Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Can a GW2 fan explain to me why you have MMORPGs that sold a lot of boxes eventually shut down because they are no longer profitable if subscription fees do not matter?

I ask because in comparison to sub-based games, GW2 felt cheaply made, lacked the depth and breadth of content of a P2P MMORPG, and had a very short lifespan.  Just because GW2 has persistant areas outside of towns and outposts isn't enough to subside my fears that GW2 may end up the same way.

You've either mixed up your numbers

 

No, not everyone who objects to your views is being touchy, or otherwise defensive. Actually in this case it seems like you're refereing to bad experiences in Guild Wars 1 half the time. The rest was pure conjecture. Stuff you simply made up. Especially love how you refer to GW2 in past tense, as if you've bought it or something.

You accused me of trolling, tried to derail the conversation by pointing out a typo, and 2 posts later, you still haven't answered my question.

The conjecture was all on your behalf.  GW1 was a great game, but it is not a game that I felt deserved a subscription fee because it was not of the same quality as a game that has one.  Just to say what pops into my head, when I played,  the graphics were nice, but the gameworld didn't allow for much interaction (can't swim, can't open doors and thus can't explore buildings) animations were stiff, everyone looked the same, there wasn't a lot of draw to the game after having raised a character to level 20 aside from HoH PvP and GvG. 

GW1 is entirely irrelevant.  It hasn't had a major content update in close to 5 years, pick up PvP is absolutely dead, and it is pretty much only still played by diehard fans.  If you bring up seeing several players around in outposts, lets not forget the game only has a single server. 

[Mod Edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars:_Eye_of_the_North

they also release content thats free.

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Can a GW2 fan explain to me why you have MMORPGs that sold a lot of boxes eventually shut down because they are no longer profitable if subscription fees do not matter?

I ask because in comparison to sub-based games, GW2 felt cheaply made, lacked the depth and breadth of content of a P2P MMORPG, and had a very short lifespan.  Just because GW2 has persistant areas outside of towns and outposts isn't enough to subside my fears that GW2 may end up the same way.

You've either mixed up your numbers [Mod Edit]

 

No, not everyone who objects to your views is being touchy, or otherwise defensive. Actually in this case it seems like you're refereing to bad experiences in Guild Wars 1 half the time. The rest was pure conjecture. Stuff you simply made up. Especially love how you refer to GW2 in past tense, as if you've bought it or something.

You accused me of trolling, tried to derail the conversation by pointing out a typo, and 2 posts later, you still haven't answered my question.

The conjecture was all on your behalf.  GW1 was a great game, but it is not a game that I felt deserved a subscription fee because it was not of the same quality as a game that has one.  Just to say what pops into my head, when I played,  the graphics were nice, but the gameworld didn't allow for much interaction (can't swim, can't open doors and thus can't explore buildings) animations were stiff, everyone looked the same, there wasn't a lot of draw to the game after having raised a character to level 20 aside from HoH PvP and GvG. 

GW1 is entirely irrelevant.  It hasn't had a major content update in close to 5 years, pick up PvP is absolutely dead, and it is pretty much only still played by diehard fans.  If you bring up seeing several players around in outposts, lets not forget the game only has a single server. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars:_Eye_of_the_North

they also release content thats free.

[Mod Edit]

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Can a GW2 fan explain to me why you have MMORPGs that sold a lot of boxes eventually shut down because they are no longer profitable if subscription fees do not matter?

I ask because in comparison to sub-based games, GW2 felt cheaply made, lacked the depth and breadth of content of a P2P MMORPG, and had a very short lifespan.  Just because GW2 has persistant areas outside of towns and outposts isn't enough to subside my fears that GW2 may end up the same way.

You've either mixed up your numbers [mod edit]

No, not everyone who objects to your views is being touchy, or otherwise defensive. Actually in this case it seems like you're refereing to bad experiences in Guild Wars 1 half the time. The rest was pure conjecture. Stuff you simply made up. Especially love how you refer to GW2 in past tense, as if you've bought it or something.

You accused me of trolling, tried to derail the conversation by pointing out a typo, and 2 posts later, you still haven't answered my question.

The conjecture was all on your behalf.  GW1 was a great game, but it is not a game that I felt deserved a subscription fee because it was not of the same quality as a game that has one.  Just to say what pops into my head, when I played,  the graphics were nice, but the gameworld didn't allow for much interaction (can't swim, can't open doors and thus can't explore buildings) animations were stiff, everyone looked the same, there wasn't a lot of draw to the game after having raised a character to level 20 aside from HoH PvP and GvG. 

