairly obvious:  in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers.  People don't like to lose.  The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die.   This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.

 

I will never understand why people pay $15 a month to casually solo play an MMO. 

You don't understand because your statment is TOTALY wrong. PvE People CAN solo, but 99% DON'T. They enjoy Compleating quests, advancing the Story lines, and going through Dungeons with thier Friends and Guilds. I have nothing against PvP, I just don't care for it. As For witch would sell more, a PvP or PvE MMO? Well thats a no brainer. What do 99% of the MMO's gear to now? PvE {With a Little PvP to make others Happy}

Agree or disagree, Thats what sells, so thats what they make. Nothing wrong with PvP, It has a Following, but from what I see, Most PvP players think they are the majority. They are not, and the games that are made prove it.

The only real reason to play a pure PvP MMO is if there is some sort of potential for very large battles and some kind of startegy over multiple battlefields.

Something like instanced AoC style keeps would get old real fast and other games do that better for free.  Something like what WAR currently has is the same thing but because its campaign has no real strategy to it and you might as well do other games for free that do it better.

Something like Planetside has potential.  WAR is almost like Planetside but they messed up the details.

If we add in the RPG part it actually gets even worse.  There is a small set of people who constantly advocate for huge differences based on RPG stats so that they can create a pyramid affect and then sit at the top of the pyramid and kick everyone off of it.  While that is realistic, in that it is a sort of rich get richer/poor stay poor effect, it is not fun for the majority of the game.

The biggest problem with the RPG aspect of MMORPGs that want to be mostly PvP and still have progression is this pyramid scheme like effect.  That probably why WAR created its "tiers".  Of course the tiers in WAR are misguided in other ways so I can't say they are a good idea.

We will always have some that want PVE or PVP but there just is not enough.  Other parts of the world you can pull off just PVP they LOVE to fight and grind. Here lol its BETTER be easy is what we want..