WAR (Warhammer Online)

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by taus01

My challange stands however, name me one MMO that is not character dependant progression. JUST ONE!

 

One game you say? So I only have to say the word of one game? OK do I win anything for crushing your challenge......

EVE

 

This thread is like a loose tooth.

 

Of course EVE is dependant on your character's progression, just like all games are.

 

Yeah except as I have described in a post just above this one, EVE doesnt restrict where you go based on the progress of your pilot. Sure you can go anywhere in WAR but you can only survive in zones designed for your level range. EVE is more free and open than that.

Sorry but the "progression ladder theory" just doesnt apply to EVE. You are confusing the progression of the players "level" with the design of the game. The design of WAR is that you have to play it in progressive stages......everyone starts in the "weak" area, then everyone moves to the next area and so on......rather like a set of rooms......once you are too big for one room you move to the next room.

EVE is nothing like that. You can go to any room you like and mingle with and fight against players of any level of skill......ao actually the way you play EVE is NOT dependant on the progress of your character.

You fail.

I can't go and successfully kill rats in 0.0 as soon as I start the game. I have to get some skills, some ISK and better ships before I can do that.

Sound similar to anything else?

Originally posted by Lughsan

It is a ladder and about as inspired in design and implementation as one you can buy at Sears...

 

 

So is life, when you going to stop playing that?

I don't play WAR but you guys really push the limits of intelligence.

Originally posted by onlinenow225

Can we get a close on this?  It is very obvious the OP just made this to make a giant flame bait topic.

He could have explained the exact same thing in a different way, with being less offensive.

Thats the only reason why I called him a troll.  He actually made some good points.  Which is the only reason why I didn't put him on my ignore list.  Right now I am chalking it up as inexperience or lack of social skills if its neither of these then he is a troll. 

Originally posted by holonist

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by holonist

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Cereo

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by aurick The OP's point is very well taken.  But is it realistic in today's market?

Historically, sandbox games do not do very well.  Some can sustain themselves with a small to moderate population, and keep growing over time.  (EVE, for example.) 

 

How is EVE a sandbox or not as the OP put it ladder based? It is just cleverly hidden but EVE is a ladder as all MMOs are. Just because there is no character level does not make EVE special. In EVE the ladder is standing with Corporations, that is essentially a level. In EVE your level is also defined by the amount of time you trained which translates to experience. You can not train battlecruiser before you learned spaceship command IV and Cruiser III, it is a ladder as all other games are.

Just had to comment on this, EVE is a very good MMO, but it is the same as all the others in terms of ladder or linear progression.

 

Thats a really dumb statement. How is EVE a linear game when you can go ANYWHERE at any "level"? The game doesnt restrict you based on how skilled your pilot is so in fact it is nothing like the other mmos at all. There are indeed ladders of progression but the game does not restrict how you choose to play the game based on those ladders. In EVE you can fly and survive anywhere if you are a wise pilot and know what you are doing.

You fail.

 

It was pointed out already but you can do  the same in WAR, you go to any Tier you want in any area. You will just die in a lot of them because you're not strong enough. Its the same in EvE, you can't waltz into 0.0 right off the bat in the game and waltz right back out. And you already admitted it IS a progression ladder system, just like every game is.

I used to listen to what you used to say neon, but right now you're making that pretty hard to respect even reading what you are trolling here.

 

Yeah except that in WAR each tier is designed for players of a specific level range and anyone lower than that range WILL die but in EVE it is a lot more open than that. You get players of varying degrees of skill flying in 0.0 space and you also cannot neccessarily tell how skillfull they are as they dont have a single number attached to them which denotes how pwerful they are (eg my level 20 spaceship beats your level 10 spaceship just because its got a bigger number). Your choice of ship, the focus of your skills and the selection of modules that you outfit your ship with can determine whether you win or lose a fight. Its possible to defeat a more experienced pilot in this way. The same however cannot be said for WAR. A level 20 player will always defeat a level 10 player no matter what you decide to do.

Yes EVE has a progression ladder system in terms of its skill points BUT the game does not have zones that are aimed at characters with a specific number of skillpoints. It doesnt funnel you like a rat in a maze like WAR does.

So no its NOT the same as EVE actually. Not even close. In fact its glaringly obvious that this is the case so how come you cant see it?

Now that I've just crushed your argument does that mean that I have earned your respect back (lol) or do you still think I'm just trolling by pointing out a fact?

 

Since when the funneling its only done at area/map levels ?! Go compare a 3 million point account with a 70 mill one and then come back and tell me that the 3 mill one will win on a frigate fight ...

 

Yeah the 3 million sp pilot has a good chance of having his arse handed to him but its not guaranteed. It depends on how each pilot has trained and also on what other choices they have made. If both pilots are in a frigate then there are only a specific number of skills that each pilot can bring to bare on each other. Remember that there are only 5 levels to each skill and it doesnt take too long for a noob pilot to almost max out a set of skills and use all of them for a frigate. Each skill also usually only adds a 2% or 5% increase in that particular skill. So an experienced player can have 1000000000 million sp and yet when he is flying a frigate he will only be able to use a tiny portion of those skillpoints. The noob pilot will only have his 3 million sp but they will all be focused into one specific role (flying his frigate) so actually the difference wont be that massive.

So yeah here I am coming back and telling you that the noob pilot could still actually win.

In WAR however a player who is level 40 will always beat a level 10 player no matter what.

Level 40 whatever comes at me , i shield bash him out of a cliff  , he dies . So yeah here i am coming back and telling you that the noob level 10 could still actually win .
 

