Age of Conan

Originally posted by miagisan

eve does not use instancing

swg did not until the most recent publishes.

SWG has had instancing on the corvette mission for years now, and a few areas in kash.

your right..my apologies....i totally forgot about them...its been too long sincei  played it :(

i miss my swg

Amen:(

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that Runscape had no instanced dungeons (with the term reflecting - game area that copied itself for private groups) till a few years after (mini games) came in. I was there at the start, still have my account.

Runescape was beta in jan 2001 and went on for some time as beta and amateur concern after that date  as FTP and Jageox didn't form until the end of that year. There were no area's in the game that had private instances everything was open.

AO, made by FC was the first  to use Private Instances, like dungeons where the game copies that same area. Beta from AO, from Sept 2000 can be see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_6vM6CcINk

"Anarchy Online is one of the few popular MMORPGs set in a science fiction future and carries the distinction of being the first MMO to make use of the “instance-dungeon system”. " taken from this sites very description: www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/10/setView/overview

Runecape didn't have a private instance till 2004 for some quests and then later mini games.

 

 

If Runescape didn't have instance's till 2004 then I will appologise for that comment but I will need a link with some Evidence to back it up. That still leave's Phantasy Star Online that preceeds AO's launch by a year. Phantasy Star Online wasn't in Beta in 2000 it launched in 2000 still making it the fore runner on Instance's.

Didn't PSO only release on PC in 2001? before then was console? Also when released in 2000 for the Dreamcast before rev2.0 was it not only offline and not online play? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Online

I don't have any links for RS, I know that RS2 released in 2004 (beta end 2003) and along with it came updated quests (fire giant cave) and others which offered private endings (private instance) and then later on mini games which uses instancing to private area. Every quest or dungeon or area before RS2 was open, anyone any level anywhere all open publically.

(I lived right by jagex in Cambridge :) )

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that Runscape had no instanced dungeons (with the term reflecting - game area that copied itself for private groups) till a few years after (mini games) came in. I was there at the start, still have my account.

Runescape was beta in jan 2001 and went on for some time as beta and amateur concern after that date  as FTP and Jageox didn't form until the end of that year. There were no area's in the game that had private instances everything was open.

AO, made by FC was the first  to use Private Instances, like dungeons where the game copies that same area. Beta from AO, from Sept 2000 can be see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_6vM6CcINk

"Anarchy Online is one of the few popular MMORPGs set in a science fiction future and carries the distinction of being the first MMO to make use of the “instance-dungeon system”. " taken from this sites very description: www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/10/setView/overview

Runecape didn't have a private instance till 2004 for some quests and then later mini games.

 

 

If Runescape didn't have instance's till 2004 then I will appologise for that comment but I will need a link with some Evidence to back it up. That still leave's Phantasy Star Online that preceeds AO's launch by a year. Phantasy Star Online wasn't in Beta in 2000 it launched in 2000 still making it the fore runner on Instance's.

 

Didn't PSO only release on PC in 2001? before then was console? Also when released in 2000 for the Dreamcast before rev2.0 was it not only offline and not online play? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Online

I don't have any links for RS, I know that RS2 released in 2004 (beta end 2003) and along with it came updated quests (fire giant cave) and others which offered private endings (private instance) and then later on mini games which uses instancing to private area. Every quest or dungeon or area before RS2 was open, anyone any level anywhere all open publically.

(I lived right by jagex in Cambridge :) )

No lol PSO on dreamcast was most definetly Online. You could play it online or offline. They wouldn't have gotten away with the name Phantasy Star Online otherwise lol. I'm glad you pointed me there with that link because with a January 01 release date for PC even if it was in Asia only it beat AO to PC as well.

edited because my original reply would have come off a bit harsh which wasn't my intention.

Edited to add: This is what Version 2 added

[edit] Contrast
The second version of Phantasy Star Online functions as either an expansion, or a stand-alone game for the Sega Dreamcast.

