General Discussion

from wikipedia: A misnomer is a term which suggests an interpretation that is known to be untrue. Such incorrect terms sometimes derived their names because of the form, action, or origin of the subject—becoming named popularly or widely referenced—long before their true natures were known. 

the following is opinion:

Sandbox games

There are no such thing as sandbox games in the modern genre.  All mmos are task driven.  The appearance of a sandbox game occurs when there are many many tasks diluted over the world.  When a game hits a crtical mass of tasks/ choices its called a sandbox game.  All games put toys in front of you and let you choose which ones to pick up and play, some have more than others, some drag you by the nose a big tigher than others.  GAmes, because they are computer programs, are destined to be repeatitve by nature. 

Best example of a game thought to be a sandbox but not really: Eve online

Time consuming games are better than games that give you fast rewards

Games with ease of travel, weak death penality and rewards for small amounts of time spent are popular for a reason.  I played UO and EQ. I hauled my ghost out of the very bottom of dungeon Deciet's lich lord room and witnessed my vanq silver broadsword poof into nothing.

Tedium does not make a game better. You might like it but there is nothing intrinsically better about a game that sucks up large amounts of time in tedium.  There is no rule written anywhere that states a game without a map is better. If you dont want your loot back when you die delete it, if you dont want the map dont use it and quit whining that these systems....why should you care if I use my map? Games that cause your gear to disappear often have unbalanced risk vs. reward systems.  Who's holding whose hand here?  If you dont want the ease of the modern genre don't use the systems and quit judging those that do.

My best example of a game thought to be a hardcore but not really: Eve online/ Classic EQ 

End game means raiding

It seems the end of the line for all modern mmos are large raids.  Once you've consumed all the content the only thing left to do is to get together in large groups and beat on a mob tuned for such an encounter.  If thats your cup of tea thats great.  I played mmos before this forumla was written however.

There is a complete lack of creative thinking in these games about how to make end game interesting.  The closest I ever game to enjoying end game was with EQ's AA point system.....I rationalized it as an attempt for my character to ascend to demi god status.  Some creative game will come out one day that really delves into this.

This Genre is innovating

With the exception of flying mounts and some destructable buildings this genre has not evolved very much since inception.  In some cases you can see how the genre has de-evolved. The game design template has become standardized but each game is eq clone after eq clone after eq clone.  I maintain that WoW is a better sequel to everquest than EQ2 was.

CCP has some interesting concepts in their game but their stubbornness has put them in a niche market ...power to ya I guess.  Darkfall maybe, Stargate worlds probably.  Developers are too scared to produce anything but wow because they arent in it for the artistic side of things. They want your 15$ a month and these are the types of games you (and I) eat up.

What I have to say is a fact

Red is better than blue, robots over goblins, Coke over Pepsi, story line over game play. There is no right way in gaming just mass appeal vs. smaller niche groups of players. 

People who play wow are simpletons

Before wow came along EQ was high and mighty because it peaked at what, 400k subs?  WoW has 9 million or whatever the number is today.  Those that call wow players kiddies and such are over generalizing.  Its like walking into Walmart and calling them all morons for shopping there.  People are obviously there for a reason.

People of all walks of life play that game and anyone who thinks that demographic is any different (or better) than the demographic of the game their playing has got some self analysis to do. (And i dont even play wow).

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Feel free to post your own or to discuss this topic.

Originally posted by Rekindle

the following is opinion:

You summed up the entire ethos with that one sentence. That disclaimer should be displayed before every post.

i like chicken

The OP is trolling in his own post

There is plenty to play you're just going to have to aim for something that no one will call AAA.   If you can't find something that'll keep you occupied for a year or two, MMO or not that's your own fault.

I totally agree OP.  I wish to expound upon one topic...time sink =! (does not equal) harder.  Just because ti takes x1000 longer to do something it does mean the game is harder.  All it means is it takes longer to do so the people with the most time to play have a better chance to accomplish it. 

Good post, I enjoyed reading that.

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Originally posted by Rekindle
Coke over Pepsi
 

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No Coke! Pepsi!

Originally posted by Rekindle

Sandbox games

There are no such thing as sandbox games in the modern genre.  All mmos are task driven.  The appearance of a sandbox game occurs when there are many many tasks diluted over the world.  When a game hits a crtical mass of tasks/ choices its called a sandbox game.  All games put toys in front of you and let you choose which ones to pick up and play, some have more than others, some drag you by the nose a big tigher than others.  GAmes, because they are computer programs, are destined to be repeatitve by nature.  

Quite backwards.  Actually, all MMOs contain sandbox features to some degree.  Any MMO that has inventory mechanics and interchangeable weapons and armor is sandboxey. The problem is entirely that inventory is where most MMO developers stop at allowing customization.  They don't want someone playing their game to impact someone else's experience (which would be the whole point of an MMO, and that makes their attitude quite strange).  They make stories linear, they make mobs respawn (quickly), they make buildings indestructible, and they use instances to isolate.  All very poor ideas.

Sandbox just means that players have choices:  they can affect the world, they can affect each other, they can affect tools and building blocks.  It's not as hard as developers want to make it seem, though it takes more craftmanship than I think many of them possess.

Originally posted by paulscott

The OP is trolling in his own post

There is plenty to play you're just going to have to aim for something that no one will call AAA.   If you can't find something that'll keep you occupied for a year or two, MMO or not that's your own fault.

what the hell does my OP have to do with not finding a game?

I have a game thats not the point really.