WAR (Warhammer Online)

Originally posted by girlgeek

Originally posted by nikoliath

Let me help you, I see you aint to hot on the comprehension stakes. You are quoting from a later response, try looking in the actual post HE quoted then reply.

 

So as you have stated, WoW chat ( in this caes ) is full of tripe, as you make liberal use of the /ignore feature. I presume that you are making the hint that you have put me on /ignore     good for you old chap, good for you.

 

Anyway this simply a flame fest, so  /wave

 

Again, your maturity level is astounding.  Furthermore, I'm not an "old chap," I'm a 45 year old mother of three grown children.  "Ol' chap" means "old boy" or "old fellow," of which I am neither.  (Okay, I'll cop to the OLD part.  But I'm not a "boy" or "fellow.")

And, in case you had not noticed in your VAST gaming career, all MMOs  have a /ignore feature.  It would actually be rather nice if enough people in Warhammer actually SPOKE requiring you to have to USE it once-in-a-while.  The OPs original post had more to do with the lack of a sense of community in the game.

I believe in the year that I've been a member of this forum site, I have put ONE person on ignore.  I'm not so immature as to have to do that just because someone disagrees with me.

I love when someone runs out of points to argue and simply dismisses a thread with a /wave type comment.  /rollseyes

1. Old chap is simply a saying, a colloquiallism along the lines of Old Bean, Me old China ( china plate - mate ).

2. No need to try to belittle me by casting aspersions on my VAST gaming career. You cried immature! at me earlier, so  .

3. I /waved to try and prevent a tit-for-tat reply session which degenerates into a flame war.

4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues aswell as lack of originality, lack of sandbox openness, and lastly, failing to give them that awe factor. No consideration is given to what the games design brief was. No concession that this particular game might simply not be for them, no it HAS to be flawed! IT WILL FAIL!

These people come here and berate the developers and current fans. They label the games "crap" "subpar", "boring", "copy of [insert MMO]". They complain about things that actually make the game an MMORPG i.e character development, skills and abilities, RPG style combat, with comments like "it wasn't revolutionary, it's the same old thing". No consideration about GENRE.  I could write a whole post on the failure of understanding people have with GENRE.

Some posters feel a sense of satisfaction, I'm sure of it, in rubbishing in 5 minutes a game that has taken a team of dozens, tens of millions of dollars and 4 or 5 years of hard work to make.It's like watching the opening Paramount sequence at the cinema, walking out and telling the people queuing "Don't bother, the film was crap".Good for them, it's their prerogative, but it's still jibberish in my eyes.

For the posters I am talking about, nothing will rekindle their awe of their first MMORPG gaming experience - nothing. That does not make every subsequent game actually rubbish. I dislike them peddaling their bile here, in some vain attempt to persuade others to share their appathy. 

I am a firm believer in people forming their own opinions on these games. I too am writing this in vain, I know that. I don't care if you like or dislike the game, it's the pointless finger pointing at inane subjective "faults" that irk me enough to reply to the posts.

Maybe a new discussion forum is in order. A place for Ex fans to hang out and complain till their hearts sing. It's been 11 years since UO launched. I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.

You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.

Good day.

Well said nikoliath.  The same jading seems to affect fans of vast genres of differing activities, from movies, music, consol gaming, etc, you have those that get burnt out and pine on about the "golden" days, lack of originality, and/or  lack of "soul".  I play mmorpgs to have fun, and that has been my goal since I first logged into the gemstone 3 text-based online world a bit before any of the graphical mmo's came out.  I, personally, did not enjoy UO and didn't dive head first into graphical mmos until eq released.

After EQ, I've always tried to keep my perspective on my gaming (Eq was indeed Evercrack for me and my friends, we burnt out and became jaded, IE: Every expansion past velious ruined the game).  I play warhammer currently, and sure it has its flaw, but for the moment, it is the most enjoyable mmo I've played in quite a while.  I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't like it, but to try to refute someone elses opinion and pretend like yours is better than differing opinions due to experience, maturity, whatever (As I see done on this particular site everyday) is actually a moot point.  No one is a "better" gamer for liking one type of game over another.  These type of games are about grabbing some friends, going online, and having some fun. 

Everyone complained about UO back in the day too. 

The mmorpg community have always been drama queens and large egomaniacs.  But thru the years it has gotten worse and worse.

They act like the genre was made for them. 

Me myself im close to sticking a fork in  MMOG forums. (something alot of people have done years ago).