In contrast to the first release, ver.2 offers many new features:

The maximum character level was increased from 100 to 200.
An online battle mode with several different rule variations was added.
A challenge mode was added, requiring players to work together as a team to solve each area. If the player finished all nine stages under a certain time limit, they were given the opportunity to choose a weapon and name it.
An "Ultimate" difficulty was added with considerably stronger monsters than the previous three.
The addition of many new weapons with considerably higher stats in contrast to their Ver.1 counterparts. It was very difficult to do substantial damage to Ultimate level monsters with the older weapons online.

And just to reconfirm that the first Version of PSO for dreamcast launched in 2000 was an online game.

[edit] Offline vs online play
All games in the Phantasy Star Online series are multiplayer online games.

This are copied and pasted quotes from the link you provided.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Online

So as a Recap

Richard Garriott - First Proposed Instance's in the early 1990's.

Phantasy Star Online - Was the first to use Instance's in 2000.

AO - Launched in 2001 and also used instance's.

I think that the description for AO is right: " distinction of being the first MMO to make use of the “instance-dungeon system” "

With regards to it being an MMO. Where are PSO is not really massively.  Its a limited lobby that connects to the map, and doesn't fall under this sites classification as an mmorpg.

That said Gamespot list the release date as in 2001 :www.gamespot.com/dreamcast/rpg/phantasystaronline/review.html as well as others in 2001 : www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/singleitem.asp however, Japan in dec 2000.

So one would have to provide when both games were first started being worked on then.

Sega terms PSO as a "Network virtual Environment" which by definition sounds different to an "instance" to me. Seganet launched in Sept 2000 www.rpgamer.com/games/ps/pso/propaganda/dconline-ps.jpg (magazine advert 07.29.2000) http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ps/pso/psopropaganda.html and www.youtube.com/watch for the love :)

Which means that online testing via seganet for the public happened sometime after May 11th 2000 (games announcement: www.allbusiness.com/travel-hospitality-tourism/meetings-incentives-travel/6369199-1.html ) compared to Anarchy onlines announcement :

Development for Anarchy Online started as early as 1995 at Funcom's Oslo, Norway studios en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_Online

Which I am sure is way before PSO was announced. Dreamcast even released in 1998.

As for inventing it, if developement started on AO in 1995, and the Dreamcast just released in '98 then I would think its safe to assume that AO had instancing on the drawing board in an actual game being developed before any other.

In other posts it was said "Instances were first proposed by Richard Garriott in the late 1990s as a way to solve a set of related problems which had become obvious in Ultima Online"  With UO releasing in 1997 upon after which one would assume Garriot thought of the idea / needed.

Even the concept for AO was started in the mid 90's, one would think FC with AO where beavering away when Garriot was scratching his head still.

How does all this stack up with AoC and years later...  Personally I reckon people wouldn't care about instancing if the area's were humongous, I guess the tech is not quite there yet for this to happen. Although personally I am fine with the game set up as I had a few years knowing exactly what it would be like.

So recap.

FC started making AO in 1995

Garriot releases UO in '97 scratches head for idea to solve problems seen.

FC in late 90's already working on AO and most likely has concept for instancing down.

May 2000 PSO announced

Dec 2000 PSO released  (one questions the term instance for the game is the correct usage as definition can be misconstrued in a different way, and classifiaction of PSO as MMORPG is well..)

2001 AO launches.

Who had the idea first and implemented into a working version (publically or internally) ?

First to use instance doesn't mean first to invent it. Just like who invented the telephone? wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_invented_the_telephone 

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

I think that the description for AO is right: " distinction of being the first MMO to make use of the “instance-dungeon system” "

This may be true but I would like to point out that this isn't what this whole debate was about.

Funcom invented instancing and it has good use and not so great use in AoC.

That is what you said.

With regards to it being an MMO. Where are PSO is not really massively.  Its a limited lobby that connects to the map, and doesn't fall under this sites classification as an mmorpg.

The Lobby was a city with NPC's, quests, shops, ect. It was an Online RPG wether it was a Massive multiplayer or just a multiplayer is all that is debatable. These maps as you like to call them were in fact instance's.

That said Gamespot list the release date as in 2001 :www.gamespot.com/dreamcast/rpg/phantasystaronline/review.html as well as others in 2001 : www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/singleitem.asp however, Japan in dec 2000.