GW1 is entirely irrelevant.  It hasn't had a major content update in close to 5 years, pick up PvP is absolutely dead, and it is pretty much only still played by diehard fans.  If you bring up seeing several players around in outposts, lets not forget the game only has a single server. 

Here's my confused thought process on GW2 hype:

0) I'm confused about the GW2 hype

1) No monthly fee (for those without jobs)!  Awesome!  No grind (for those that hate that) yeah!  Dynamic quests.  Yeah!  RvRvR PVP Awesome!  GW2 gonna rock this world!

2) Wait a minute, most of those people who are most excited about GW2 also loved GW1

3) I personally thought GW1 was horrid.  Literally one of the worst games I've ever played (not trolling here, honestly)

4) Hmmm.  Now I'm not so sure about GW2.  Many of those hyping it loved a game I hated.

5) I'm confused again

so how does this involve the topic of sub fee's and no sub fee's?

I replied about the failed games who because of "lack of profit" closed their doors.

Subs are a thing of the past and should be, as prove, useless for us consumers.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by nerovipus32

You accused me of trolling, tried to derail the conversation by pointing out a typo, and 2 posts later, you still haven't answered my question.

The conjecture was all on your behalf.  GW1 was a great game, but it is not a game that I felt deserved a subscription fee because it was not of the same quality as a game that has one.  Just to say what pops into my head, when I played,  the graphics were nice, but the gameworld didn't allow for much interaction (can't swim, can't open doors and thus can't explore buildings) animations were stiff, everyone looked the same, there wasn't a lot of draw to the game after having raised a character to level 20 aside from HoH PvP and GvG. 

GW1 is entirely irrelevant.  It hasn't had a major content update in close to 5 years, pick up PvP is absolutely dead, and it is pretty much only still played by diehard fans.  If you bring up seeing several players around in outposts, lets not forget the game only has a single server. 

That's a lie. you are trolling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars:_Eye_of_the_North

they also release content thats free.

 

If it's such major updates, why haven't we seen any real coverage from mmorpg.com?

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/82/view/news/page/1/read/23473/Guild-Wars-Mikus-Tale-Winds-of-Change-Pt-3-.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/82/view/news/page/1/read/22065/Guild-Wars-Winds-of-Change-Update-Now-Live.html

Originally posted by phigety

so how does this involve the topic of sub fee's and no sub fee's?

 

I replied about the failed games who because of "lack of profit" closed their doors.

 

Subs are a thing of the past and should be, as prove, useless for us consumers.

I think he is in the camp that hated GW1 (I am in that camp).  He then connected the dots that it might be shoddy underfunded development that wasn't supported by monthly fees.  Then he worries about GW2.

I think that is his argument.  My post was just relating that the perceived quality of GW1 does impact how one feels about GW2, despit4e the fact they are different games.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

2) Wait a minute, most of those people who are most excited about GW2 also loved GW1

3) I personally thought GW1 was horrid.  Literally one of the worst games I've ever played (not trolling here, honestly)

4) Hmmm.  Now I'm not so sure about GW2.  Many of those hyping it loved a game I hated.

5) I'm confused again

well the majority of people I know who are "hyping" gw2 absolutely agree with you on GW 1.

I personal played GW and hated every second I spent in the game.  Most everyone I've gamed with in the guilds I've been in feel the same way about Guild Wars.   Clunky, Mechanical movements, just very limited.

GW2 on the other hand is offering everything nearly everyone has wanted in a game.   Most of the spotlight reviews I've seen by critical reviewers have proven its typically above and beyond anything they expected compared to anything on the current market.

That being said GW sucked, imo, was and is HORRIBLE. GW2 looks amazing, offers more than any game out or even expected for release, and on paper nothing can compete... Nothing.  and without a SUB hell ya!!!

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by nerovipus32

You accused me of trolling, tried to derail the conversation by pointing out a typo, and 2 posts later, you still haven't answered my question.

The conjecture was all on your behalf.  GW1 was a great game, but it is not a game that I felt deserved a subscription fee because it was not of the same quality as a game that has one.  Just to say what pops into my head, when I played,  the graphics were nice, but the gameworld didn't allow for much interaction (can't swim, can't open doors and thus can't explore buildings) animations were stiff, everyone looked the same, there wasn't a lot of draw to the game after having raised a character to level 20 aside from HoH PvP and GvG. 

