WAR (Warhammer Online)

My "free" month is passing away, and I will keep on playing, mainly because I've had fun.

That being said, I found some core design flaws that I'd like to share with you, not trying to troll, but to see if people agrees with me, if so, these opinions might reach Mythic's ears.

Let's start naming some game design concepts in war.

1) You need people to play with, and you also need people to play against.

2) The game is placing the main rewards on external factors, with external factors I mean players.

3) RvR targets (castles, flags, cities) are good reward pools with no risk involved.

Now, I'll try to go further into those basics and try to point at the possible problems.

1) Tiered zones play against this concept, so do scenarios, by doing this, you're separating the population of the game, you end up with a vicious circle of rerolling/alt whoring which takes away from other people's experiences.

2) Players are an external factor indeed, you can't control them, they aren't always there, you must wait for them to show up in order to enjoy this, relying on "mood" or global population to enjoy an important part of the content and the main way of advancement.

3) People aren't involved in these features, the lack of penalty drives to nobody caring about losses, which leads to a lack of competition, something basic in the RvR concept. People are greedy, always. They will always look for their personal progression before looking for the faction progression.

Now, I'll try to suggest what I'd improve upon.

1) Take away scenarios from the game and try to get the people together, if my experience depends on them, make it so they are always there, because if they aren't, I'll be bored. Doing this is possible by eliminating level gaps or making level gaps even more important, people will aim to level harder if they are somehow handicaped by the fact that they aren't 40, so, instead of rerolling alts, they'll be focusing harder on their mains, getting them to 40, and getting to taste the endgame completely, which will make them stay.

2) Mix PvP and PvE, make it so the best pve rewards and areas are in a war zone, keep some safe areas so people can level slowly, and then add a fast leveling area with risk involved. Encourage groupping outside of instances, a player running around in a war zone just so he can kill mobs won't lead to massive fights, a party vs party will do, though.

3)Penalize the losing side, make it so they can't keep on with certain part of their personal progression unless they fight, make the profits from winning continous instead of instantaneous, for example, give a token to the people winning the keep with acess to a cool area.

I would be inclined to agree that some kind of penalty for losing would make sense, I don't think it would be acceptable to the player base though.

Originally posted by Blodpls

I would be inclined to agree that some kind of penalty for losing would make sense, I don't think it would be acceptable to the player base though.

Im sure you're right, many people would whine, but you have to step in their personal greed if you want them to be active on a field. Maybe I'm overlooking some other ways to accomplish that, but I really cannot see them.

Originally posted by Ephimero

My "free" month is passing away, and I will keep on playing, mainly because I've had fun.

That being said, I found some core design flaws that I'd like to share with you, not trying to troll, but to see if people agrees with me, if so, these opinions might reach Mythic's ears.

Let's start naming some game design concepts in war.

1) You need people to play with, and you also need people to play against.

2) The game is placing the main rewards on external factors, with external factors I mean players.

3) RvR targets (castles, flags, cities) are good reward pools with no risk involved.

Now, I'll try to go further into those basics and try to point at the possible problems.

1) Tiered zones play against this concept, so do scenarios, by doing this, you're separating the population of the game, you end up with a vicious circle of rerolling/alt whoring which takes away from other people's experiences.

2) Players are an external factor indeed, you can't control them, they aren't always there, you must wait for them to show up in order to enjoy this, relying on "mood" or global population to enjoy an important part of the content and the main way of advancement.

3) People aren't involved in these features, the lack of penalty drives to nobody caring about losses, which leads to a lack of competition, something basic in the RvR concept. People are greedy, always. They will always look for their personal progression before looking for the faction progression.

Now, I'll try to suggest what I'd improve upon.

1) Take away scenarios from the game and try to get the people together, if my experience depends on them, make it so they are always there, because if they aren't, I'll be bored. Doing this is possible by eliminating level gaps or making level gaps even more important, people will aim to level harder if they are somehow handicaped by the fact that they aren't 40, so, instead of rerolling alts, they'll be focusing harder on their mains, getting them to 40, and getting to taste the endgame completely, which will make them stay.

2) Mix PvP and PvE, make it so the best pve rewards and areas are in a war zone, keep some safe areas so people can level slowly, and then add a fast leveling area with risk involved. Encourage groupping outside of instances, a player running around in a war zone just so he can kill mobs won't lead to massive fights, a party vs party will do, though.

3)Penalize the losing side, make it so they can't keep on with certain part of their personal progression unless they fight, make the profits from winning continous instead of instantaneous, for example, give a token to the people winning the keep with acess to a cool area.

You know - you could write a list like this 10 times as long for any other mmog.  

WAR is new - you can like any mmog have a different experience on different servers.

Granted expecting tier 1 rvr to kick off immediately was an oversight but it is a great feature for people wjhen they start levelling alts becasue it al lcontributes to the endgame push to take the other factions city and experienced players will know how to capitalise on the tier 1 situation.

