While I think this overreacting, that doesn't mean there is significant leeway for abuse in how the new terms are stated.

I'm reminded of Vindictus (which I finally gave up on a few months ago). No weapons sold in cash shop (aside from some mid-level rental stuff, never was a factor anywhere near end-game), BUT they did sell runes to protect your weapons from destructing during enhancing and enchanting. They didn't get you any extra power, and you didn't have to use them, of course. You COULD just choose to keep destroying weapons and spend potentially months of grinding for the uncommon mats and/or gold, until the mysterious RNG gods finally give you the high-powered weapon you want.

And of course, they kept bumping up the enemy stats, making unboosted gear less and less effective. And increased the gains of the boosted weapons... but don't worry, they weren't selling anything you couldn't get from grinding!

Originally posted by 17Omega

Originally posted by Master10K

I find it funny how every time one of these threads emerges on GW2guru, an ArenaNet dev always has to come and reassure folk that the sky isn't falling again. When will Guild Wars 2 fanatics learn.

That's the thing, some people just like to jump the gun and assume that ANET are putting P2W stuff when they don't have the patience to wait till further clarification from ANET. 

I wonder how many times Martin Kerstein has /facepalmed, when seeing these kinds of threads pop-up.

Please stay on topic. Thanks.

Originally posted by pacov

The meaning is the same it's just differently worded. All that statement is saying is that there will be cosmetics.. its just they won't have any STATS.

No...the meaning isn't the same, and that is not what the new statement is saying. There is a VAST difference in the meaning, and implications, of the change in wording. 

The old statement was worded to give the impression that everything for sale via micro-transactions was purely cosmetic...i.e. no stats, just for looks.

The new statement is worded to give the impression that everything for sale via micro-transactions will also be available through playing the game...i.e. items in the store CAN (and will, or else they wouldn't have changed the wording) have stats, but that there will be no "unique" items being sold. In other words, if you don't feel like putting in the time to kill "Super Raid Boss A", you could, potentially, buy the item off the store if you so wish....but hey, you could still get it through playing so it's ok. Amirite?

Originally posted by teddyboy420

Originally posted by pacov

The meaning is the same it's just differently worded. All that statement is saying is that there will be cosmetics.. its just they won't have any STATS.

No...the meaning isn't the same, and that is not what the new statement is saying. There is a VAST difference in the meaning, and implications, of the change in wording. 

 

The old statement was worded to give the impression that everything for sale via micro-transactions was purely cosmetic...i.e. no stats, just for looks.

 

The new statement is worded to give the impression that everything for sale via micro-transactions will also be available through playing the game...i.e. items in the store CAN (and will, or else they wouldn't have changed the wording) have stats, but that there will be no "unique" items being sold. In other words, if you don't feel like putting in the time to kill "Super Raid Boss A", you could, potentially, buy the item off the store if you so wish....but hey, you could still get it through playing so it's ok. Amirite?

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1113375&postcount=173

Originally posted by ice-vortex

Originally posted by Eliandal
[Mod Edit]

 

You can get anything in the store in any f2p game.

so you are just saying that GW2 will have pay 2 win. We get yout message, and its plain wrong. None of the sentences you posted on OP says they are going to sell weapons and armors with stats to give advantages to cash shoppers... you just dont like GW2 and thats fine as long as you dont make up wrong ideas and post em without reason. Because theres no subscription doesnt mean it has to have pay 2 win cash shop. Im not a GW fanboy but im waiting for GW2 and hoping ANET teach the sub based mmo developers that subscriptions equaled quality over free games years ago, but not anymore. We have witnessed all the lame sub based mmos that have been launching over the past few years... so yeah, subscriptions are not the way to go anymore. I support box + expansion sales, no subscriptions and not pay to win either

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by teddyboy420

Originally posted by pacov

The meaning is the same it's just differently worded. All that statement is saying is that there will be cosmetics.. its just they won't have any STATS.

No...the meaning isn't the same, and that is not what the new statement is saying. There is a VAST difference in the meaning, and implications, of the change in wording. 

 

The old statement was worded to give the impression that everything for sale via micro-transactions was purely cosmetic...i.e. no stats, just for looks.

 

The new statement is worded to give the impression that everything for sale via micro-transactions will also be available through playing the game...i.e. items in the store CAN (and will, or else they wouldn't have changed the wording) have stats, but that there will be no "unique" items being sold. In other words, if you don't feel like putting in the time to kill "Super Raid Boss A", you could, potentially, buy the item off the store if you so wish....but hey, you could still get it through playing so it's ok. Amirite?

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1113375&postcount=173

Yeah, of course a rep is going to come on the forums and try to calm things down, but that doesn't change that this is clearly a shift in what will be in the store. Even that statement you linked to is saying that things changed, albeit in a very clever way by repeating the sentiment in the new choice of words, only after telling everyone that everything is ok, and that the change in wording is for the best and to clarify their position.

But the fact remains, there is a clear change in meaning in those two statements. There is a clear difference in 'items sold will be purely cosmetic', and 'items sold will also be obtained through investing your time playing the game'.

Let's see....I dint play really play much GW, but maybe you played WoW?

Well, the old statement was like saying:

"We're only going to sell cosmetic pets, maybe a mount or 3, and some appearance-only armor."