See , i can do the same . Farfetched scenarios ftw btw!

No actually. Your idea is far fetched. Mine is an accurate description of what actually happens in the game.

So no you cant do the same.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Liranan

I read most of the thread but realised on page 2 that OP is just trolling for the fun of it. The fact that he has no real argument and just repeats himself over and over again as if it makes his points more valid is testimony of his non-arguments and trolling. Well done, 12 pages of troll by OP who pretends he actually knows anything.

 

Let's take your ladder concept.

you are born

you learn how to crawl

you learn how to walk

you learn how to say a few words (the order of walking and talking can be changed)

you learn how to use the potty

you learn how to use a spoon and fork

you learn how to dress yourself

 

As you climb the ladder of the greatest MMO ever made, called life, you gain experience, you learn things, you earn credits (grades at school for example) and you earn the right to progress or not to progress to the next level (next grade/class/promotion at work).

So what wa OP's trolling about ladders again? Nothing other than trolling? As I said, 12 pages of troll, well done.

 

P.S.

You don't like the ladder concept? There are ways to exit this great MMO called life.

 

Thats a terrible comparison. In life you are not funneled in a particular direction. You can go anywhere and do anything if you put your mind to it. Also in real life once you reach level 18 (lower for some, higher for others) you can go to areas populated with anyone of any level. In fact you can do it at level 10 if you want.......or maybe even level 5. You can even go adventuring and do quests with someone who is level 80 if you want to.

The OP's post is a LOT more intelligent than what you just came up with. I think its you who has no real argument and is pretending to actually know something. You think the design of WAR is like the design of Life? LMAO! What a joke!!!!

Your post is nothing more than a bog standard "Your a troll" post. Yeah thanks for your input Mr Genius.

Look who's trolling now? The ladder concept can't be applied to life? Maybe you should stop forum warrioring and see the world a little. Then go tell the people who live in the third world they're not being funneled in one direction.

Now you may stop trolling and gain some life experiences, your forum warrioring is weak.

Originally posted by Manchine

Originally posted by onlinenow225

Can we get a close on this?  It is very obvious the OP just made this to make a giant flame bait topic.

He could have explained the exact same thing in a different way, with being less offensive.

 

Thats the only reason why I called him a troll.  He actually made some good points.  Which is the only reason why I didn't put him on my ignore list.  Right now I am chalking it up as inexperience or lack of social skills if its neither of these then he is a troll. 

He made some good points and responded with a lack of respect to people who either used the repetitive troll statement (such as yourself) or an unintelligent comment. Neither of these respeonses required a polite and respectful answer.

I am chalking you up as inexperience or lack of thought and if its neither of these then you are a fanboy.

Originally posted by Liranan

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Liranan

I read most of the thread but realised on page 2 that OP is just trolling for the fun of it. The fact that he has no real argument and just repeats himself over and over again as if it makes his points more valid is testimony of his non-arguments and trolling. Well done, 12 pages of troll by OP who pretends he actually knows anything.

 

Let's take your ladder concept.

you are born

you learn how to crawl

you learn how to walk

you learn how to say a few words (the order of walking and talking can be changed)

you learn how to use the potty

you learn how to use a spoon and fork

you learn how to dress yourself

 

As you climb the ladder of the greatest MMO ever made, called life, you gain experience, you learn things, you earn credits (grades at school for example) and you earn the right to progress or not to progress to the next level (next grade/class/promotion at work).

So what wa OP's trolling about ladders again? Nothing other than trolling? As I said, 12 pages of troll, well done.

 

P.S.

You don't like the ladder concept? There are ways to exit this great MMO called life.

 

Thats a terrible comparison. In life you are not funneled in a particular direction. You can go anywhere and do anything if you put your mind to it. Also in real life once you reach level 18 (lower for some, higher for others) you can go to areas populated with anyone of any level. In fact you can do it at level 10 if you want.......or maybe even level 5. You can even go adventuring and do quests with someone who is level 80 if you want to.

The OP's post is a LOT more intelligent than what you just came up with. I think its you who has no real argument and is pretending to actually know something. You think the design of WAR is like the design of Life? LMAO! What a joke!!!!

Your post is nothing more than a bog standard "Your a troll" post. Yeah thanks for your input Mr Genius.

 

Look who's trolling now? The ladder concept can't be applied to life? Maybe you should stop forum warrioring and see the world a little. Then go tell the people who live in the third world they're not being funneled in one direction.

 

Now you may stop trolling and gain some life experiences, your forum warrioring is weak.

HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Thats brilliant!....and you think my forum warrioring is weak?!

So your saying that all the people in the third world countries are like what.......a low level tier in WAR? What exactly ARE you trying to say? Do you even know? Please explain how the ladder progression design in WAR is similar to real life in which poor people are funneled into a third world country. How do you explain the people who lived in those third world countries getting on a plane and flying over here then? I have a friend who lived in Iran. He is now here in the UK. The laws of life did not "funnel" him into Iran......he chose to leave. In fact I have other friends who come from third world countries too.

Sorry to break this to you but you do realise that people dont HAVE to stay in their countries until they reach a certain level right? You do know that dont you? Also if a level 30 player leaves Iran then he could actually come and do quests in the UK with players of any level. Then he could just decide to hop on over to Russia and do some quests over there too.

Sorry to break this to you but Life is not like an mmo you dumbass and especially not like one with a ladder progression system like WAR.

Now YOU may stop trolling and gain some life experience LMAO!!!