GW1 is entirely irrelevant.  It hasn't had a major content update in close to 5 years, pick up PvP is absolutely dead, and it is pretty much only still played by diehard fans.  If you bring up seeing several players around in outposts, lets not forget the game only has a single server. 

That's a lie. you are trolling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars:_Eye_of_the_North

they also release content thats free.

 

If it's such major updates, why haven't we seen any real coverage from mmorpg.com?

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/82/view/news/page/1/read/23473/Guild-Wars-Mikus-Tale-Winds-of-Change-Pt-3-.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/82/view/news/page/1/read/22065/Guild-Wars-Winds-of-Change-Update-Now-Live.html

Link 1 added 11 new quests

Link 2 added 9 new quests

Almost half a year between the two updates.  Astounding

Originally posted by phigety

so how does this involve the topic of sub fee's and no sub fee's?

 

I replied about the failed games who because of "lack of profit" closed their doors.

 

Subs are a thing of the past and should be, as prove, useless for us consumers.

Thank you for answering my question.

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Can a GW2 fan explain to me why you have MMORPGs that sold a lot of boxes eventually shut down because they are no longer profitable if subscription fees do not matter?

I ask because in comparison to sub-based games, GW2 felt cheaply made, lacked the depth and breadth of content of a P2P MMORPG, and had a very short lifespan.  Just because GW2 has persistant areas outside of towns and outposts isn't enough to subside my fears that GW2 may end up the same way.

You've either mixed up your numbers, [Mod Edit]

No, not everyone who objects to your views is being touchy, or otherwise defensive. Actually in this case it seems like you're refereing to bad experiences in Guild Wars 1 half the time. The rest was pure conjecture. Stuff you simply made up. Especially love how you refer to GW2 in past tense, as if you've bought it or something.

You accused me of trolling, tried to derail the conversation by pointing out a typo, and 2 posts later, you still haven't answered my question.

The conjecture was all on your behalf.  GW1 was a great game, but it is not a game that I felt deserved a subscription fee because it was not of the same quality as a game that has one.  Just to say what pops into my head, when I played,  the graphics were nice, but the gameworld didn't allow for much interaction (can't swim, can't open doors and thus can't explore buildings) animations were stiff, everyone looked the same, there wasn't a lot of draw to the game after having raised a character to level 20 aside from HoH PvP and GvG. 

GW1 is entirely irrelevant.  It hasn't had a major content update in close to 5 years, pick up PvP is absolutely dead, and it is pretty much only still played by diehard fans.  If you bring up seeing several players around in outposts, lets not forget the game only has a single server. 

Here's my confused thought process on GW2 hype:

0) I'm confused about the GW2 hype

1) No monthly fee (for those without jobs)!  Awesome!  No grind (for those that hate that) yeah!  Dynamic quests.  Yeah!  RvRvR PVP Awesome!  GW2 gonna rock this world!

2) Wait a minute, most of those people who are most excited about GW2 also loved GW1

3) I personally thought GW1 was horrid.  Literally one of the worst games I've ever played (not trolling here, honestly)

4) Hmmm.  Now I'm not so sure about GW2.  Many of those hyping it loved a game I hated.

5) I'm confused again

really? people might listen to your arguement if you didn't come across like a conceited twat..play the game and then feel free to share your opinion..otherwise everything you say is just your pre conditioned monkey brain resisting against something that is new.

I played GW1.  And I get the people that think $10-15 dollars a month is a big deal.  Wasn't actually trying to be a "twat" because I get it.  I put the "without jobs" just to clarify I personally don't care about the fee.  I also don't personally care about a little grind which is why I added that qualifier as well.  My point 1) was actually admitting I can get the hype sometimes.  But then the rest of the points confuse me again.

And not to be snobby but monthly fee really is chump change to an adult with a decent job.  Compare it to the cost of a night out with the family or even a movie.  I pay almost $200 a month on my cable bill LOL.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Can a GW2 fan explain to me why you have MMORPGs that sold a lot of boxes eventually shut down because they are no longer profitable if subscription fees do not matter?

I ask because in comparison to sub-based games, GW2 felt cheaply made, lacked the depth and breadth of content of a P2P MMORPG, and had a very short lifespan.  Just because GW2 has persistant areas outside of towns and outposts isn't enough to subside my fears that GW2 may end up the same way.

You've either mixed up your numbers [Mod Edit]

No, not everyone who objects to your views is being touchy, or otherwise defensive. Actually in this case it seems like you're refereing to bad experiences in Guild Wars 1 half the time. The rest was pure conjecture. Stuff you simply made up. Especially love how you refer to GW2 in past tense, as if you've bought it or something.