People are learning how rto play their chars and meeting new people - every mmog has the same issue of people diving in playing substantially a solo game and eventually realising that a guild is maybe a good option.  Even in new guilds yuo get substantially solo play as people - especially the early adopters powerlevel to 40. Again if you joined a guild chances are it will be led by some tool that has 0 organisation/social skills and yuoll want to move on.  just dont be one of thsose asshats thats finds themselves in a good guild with a solid leadersaand screw it up by doing bugger all for the team or taking a fit if you are asked to do something you dont immediately like the sound of. Better still make your own if you are ant good at that sort of thing or are prpared to learn from people that are.

If a guyild moves over en masse you can expect mor e team work but if you havent got that luxury there is no point hankering after it.

Poor teamwork when it is required to win is something that improves with time - you canrtt force people to play like a team - they have to learn to and so al lthis penalising people in game isnt going to help - they work it out themleves or they become the usual whiners that cant do anything except critisie other people / games company for their inaddequacies or personal preferences.

Frankly in a new mmog you should be going out your way via your actions to demonstrate you are a leader or a good reliable teamplayer - thats going to get you noticed and youll find some likeminded people and kick ass.

Again people joining a game like this at launch are dingbats if the ycant choose a character and stick to it - or accept the consequences in seeing others out level them.   Amazes me - people that cant work out you need to be in the pack - and it is a wide pack - spanning many mnmany levels.    You dont stay wit hthe pack if you think you can afford to fanny about trying many classes out and giving up when you actually discover you have to have some skill and dedication to learn to play it or push through a slow levelling patch.  for al lthe subtle differences - a tank is a tank a healer is a healer and a mage is mage.  - what more do you really need to know t owork out if it fits your playstyle ?  Most ehiners are the perpetual underachievers and like all underachieves they spend more effort coming up wit hexcuse or faults rather than look at themselves.  they are especially exposed in a new mmog where there is no getting away from the fact that billy was levle 10 with you yesterday and hes now level 14 and your still 10.   No wtf pwned when u go to the ah with your freshly bought or donated gold and buy a set of op gear etc...

Its the same pea brain that gets an erection when he gets a pieve of gear he thinks it is good and spends yet more time poncing about in it like a 3 year old wit ha new barbie doll.    In a levelling dash / period your gear means sod al lexcept some extra dps or survivability so you can level moreefficiently - get it ?  It isnt sdomething to pull your sausage over as you languish in the lower levels demonstrating to everyone that you are a dingbat and going to be useless in a decent ambitius team come higher levels.   OFc we cant get away from the dingers - hey look at me i dinged level 3 - woopadee fing doo.  If oyu must ding on something mederrately milestoney or impressive  - dinging every time you hit your low new level  makes you look like a three year old chuffed with taking their first dump in the big toilet = like a three year old !

The game is great - its going to get better and better (we expect)

It doesn't apply to every game imho, it applies in WAR cause it's focused on players, yo rely on others in order to experience the game completely. I'm level 33, I've been like that for 5 days already, and all I'm doing is jumping around a rock for hours and hours waiting for a scenario to appear or to see a castle under attack to join, that's where this analysis comes from.

My server is high/high btw, im in an active guild, but it entered a vicious circle where the people at T4 find there are no scs, so they roll an alt, and that drives to less scs in T4, which again drives to more alts.

yes ?  

And new mmog new people - they dont become buddies overnight.  Any mmog has this - people spending a long time to find good relaible mates.

If you havent got em already which most dont - you gotta go find em - and if you powerlevelled ahead of the pack dont be surprised if you find yourself relatively on your own while the rest catch up.  

More to the point the rvr aspects of the game are just begginning and in lower tiers people have a go - get a taste and then refocus on levelling - thats the way it is....

roling an alt is sensible once you have got ahead of the pack and found a decent guild and until the pack catch up = which they will soon enough

given pqd and pve scontribute to the campaign it isnt necessarily a bad idea to find out whats what with those as well or work out the best way/best pqs to do so when it comes time to push that slider you have an advantage, prqactice some formations and assists - there is a lot to do - but yes you will need a team of willing people to do it.  sod it  - rol lan alt and have fun needing on everything to wind up the slackers or playing in scenarios like a dork..  plenty of fun to be had... not to mention pushing up that guild rank so you have an advantage over other guilds in a few weeks time.

What?

I have my buddies and I do play with them, but this game isn't meant to be played with your buddies exclusively, If I wanted to do instances or quests there are games out there that fill that field better. I want to do RvR, and you need a lot of people to do that.

About powerleveling, do you really think that reaching level 33 after a month is powerleveling? Im not only level 33, but I'm also level 32 renown, I have leveled with the people playing scenarios, it's just that they dissapeared on T4 and that the RvR is dead on a high/high server, if you see no problems there, you should get ride of the pink tainted glasses.