General Discussion

The double talk that mmo players exhibit.
Cycle Speech as I call it under my breath.

This is my understanding now as to why we don't get what we want. Maybe the problem isn't all on the shoulders of the developers but on our doubletalk.

We bring utter confusion to developers and they have no other recourse but to regurgitate the same garbage that at one point got us to subscribe. At least THAT at one point satiated us. And by looking at examples of the most popular games, it is in their best interest to follow suit since the bottom line is making money at most companies.

What we say:
I don't want to have the same gear forever, improve my gear because I just moved up x levels.
The reality:
I don't want a grind for new gear that will just be replaced yet I'll do it until the
shiny wears off, then complain about the process when new gear comes along.

What we say:
I'm tired of a quest based system that force me to do something.
The reality:
Without quests I have no initiative to do anything and claim that the game is a boring
sandbox with no goals.

What we say:
I want quests that are something more than kill x of x.
The reality:
I don't want to read long boring quests and treat questing like a software installation -
next,next,next.
I later complain that the quests don't explain anything and expect pointers
and arrows to guide me for any quests that aren't kill x of x because why should I read it, there is a reason I'm not reading a book right now.

What we say:
I don't want to group when I don't feel like it but I want fair rewards for simply playing,
I'm casual- support my playstyle.
The reality:
I don't want the items won by a solo person to be equal to what I group to gain when I choose
to group because grouping requires more work.

What we say:
I want to be free to do whatever I want. Don't limit me or tie me in to performing tasks.
The reality:
I get bored when I have no goals and spend my energy complaining that there is not enough content
and/or threatening to quit.

What we say:
Every interface is designed the same, blah blah, boring, copying from x game as always.
The reality:
Without similar interface design you would be lost and confused.
Ask anyone who uses blender if an uncommon interface has won them praise?

What we say:
I don't like classes that are stronger than mine and I revel when other classes are weaker.
The reality:
I don't like games where everyone is a hybrid, what a silly concept, where is the individuality.

What we say:
I want something innovative, unique, and new.
The reality:
I have no freaking idea how to explain it, just do it already, I'm waiting. Oh and don't change any of this.... or this... or that.... I want to keep all of that. Now, do it code monkey.

How are they supposed to satisfy us anymore?

Originally posted by a_name

 

The double talk that mmo players exhibit.
Cycle Speech as I call it under my breath.

This is my understanding now as to why we don't get what we want. Maybe the problem isn't all on the shoulders of the developers but on our doubletalk.

We bring utter confusion to developers and they have no other recourse but to regurgitate the same garbage that at one point got us to subscribe. At least THAT at one point satiated us. And by looking at examples of the most popular games, it is in their best interest to follow suit since the bottom line is making money at most companies.

What we say:
I don't want to have the same gear forever, improve my gear because I just moved up x levels.
The reality:
I don't want a grind for new gear that will just be replaced yet I'll do it until the
shiny wears off, then complain about the process when new gear comes along.

What we say:
I'm tired of a quest based system that force me to do something.
The reality:
Without quests I have no initiative to do anything and claim that the game is a boring
sandbox with no goals.

What we say:
I want quests that are something more than kill x of x.
The reality:
I don't want to read long boring quests and treat questing like a software installation -
next,next,next.
I later complain that the quests don't explain anything and expect pointers
and arrows to guide me for any quests that aren't kill x of x because why should I read it, there is a reason I'm not reading a book right now.

What we say:
I don't want to group when I don't feel like it but I want fair rewards for simply playing,
I'm casual- support my playstyle.
The reality:
I don't want the items won by a solo person to be equal to what I group to gain when I choose
to group because grouping requires more work.

What we say:
I want to be free to do whatever I want. Don't limit me or tie me in to performing tasks.
The reality:
I get bored when I have no goals and spend my energy complaining that there is not enough content
and/or threatening to quit.

What we say:
Every interface is designed the same, blah blah, boring, copying from x game as always.
The reality:
Without similar interface design you would be lost and confused.
Ask anyone who uses blender if an uncommon interface has won them praise?

What we say:
I don't like classes that are stronger than mine and I revel when other classes are weaker.
The reality:
I don't like games where everyone is a hybrid, what a silly concept, where is the individuality.

What we say:
I want something innovative, unique, and new.
The reality:
I have no freaking idea how to explain it, just do it already, I'm waiting. Oh and don't change any of this.... or this... or that.... I want to keep all of that. Now, do it code monkey.

How are they supposed to satisfy us anymore?

I really don't think there is anything in your Topic that is not true about the community here at MMORPG.com. 