This new statement can be interpreted to say:

"We're only going to sell things you can also get from questing, raiding, or crafting. For example, Ragnaros, a raid-boss only seen at the end of hours, and hours of end-game raid content drops an "Axe of Fiery Death", if you like you can buy said Axe...but that's ok b/c we aren't offering anything that offers an advantage over anyone else b/c if they don't want to buy it they can invest hundreds of hours of time and achieve the same results."

The same slippery slope we've been seing everywhere....vague enough answers to leave the door open for whatever will bring in the most cash, regardless of what other paying customers may think.

Alarmist? Maybe. But you can't deny that the possibility for such a scenario is now possible with the newly reworded answer.

Originally posted by Master10K

I find it funny how every time one of these threads emerges on GW2guru, an ArenaNet dev always has to come and reassure folk that the sky isn't falling again. When will Guild Wars 2 fanatics learn.

 

"As usual, everybody just needs to calm down a bit. This change was done to actually make the wording easier to understand – seems like that was not the case.

But the statement in it is still the same: Nothing you will be able to buy in the in-game store will give you an advantage over people who are not buying anything. That is the baseline. "

(source)

 

Did anyone honestly had problems understanding the original statement? It was actually more precise and to the point stating >>> cosmetic items, as opposed to the new one which leaves room for anything obtainable in the game, including the best gear.

The problem is obtaining gear through CS that otherwise takes weeks of playing is an advantage so, they either need to revert back to the original statement or make up a new one, for the sake of the wording that is easier to understand.

So the conspiracy theorists are throwing another tin foil hat party, huh?  Well isn't that special.

---

Originally posted by Unlight
So the conspiracy theorists are throwing another tin foil hat party, huh?  Well isn't that special.

---

MT are becoming something online comunities are getting more and more worried about. Even with AN wording this can turn bad in a few quick snaps. Like a port system that lets you do quick travel with a click of the mouse. This would not be an advantage by the current wording but would players wait for you if it became common to buy them? And then become forced to buy them? I love the idea of free to play but I hope AN does not take the MT to far. 

"Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time."

And what's stopping them from making acquiring said goods and items through gameplay extremely tedious and difficult?

Nothing.

Well, good to find this out sooner rather than later.

Originally posted by Unlight

So the conspiracy theorists are throwing another tin foil hat party, huh?  Well isn't that special.

It's not so much a conspiracy as it is an expectation of a very consistant pattern of behavior when it comes to cash shops in MMOs.

Originally posted by Ceridith

"Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time."

 

And what's stopping them from making acquiring said goods and items through gameplay extremely tedious and difficult?

Nothing.

Well, good to find this out sooner rather than later.

I heard from my mates best friend who knows a guy at Arena-net, that they are actually going to make the cash shop obligatory if you want to get above level 50.  

Only you. Everyone else can play normally :)

Originally posted by Master10K

I find it funny how every time one of these threads emerges on GW2guru, an ArenaNet dev always has to come and reassure folk that the sky isn't falling again. When will Guild Wars 2 fanatics learn.

 

"As usual, everybody just needs to calm down a bit. This change was done to actually make the wording easier to understand – seems like that was not the case.

But the statement in it is still the same: Nothing you will be able to buy in the in-game store will give you an advantage over people who are not buying anything. That is the baseline. "

(source)

 

 I'm glad for the clarification but to be honest I was disappointed with the choice the wording.

The truth is that GW1 doesn't have Pay to Win, but it does have Pay to Skip (PVP skill and item unlock packs).

The change in wording definitely seemed like it was opening the door to allow Pay to Skip in GW2.  Hopefully the clarification really does mean that nothing will give you ANY sort of advantage, but to be honest, it's still a little too ambiguous for my tastes.  Though at least we know GW2 won't have PVP skill and item unlock packs (everything is unlocked).

I think we should all just wait and see and not get too worked up, but I know I'm going to be paying close attention to what is for sale in the store.

I think they need to make an example list of the items they plan on offering before the game is released. This way, if we don't like the direction of their cash shop we can avoid purchasing the game. I've trusted Anet so far, but i was lead to believe it was cosmetic items only. I may not agree with their interpretation of what would offer no advantage.

I just copied and pasted this from another site where I posted.

Without a doubt there will be armor and weapons available in the cash shop. Will it be more powerful than items in the game? Hell no. Anet will not make such a stupid mistake.

How will it be done? We do not know. Could be something similar to how HoM items will work is my guess. Also I am thinking that such items will most likely be unique to the cash shop and not found in the game.

---

Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time.

---

To me that sounds like I could farm a sword for 3 months, Or i could buy it in the shop in 1 minute.

Only difference was the time it took to aquire

Originally posted by Mellkor

 

---

 

Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time.

---

 

To me that sounds like I could farm a sword for 3 months, Or i could buy it in the shop in 1 minute.

Only difference was the time it took to aquire

I was thinking the same thing.

And in that case, it is an advantage.

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by Axllow18

Ok, well if the game turns out Pay to win don't play it? Seems fairly simple.

But considering this is a PvP centric game with things like esports in mind with server lists and such, I really can't see them selling power. That tends to run the major competitive crowd off.

There is no way that can happen. Every player is bumped to max level with max level gear, skills, and traits. So purchasing items for pvp doesn't work.

Which sounds incredibily dull to me.  I'm not a fan of OP gear that creates huge powergaps, but still like to see some incentive to craft and PvE for decent equipment to PvP with.