You accused me of trolling, tried to derail the conversation by pointing out a typo, and 2 posts later, you still haven't answered my question.

The conjecture was all on your behalf.  GW1 was a great game, but it is not a game that I felt deserved a subscription fee because it was not of the same quality as a game that has one.  Just to say what pops into my head, when I played,  the graphics were nice, but the gameworld didn't allow for much interaction (can't swim, can't open doors and thus can't explore buildings) animations were stiff, everyone looked the same, there wasn't a lot of draw to the game after having raised a character to level 20 aside from HoH PvP and GvG. 

GW1 is entirely irrelevant.  It hasn't had a major content update in close to 5 years, pick up PvP is absolutely dead, and it is pretty much only still played by diehard fans.  If you bring up seeing several players around in outposts, lets not forget the game only has a single server. 

Here's my confused thought process on GW2 hype:

0) I'm confused about the GW2 hype

1) No monthly fee (for those without jobs)!  Awesome!  No grind (for those that hate that) yeah!  Dynamic quests.  Yeah!  RvRvR PVP Awesome!  GW2 gonna rock this world!

2) Wait a minute, most of those people who are most excited about GW2 also loved GW1

3) I personally thought GW1 was horrid.  Literally one of the worst games I've ever played (not trolling here, honestly)

4) Hmmm.  Now I'm not so sure about GW2.  Many of those hyping it loved a game I hated.

5) I'm confused again

Well the fact that the guy still hasn't answered my question, opting instead to go into hyper defensive mode, speaks volumes.

No one is forcing you to play the game man! if you don't like what you see then just don't play it, Otherwise do as us sane people do and judge the game once it's actually released.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

*snip*

Here's my confused thought process on GW2 hype:

0) I'm confused about the GW2 hype

1) No monthly fee (for those without jobs)!  Awesome!  No grind (for those that hate that) yeah!  Dynamic quests.  Yeah!  RvRvR PVP Awesome!  GW2 gonna rock this world!

2) Wait a minute, most of those people who are most excited about GW2 also loved GW1

3) I personally thought GW1 was horrid.  Literally one of the worst games I've ever played (not trolling here, honestly)

4) Hmmm.  Now I'm not so sure about GW2.  Many of those hyping it loved a game I hated.

5) I'm confused again

Well I've never played Guild Wars 1, because I knew I would have not enjoyed playing it. Just doesn't have what I want from RPG, let alone and Online one. However I'm excited for Guild Wars 2, based on what it has to offer (mainly that it is different from GW1). That should help give you a different perspective of things.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Can a GW2 fan explain to me why you have MMORPGs that sold a lot of boxes eventually shut down because they are no longer profitable if subscription fees do not matter?

I ask because in comparison to sub-based games, GW2 felt cheaply made, lacked the depth and breadth of content of a P2P MMORPG, and had a very short lifespan.  Just because GW2 has persistant areas outside of towns and outposts isn't enough to subside my fears that GW2 may end up the same way.

You've either mixed up your numbers [Mod Edit]

No, not everyone who objects to your views is being touchy, or otherwise defensive. Actually in this case it seems like you're refereing to bad experiences in Guild Wars 1 half the time. The rest was pure conjecture. Stuff you simply made up. Especially love how you refer to GW2 in past tense, as if you've bought it or something.

You accused me of trolling, tried to derail the conversation by pointing out a typo, and 2 posts later, you still haven't answered my question.

The conjecture was all on your behalf.  GW1 was a great game, but it is not a game that I felt deserved a subscription fee because it was not of the same quality as a game that has one.  Just to say what pops into my head, when I played,  the graphics were nice, but the gameworld didn't allow for much interaction (can't swim, can't open doors and thus can't explore buildings) animations were stiff, everyone looked the same, there wasn't a lot of draw to the game after having raised a character to level 20 aside from HoH PvP and GvG. 

GW1 is entirely irrelevant.  It hasn't had a major content update in close to 5 years, pick up PvP is absolutely dead, and it is pretty much only still played by diehard fans.  If you bring up seeing several players around in outposts, lets not forget the game only has a single server. 

Your trying to compare a CORPG to an MMO, there is no comparison, GW1 has actually had plenty of game content updates, the most recent was "The winds of change", it also has plenty of PvP and a lot of people still do PvP both competetivly and casually.  Anet still actively supports GW1 and you are correct that they havnt had a boxed expansion for a while, they have probably felt they have taken the game as far as they think they can, and also a lot of their resources have been put into the development of GW2 the past 5 years.