 I think it's the lack of community. I therefore went and joined a heavy RP guild and was much more immersed. I remember slaughtering dwarven wardens and comming out of a tunnel only to be chased off by an entire outpost of dwarves. I made it to the camp in a grove of pines and it was cold, frost on the air and pine trees covered in snow, and a Zeolot is standing by the fire, an old man. He squints at me and goes, "Lord Arakan.. is that you?" it turns out to be a fellow guild member, he explains the situation in the region and we gather others to go take charge of it. I find any game is enhanced by a good guild and RP immersion. 

Originally posted by airhead

They need to move quickly to reduce the XP you get from scenarios. A quick fix would be to at least remove the 'quests' for the scenarios. PQs were a great idea, but they are getting harder to do because everyone is in the scenarios.

Personally, I'm forcing myself to do more stuff outside with guild and friends (quests, PQs, rvr-areas), because it makes the game a LOT more fun. For now, i would recommend: "Just say NO to repeating scenarios... do 3-5 a day, or at most 2 runs of each".... you will enjoy the game a WHOLE lot more... (will not level as fast, but who gives a crap about that?... we play to have fun right?)

Mythic could always increase the amount of XP in RvR, PQ, PvE instead of nerfing scenarios.  Personally I feel very let down by the amounts given out after accomplishing a task.  The problem is that scenarios take care of every aspect a player wants.  More experience than any other activity.  More renown which leads to better gear.  Not to mention scenarios offer the closest guarentee of blanaced/fair sided PvP in the game [when compared to world RvR which is a total crap shoot of how the teams will be].

[edit: I just wanted to add that I think the removal/revamping of the repeatable of scenario quests/kill x enemy quests are a big part of the scenario problem.  The problem being that they are anchored to quest NPCs in specific locations doesn't lend well to people going out into the world.  They should be handled like kill collectors.  Just talk to them at the end of the night and get experience for how every many times you completed a scenario, total enemy kills and then extend that to world PvP also.  Tethering XP to a quest NPC that must be visited between each scenario (or world PvP) doesn't do much good for a world based game.]

I understand why people do them over any other activity, but I don't think reducing scenario experience alone will solve the problem. 

There were NO golden days of MMOs.There was only the first /early days.Aside from graphics little to no improvements (gameplay wise) have come along, and in many cases steps backward have been made.

The first days,were bad also.BUT since they had that "newness" to them, and since we had no idea of the flaws littered thru them,some of us get confused and think they were "the good ole days".

But its just confused hindsight caused by ignorance of the then true state,as people didnt reconize the flaws yet.

BUT now we do reconize.At least alot of us do.And we should as, they are pretty much the same flaws that were around all the way back to The Realm.Adn each time the dev teams turn out the same old products with new skins,but the same old flaws we see it right off now.

Its not that the prosective customer has become jaded,its just that hes been sold the same crap with the same flaws so many times now, that he can spot them a mile off.You dont even have to be in an alpha or beta now adays, as the dev are sooooo enamored with hype, they point out the same old flaws clearly for us to see.

In their rush to put themselves in the spot light, and the game in there also, they crow about the flaws as if they were something good.Becuase they have NO clue.To the experinced prospective customer though,that hype highlights the flaws as well as it highlights whatever the dev team feels like hyping.

Theres a reason we arent playing the old games,and its the same reason we arent playing the new games.Its the same old flaws.

Originally posted by nikoliath

4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues aswell as lack of originality, lack of sandbox openness, and lastly, failing to give them that awe factor.

No consideration is given to what the games design brief was. No concession that this particular game might simply not be for them, no it HAS to be flawed! IT WILL FAIL!

I could write a whole post on the failure of understanding people have with GENRE.

You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.

Along all the "subjective" issues you listed, only one is, that's awe factor; for any other comparing games' features  to one another is complete objectivity.

Also, while the must be people like you describe looking for a new first time that will last them for years, some other just expect a quality entertainment which will hold their attention for longer than a week.

In the console world you can have games that suck and are recognized as sucky by the pres (DMC2), and others in the same genre but with different mechanics which shines like diamonds (GoD of war 2).

MMos are no different: a few are/were good, most blows, and all your babling about players being jaded do not save most MMOs, and in particular WAR, from comparative criticism to other MMOS.

Today in 2008, i don't play WoW, yet i'll never say this game sucks: it's still a brilliant piece of gameplay. But today also, i play WAR, and i stand by what i said: it's not a good game, and it has nothing to do with me being jaded, it's just an opinion based on past experience.

I know it's hard to understand, but people who criticize MMO are not doing it out of spite, it's a forum and people come and express their opinion about the game. Vain? Yes, who isn't on  the internet...