General Discussion

Warhammer Online will employ one of the most interesting class systems in any MMORPG to date when they debut in the Fall. In part one of this two-part series, Jon Wood speaks to Mythic's Adam Gershowitz about the three ideas that formed the backbone of the careers design.

Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with Adam Gershowitz, the Combat and Careers strike team lead over at EA Mythic’s Warhammer Online. During the interview, we talked about the classes in Warhammer (known as Careers) and what went into the overall design process in bringing them to life.

The Warhammer Online careers system has gone through an evolution since the game was announced, moving from an extremely complex system when the game was first announced, to the complex and interesting but ultimately more understandable system that we have today and will see at launch.

Read it all here.

nm

Only problem I see with having lots of classes is balance but if they get that right which they wont at first then it'll be a hit because all the classes are interesting on the destruction side atleast.

When they say the first take on the careers was too complex, was it anything close to the fantasy roleplay system? Which typically started as something like a simple woodcutter or academic, then they would branch out into more sophistacted roles such as brigand, captain, judicial champion or pit fighter and of course if you are a dwarf the slayer careers.

There was also non-combat careers like demagogue, charlatan all revolving around manipulating innoncent folks (being non-combat it is easy to see why these wouldnt fit the current career formats).

The point is they all relied on prerequisite skills to be learned before one could progress from a base career to the more 'high brow' stuff. Typically it would take half a decade just to get to wizard rank 1 in the pnp game (unless the dm was kind with exp). I can see why the system will never make it into an mmo type format, although maybe a platform like the 4th edition d&d it would work.

Anyway looking forward to the next part of the interview :)

Originally posted by Silverthorn8

When they say the first take on the careers was too complex, was it anything close to the fantasy roleplay system? Which typically started as something like a simple woodcutter or academic, then they would branch out into more sophistacted roles such as brigand, captain, judicial champion or pit fighter and of course if you are a dwarf the slayer careers.

There was also non-combat careers like demagogue, charlatan all revolving around manipulating innoncent folks (being non-combat it is easy to see why these wouldnt fit the current career formats).

The point is they all relied on prerequisite skills to be learned before one could progress from a base career to the more 'high brow' stuff. Typically it would take half a decade just to get to wizard rank 1 in the pnp game (unless the dm was kind with exp). I can see why the system will never make it into an mmo type format, although maybe a platform like the 4th edition d&d it would work.

Anyway looking forward to the next part of the interview :)

Yeah, I totally loved that system as well...

However since the MMORPG is squarely based on TT portion of the IP rather than RPG one (I believe it's even been given over to a separate company while GW concentrates on the TT), the existing career system is OK.

A WHFRPG career system would be awesome but then it wouldn't be all about WAR since a lot of those classes aren't purely combat ones. It would be better suited for a more classical MMO rather than a RvR one. Oh well...

The early on problems with the classes wasn't so much the classes themselvs as the Mastery System. It wasn't very well exsplained or layed out. Not really their fault they hadn't ever tried anything like it and the first version of it, as no surprise, floped. It wasn't the system or the ideas just the application. So they went back and clearly exsplained the system, how it worked and how it effected you. They also redesigned what you got and how much that might effect the game for you. This now has a huge effect on you as a player. Because it lets you play the game, as they like to say "Your Way" for instance you can deside to be a DOT Sorc, or an AoE Sorc, or a DD Bolt casting Sorc. You will still have spells from all the lines, but the one you speced will has special ablities and boosted spells dmg ect. So naturaly you'll prob use the line you speced more then the rest. It's a really robust system as far as I understand. it just took them a bit to get there.

As for the balance thing I agree it will be hard to do, but not so hard as you'd think. Afterall a Mele dps needs to have some kinda hard cap on their dps per level per encounter. As long as your Orc and my Dwarf both have the same DPS, who cares who were doing it. I belive that was the key point to the system. Not so much that everyone whos Mele DPS has to be a rogue,, but that when 2 of them hit each other. The player with more skill will win, not the one class because it's a BETTER mele DPS.

just my 2 cents. As a disclaimer I'm NOT in the beta, but I like other hard cores have been keeping up with ever bit of avail info. All thease statements are drawn from publicly open information. Though it is only the info Mythic has released.. so it could all be smoke and mirrors for all I know.. I'm just saying it's what I understand it to be  so no one stahb me to death for being a haritic I didn't mislead on purpose if I have!

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Silverthorn8

When they say the first take on the careers was too complex, was it anything close to the fantasy roleplay system? Which typically started as something like a simple woodcutter or academic, then they would branch out into more sophistacted roles such as brigand, captain, judicial champion or pit fighter and of course if you are a dwarf the slayer careers.

There was also non-combat careers like demagogue, charlatan all revolving around manipulating innoncent folks (being non-combat it is easy to see why these wouldnt fit the current career formats).

The point is they all relied on prerequisite skills to be learned before one could progress from a base career to the more 'high brow' stuff. Typically it would take half a decade just to get to wizard rank 1 in the pnp game (unless the dm was kind with exp). I can see why the system will never make it into an mmo type format, although maybe a platform like the 4th edition d&d it would work.

Anyway looking forward to the next part of the interview :)

 

Yeah, I totally loved that system as well...

However since the MMORPG is squarely based on TT portion of the IP rather than RPG one (I believe it's even been given over to a separate company while GW concentrates on the TT), the existing career system is OK.

A WHFRPG career system would be awesome but then it wouldn't be all about WAR since a lot of those classes aren't purely combat ones. It would be better suited for a more classical MMO rather than a RvR one. Oh well...

EQ2 sis the archetype system and it turned out badly because you couldn't play the class you wanted to straight away even though you knew what class you were going to be eventually, then you'd get there and the class would suck and go "i cant be bothered with this again" and chuck the game away.

Nice read Stradden,

 Can't wait for part 2. I really like the archetype system,as I will be the Black Guard,and as such I know my role is to keep choke points blocked and make it very hard for ANYONE to get to the Dark Elf casters,healers,or Witch Elves. Add to this the "Tactics" and "Morale"  abilities, and Masteries. This will be one hell of a fun system to play,at least to me any way.

Originally posted by JustBe

Only problem I see with having lots of classes is balance but if they get that right which they wont at first then it'll be a hit because all the classes are interesting on the destruction side atleast.

Balance is only a problem if the game system calls for 100% balance.  Thats why games like WOW are 100% relying on the devs buffing and nerfing.   That calls for what ?  Unhappy ppl and unbalanced game if not done right. 

Good MMO systems are self supporting.  They dont create extra problems with overpopulated classes while others are not played  - just because they are so uber or so poor.    How you make such systems ?  You increse the benefits of working with outhers - and the more that work together - the bigger rewards.  And you DON'T create any side systems that destroy the overall game balance. 

Lets look