Getting to level cap was easy and fast, the game was based on skill, there was no need to raise cap beyond 20, there probably was good reason not to put levels into the game at all really.

Maybe we should all follow your reasoning and start comparing BF3, COD and other server based games to MMO's.

Stay on topic - this is about the topic outlined in the OP. Do not derail the thread.

One guy(SuperX) is oblivious highly oblivious yet stubborn, there is no reasoning or no need to waste time on such. The other is trying to prove a point and was doing good but fucked up when saying "For no jobs." come on Gain you know good ol well how to word that "For people who just don't want to play subs, for people w/o jobs, for people who just wanna have fun w/o having to put in credit card info." So your right but wrong in how it came off.

Any way just for a recap on what's been posted, food for thought(I'm going to keep saying this because that thread amused me)...

Read my signature and please someone come up with legit counters than attempting to be and remain oblivious about the Game itself.

There is nothing else needed to be said honestly unless it's about why subs are needed, not needed, in all honestly they aren't but what ever, but please continue the arguments lol.

Take care and enjoy yourselves.

(Remember read the link in my signature for a recap it's already on the first page.)

Originally posted by DLangley

Stay on topic - this is about the topic outlined in the OP. Do not derail the thread.

Thanks for that... kinda forgot what the topic was about, after all that forum PvP.

But yeah, subs will seem irrelevant after GW2. If the rest of the game is as good as the beta (or better).

Originally posted by RizelStar
[...]

Read my signature and please someone come up with legit counters than attempting to be and remain oblivious about the Game itself.

There is nothing else needed to be said honestly unless it's about why subs are needed, not needed, in all honestly they aren't but what ever, but please continue the arguments lol.

Take care and enjoy yourselves.

(Remember read the link in my signature for a recap it's already on the first page.)

You should turn it into a link people can click on, like mine.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Can a GW2 fan explain to me why you have MMORPGs that sold a lot of boxes eventually shut down because they are no longer profitable if subscription fees do not matter?

I ask because in comparison to sub-based games, GW2 felt cheaply made, lacked the depth and breadth of content of a P2P MMORPG, and had a very short lifespan.  Just because GW2 has persistant areas outside of towns and outposts isn't enough to subside my fears that GW2 may end up the same way.

You've either mixed up your numbers, [Mod Edit]

No, not everyone who objects to your views is being touchy, or otherwise defensive. Actually in this case it seems like you're refereing to bad experiences in Guild Wars 1 half the time. The rest was pure conjecture. Stuff you simply made up. Especially love how you refer to GW2 in past tense, as if you've bought it or something.

You accused me of trolling, tried to derail the conversation by pointing out a typo, and 2 posts later, you still haven't answered my question.

The conjecture was all on your behalf.  GW1 was a great game, but it is not a game that I felt deserved a subscription fee because it was not of the same quality as a game that has one.  Just to say what pops into my head, when I played,  the graphics were nice, but the gameworld didn't allow for much interaction (can't swim, can't open doors and thus can't explore buildings) animations were stiff, everyone looked the same, there wasn't a lot of draw to the game after having raised a character to level 20 aside from HoH PvP and GvG. 

GW1 is entirely irrelevant.  It hasn't had a major content update in close to 5 years, pick up PvP is absolutely dead, and it is pretty much only still played by diehard fans.  If you bring up seeing several players around in outposts, lets not forget the game only has a single server. 

Here's my confused thought process on GW2 hype:

0) I'm confused about the GW2 hype

1) No monthly fee (for those without jobs)!  Awesome!  No grind (for those that hate that) yeah!  Dynamic quests.  Yeah!  RvRvR PVP Awesome!  GW2 gonna rock this world!

2) Wait a minute, most of those people who are most excited about GW2 also loved GW1

3) I personally thought GW1 was horrid.  Literally one of the worst games I've ever played (not trolling here, honestly)

4) Hmmm.  Now I'm not so sure about GW2.  Many of those hyping it loved a game I hated.

5) I'm confused again

really? people might listen to your arguement if you didn't come across like a conceited twat..play the game and then feel free to share your opinion..otherwise everything you say is just your pre conditioned monkey brain resisting against something that is new.

I played GW1.  And I get the people that think $10-15 dollars a month is a big deal.  Wasn't actually trying to be a "twat" because I get it.  I put the "without jobs" just to clarify I personally don't care about the fee.  I also don't personally care about a little grind which is why I added that qualifier as well.  My point 1) was actually admitting I can get the hype sometimes.  But then the rest of the points confuse me again.