Thus, you as a forum user have to realize that most of the people on here are the minority, and that is why MMO's have similarities.  Because as a Dev there is no reason to try and redo something that has already worked a billion times.

Its like the saying "Don't fix what does not need fixing."

Do you know for a fact that there is even a single MMO player that has said both of the things in any of your examples?

Do you realize that your pairs of statements represent the extreme possibilities of gameplay, and extremes are rarely good options:  the ideal game would probably balance the extremes?

Do you know there is a wide range of different games that appeal to very different tastes?

I pretend to be a pretty smart guy but I didn't understand about 90% of that.  Guess I'll go play an MMO instead of wasting my time on these forums...

Originally posted by rikilii

Do you know for a fact that there is even a single MMO player that has said both of the things in any of your examples?

Do you realize that your pairs of statements represent the extreme possibilities of gameplay, and extremes are rarely good options:  the ideal game would probably balance the extremes?

Do you know there is a wide range of different games that appeal to very different tastes?

Absolutely, without pointing fingers and naming names you can witness players on these and other forums uttering these things with a more shaded tone but the I did dumb the statements down here for brevity. If you don't see it, I'm not sure why you posted in the thread lol

Have you not seen posts asking for the best thing since sliced bread but has no clue what that is?

- How can the ppl on this forum know better than yourself what you want in a game and for certain devs can't have crystal balls... alright, dirty minds cease ahaha

How about the ones complaining about the boredom of sandbox games yet the burden of linear games?

- This is usually the reason ppl leave quest driven games that I've witnessed, tired of the grind but it traditionally starts with forum complaints which does nothing for morale. Even a linear grind is still a grind just like the sandboxers. The hard truth is that grinding something gives us all a reason to login no matter the way it's presented or coated with a faction name or personal title or skill level.

I have seen and heard them uttered by the same players. This is what I believe to be causing the confusion. I do not believe there is a middle ground that the devs are missing. I believe that we are being too judgmental too often and quick to write off anything that may be new if it challenges us when we don't want to prepare in some cases. It's a case of I want something new but I don't want to LEARN something new. It's much easier to complain about anything new than actually try it. We dangle a carrot at them saying I like new, I want unique, then stomp on it.

For example. In LOTRO recently they developed a quest where you play a session as a good guy and a bad guy in the epic quest line story. The same players in my kin who say they want more than kill quests and are bothered by long wordy quests that were looking forward to new quests were annoyed at the difficulty of playing the sessions because they did not take the time to read the session skills so they lost quickly. So ppl don't like easy kill quests, ones they must read, or ones they must solve.... what does that leave? Is everyone really expecting some unique experience that involves none of these - combat, reading, or comprehension with cut scenes afterward to keep enforcing that heroic model that they see in themselves? Is it realistic to expect to do none of these things in a quest and  the devs still be able to creatively come up with quests repeatedly for years.... for each of type of them are complained about.

Different strokes, sure but some players seem to not know in the smallest what they want at all.

Originally posted by zonzai

I pretend to be a pretty smart guy but I didn't understand about 90% of that.  Guess I'll go play an MMO instead of wasting my time on these forums...

lol honesty is the best policy - hope you won something pretty.

MMO players has to be the most masochist community ever.

It's not our fault. It's their fault for an immense lack of imagination, talent and love for the genre.

Originally posted by a_name

Originally posted by rikilii

Do you know for a fact that there is even a single MMO player that has said both of the things in any of your examples?

Do you realize that your pairs of statements represent the extreme possibilities of gameplay, and extremes are rarely good options:  the ideal game would probably balance the extremes?

Do you know there is a wide range of different games that appeal to very different tastes?

 

Absolutely, without pointing fingers and naming names you can witness players on these and other forums uttering these things with a more shaded tone but the I did dumb the statements down here for brevity. If you don't see it, I'm not sure why you posted in the thread lol

Have you not seen posts asking for the best thing since sliced bread but has no clue what that is?

- How can the ppl on this forum know better than yourself what you want in a game and for certain devs can't have crystal balls... alright, dirty minds cease ahaha

How about the ones complaining about the boredom of sandbox games yet the burden of linear games?

- This is usually the reason ppl leave quest driven games that I've witnessed, tired of the grind but it traditionally starts with forum complaints which does nothing for morale. Even a linear grind is still a grind just like the sandboxers. The hard truth is that grinding something gives us all a reason to login no matter the way it's presented or coated with a faction name or personal title or skill level.

I have seen and heard them uttered by the same players. This is what I believe to be causing the confusion. I do not believe there is a middle ground that the devs are missing. I believe that we are being too judgmental too often and quick to write off anything that may be new if it challenges us when we don't want to prepare in some cases. It's a case of I want something new but I don't want to