Ver. 2 was 2001. The original Verssion launched in 2000.

So one would have to provide when both games were first started being worked on then.

Sega terms PSO as a "Network virtual Environment" which by definition sounds different to an "instance" to me. Seganet launched in Sept 2000 www.rpgamer.com/games/ps/pso/propaganda/dconline-ps.jpg (magazine advert 07.29.2000) http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ps/pso/psopropaganda.html

They were private dungeons/maps that you and people in your party could visit. No one else from the city could come into your instance.

Which means that online testing via seganet for the public happened sometime after May 11th 2000 (games announcement: www.allbusiness.com/travel-hospitality-tourism/meetings-incentives-travel/6369199-1.html ) compared to Anarchy onlines announcement :

Seganet was part of the Version 2 release which is an update/bug fix playable as an expantion or stand alone.

Development for Anarchy Online started as early as 1995 at Funcom's Oslo, Norway studios en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_Online

Which I am sure is way before PSO was announced. Dreamcast even released in 1998.

If were going based on who came up with the concept first then again I'll bring of Richard Garriott which is credited for that.

As for inventing it, if developement started on AO in 1995, and the Dreamcast just released in '98 then I would think its safe to assume that AO had instancing on the drawing board in an actual game being developed before any other.

Again saying on the Drawing Board Richard Garriott beat them to it. If your talking about released with it PSO beat them to it. I don't have the date PSO went into development but I would imagine it was longer than 2 years being one of the first console MMORPG's or atleast MORPG's.

In other posts it was said "Instances were first proposed by Richard Garriott in the late 1990s as a way to solve a set of related problems which had become obvious in Ultima Online"  With UO releasing in 1997 upon after which one would assume Garriot thought of the idea / needed.

ok you want me to assume that Funcom thought up the Idea prior to Garriott because UO launched in 1997 and AO in 2001 becuase  AO was in development since 1995 they thought of it first.

Even the concept for AO was started in the mid 90's, one would think FC with AO where beavering away when Garriot was scratching his head still.

Again I will lol at this. If you want me to just close my eye's and click my heels and say AO thought of it first, AO thought of it first, AO thought of it first..... Well I'm sorry I can't. Show me something tangible like I did for you. Durring development especialy the first year or 2 things change alot and sometimes on a daily basis. You expect me to believe that the first 2 years of development AO was set in stone and had a definite plan....... when they can't even do that for AoC. AO started development in 1995 launched late 2001. Thats 6 years of development.  If you can link proof to where they came up with it before Richard Garriott I will accept it otherwise no lol. Richard Garriott is a hall of famer developer, Gaute was the original lead of AO lol!!!!!!!  Gaute is at best a Hall of shamer.  

How does all this stack up with AoC and years later...  Personally I reckon people wouldn't care about instancing if the area's were humongous, I guess the tech is not quite there yet for this to happen. Although personally I am fine with the game set up as I had a few years knowing exactly what it would be like.

 

The Instancing is just done to death for me. For special quests or something like that it can be fine like Garriott proposed. Definetly not the way FC has done it. Which is something else that leads me to believe they did not come up with instancing. Garriott explained exactly how it should be used and why, Funcom doesn't even have the basic concepts of how or why to use it lol.

The bottom line is I feel I have more than adequetly proved my case. PSO did in fact launch  in 2000 with instance's. Wether or not it was a Massive Multiplayer and not just a Multiplayer Online Role playing game is debatable so you can say it was the first MMORPG to use instancing. That may be why they stated it as such. I was debating the statement made saying they invented instancing.  I have met the criteria I believe in proving that statement false.

You can give them credit for being the First MMORPG to use instanced - Dungeons I won't argue this for the simple reason I don't want to research this any further.  They however are not the first to use instance's or the first to come up with the idea. Was a fun debate though.

The 'who invented instancing' is a pretty lame debate, unless I missed something it's also pretty far off-topic.

FunCom innovated a lot of MMO brilliant systems, features and content in Anarchy Online, the real question is why were none of them included in Conan ?

You certainly can't say they made anything new with AoC. The combat s