And not to be snobby but monthly fee really is chump change to an adult with a decent job.  Compare it to the cost of a night out with the family or even a movie.  I pay almost $200 a month on my cable bill LOL.

 

i have a decent job and i'm happy to forego paying $15 a month. delighted, even. you might be able to afford a 200 buck cable bill, but with mortgages, rates, kids and all the rubbish that goes with interest rates, i'm absolutely chuffed to get the bargain of a lifetime which is an awesome game for the price of the box. you might think $15 is nothing. chump change to you. congratulations. some of us don't think so. not that it would have stopped me paying it, but for me it's just an added extra bonus that tells me anet loves me and respects me as a customer.

for me, it also works to solidify their ability to change the game as they want. to keep the integrity of their game without giving in to "do what i wantz or i quitz and take my moneyz."

gw1 was ok. not great. gw2 looks revolutionary. no matter whether you like or hate it, it will change everything in the mmo genre, and for that it's a truly great game already. because if it doesn't live up to half what it promises, those promises have shined a light on the repetitive garbage we've been fed this past 5 years in the mmo industry.

I think the advantage of B2P, for the consumer, is pretty obvious. For the publisher, not having a monthy fee means you keep more of your fans as active fans, where as with the subscription model, most players who buy the box have canceled with in a few months and usually will not return.

Under B2P, the developer needs to offer enough positive game play for the buyer to feel the purchase was worth the price. When compared to non-MMO games, the amount of content provided by GW2 is just completely massive. I would think that the majority of players who get more than a month or two out of GW2 will consider it as having been worth the price and will be likely to spread positive word of mouth and return to purchase future expansions.

With out the pressure of constantly justifying an ongoing subscription fee, players can see their play time wax and wane and never have to face the question of whether or not it's time to just cut ties with the game. I know there are a few MMOs I would have continued to play casually, if not for the subscription fee, but my anticipated level of play just did not justify the ongoing layout.

GW2 is not MMO-Light, just because it's B2P. It looks to offer more content at launch than perhaps any MMO since WoW. Automatic level scaling of your character for lower level content, (while earning XP and loot based on your true level), means that even once you've reached the level cap, almost the entire game's content is still available and worth while. So, not only is the B2P business model great for those who will play GW2 on a more casual schedule that may include breaks from the game, but those of us looking for a game to play continually over the long term really can look forward to unprecedented value from GW2.

Don't discount the cash shop for providing revenue for NCSoft. Though there will be nothing you have to buy to enjoy play or be competative with others, I expect that the cash shop, with it's mostly cosmetic items and various account services, (not the least of which will be added character slots), will be very popular. I also expect that many players who do play continualy over the long term will look to make purchases in order to show their appreciation.

With a P2P, subscription title, a game needs to immediately establish that it's likely to be worth paying to play over the months ahead and then needs to continue to actually justify the fee every month moving forward. People who aren't immediately convinced cancel before the end of the free month and typically carry resentment and negativity for the game from that point forward. Players who do enter the active subscription phase continue to weigh the game vs. the subscription fee and will also develop resentment towards a game, (and even the developer and publisher), if the game fails to keep on justifying the fee. With very rare exception, most of these P2P subscription MMOs collapse under the weight of resentment and negativity their very business model encourages and almost ensures.

Not only is B2P a great model for GW2 that will likely lead to levels of success that would not be possible otherwise, but if they actually succeed in offering more game and more fun than the majority of P2P games, I think most P2P games are going to find it much, much harder to continue to justify their ongoing subscription fees.

The only "buy 2 play" games I have ever played have been loads of single player RPGs, one CORPG, one ARPG, and a wide assortment of adventure games.  I haven't yet experienced a b2p MMO, so GW2 will be a first for me.  I think I would do better to answer the question of "which" after I have experienced both.  I don't mind p2p, and I even played EQ2 that is p2p with a cosmetic RMT shop and didn't mind it a bit, BUT....I felt like (at the time) EQ2 was offering me a LOT for my money.  Generally I would not approve of p2p with RMT microtransactions as well. 

I think I will prefer the buy to play model, but....I really can't say for sure until I'm IN it.  Buy to play with cosmetic RMT and some (SOME) DLC seems okay to me.  But I expect those things to be like expansions, not tiny little blips of nothingness ala Dragon Age Origins.  That game burned me pretty good on DLC.  It made me almost detest it.  But I do rather enjoy a cosmetic shop.