Star Wars: The Old Republic

To me it sounds like they are trying to make a single player game with an mmo skin.  Yeah, sorry if I'm pissing in the Cherrios here, but for a moment let's look objectively at what has been stated so far.

First, according to Bioware the game has more content than all their other projects combined?  So very questy.  Another words, you are not creating your own adventure, they are creating it for you.  So basically you are led from point a to point b.  Oh yes, they give you decision trees, so maybe you are led from point a to point c or d.  But in the end you are still being led around by your collar.  We have already experienced games with millions of quests in them.  The downside of a questy type of game is that it places players creatively into passive mode because the content is spoon fed to players by the developers.

Second, class based content?  This is good and this is bad in my opinion, as it will segregrate the players unnecessarily thus limiting the social aspect of the game.

Third, companions?  This sounds like another word for 'henchmen' as seen in other games where computer controlled characters essentially become the player's pet.  It works great and is fun in single player games.  But why do we need this when we have thousands of other players, unless the game is very single player oriented.  The only companions we should have would be droids perhaps, which augment our play style.  If their idea of companions is similar to Guild Wars or Gods and Heroes, this is fundamentally a bad game design for an mmo.  Unless it is a single player mmo.

To me, it appears as if they are comfortable leading players through content such as in their various single player rpgs, and now they are making the big leap into mmo game design but carrying over the same game design philosophy as single player games. I would not be surprised at all if this is a highly instanced and story driven game where thousands of people are playing but where you get the feeling it's just you and your AI companions.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm tired of feeling lonely in massively multiplayer games.  Is this where they are hinting they are going though?  Anyone else have similar concerns?  Cause right now it seems like everyone is so enthusiastic that another Star Wars mmo is being made that they are ignoring the signs of things to come.  We don't need another mediocre to poor mmo set in the Star Wars universe.  We need a homerun.

I agree with a lot of your points, but it's been said over and over again already.  To me there doesn't need to be a campain to make this a sandbox game.  Bioware is good at making single player RPGs IMO.  As you say it sounds like they are going to try and make this game very story driven, possible lots of instancing, and possible a lot of solo play.  While I normally would not like such things in an MMO at this point since it's Bioware and they have made stories I have really enjoyed in the past I don't mind that they will make the game like this.  I have a feeling that we wont see the generic quests you see in most MMOs where you feel you are just running around clicking killing 10 wolves.  I think there will be good story for each quest that you can't ignore.

Originally posted by Terranah

To me it sounds like they are trying to make a single player game with an mmo skin.  Yeah, sorry if I'm pissing in the Cherrios here, but for a moment let's look objectively at what has been stated so far.

 

First, according to Bioware the game has more content than all their other projects combined?  So very questy.  Another words, you are not creating your own adventure, they are creating it for you.  So basically you are led from point a to point b.  Oh yes, they give you decision trees, so maybe you are led from point a to point c or d.  But in the end you are still being led around by your collar.  We have already experienced games with millions of quests in them.  The downside of a questy type of game is that it places players creatively into passive mode because the content is spoon fed to players by the developers.

Based on what they've mentioned, the idea is that these "decisions" would impact the story, which makes it more unique for each person.  It seems like they are going for personal stories of the characters.  And also, they've made it sound like it isn't the regular quest system.  How much of it will be true and how would it work?  I have no idea, but I can always be hopeful.

 

Second class based content?  This is good and this is bad in my opinion, as it will segregrate the players unnecessarily thus limiting the social aspect of the game.

I think it makes an interesting system.  There isn't any restriction to limit players' ability to find friends to help them along their ways.  How much of it can work out the way they want?  I have no idea.

 

Second, companions?  This sounds like another word for 'henchmen' as seen in other games where computer controlled characters essentially become the player's pet.  It works great and is fun in single player games.  But why do we need this when we have thousands of other players, unless the game is very single player oriented.  The only companions we should have would be droids perhaps, which augment our play style.  If their idea of companions is similar to Guild Wars or Gods and Heroes, this is fundamentally a bad game design for an mmo.  Unless it is a single player mmo.

Their statements for companions are that it is not pets, but virtual friends where you can interact with them.  I've even seen some mention you can "romance" or "betray" your companions... Not sure if I want to get into that discussion, but just to mention what has already announced on various websites.  I want to see the method of how they are approaching this system before I make any judgment here.

 

To me, it appears as if they are comfortable leading players through content such as in their various single player rpgs, and now they are making the big leap into mmo game design but carrying over the same game design philosophy as single player games. I would not be surprised at all if this is a highly instanced and story driven game where thousands of people are playing but where you get the feeling it's just you and your AI companions.

Agree on the thought that they are taking their single player RPG design and expanding it for MMO, but disagree on the result since we haven't seen the actual system in action, can't really judge it as it is.

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm tired of feeling lonely in massively multiplayer games.  Is this where they are hinting they are going though?  Anyone else have similar concerns?  Cause right now it seems like everyone is so enthusiastic that another Star Wars mmo is being made that they are ignoring the signs of things to come.  We don't need another mediocre to poor mmo set in the Star Wars universe.  We need a homerun.

I do agree that MMOs made a sharp turn from online simulated worlds into regular games, which results in too solo-focus hence the lonely feeling in MMOs.  But at this time I can only wait until there's more information on the systems they've mentioned to know how exactly are they tackling the problems.

I've seen a lot of threads like this lately, lamenting the fact that Star Wars: The Old Republic isn't going to be a sandbox game.

Honestly, I wouldn't have expected this game to be a snadbox. If you look at current trends in the industry, the movement is all toward guided experience MMOs. I'm not saying that this is a good or a bad thing. It's just a fact. There is also a very good reason for this: It's a tried and true business model. Huge studios like BioWare, Mythic, Blizzard, Turbine and the rest of the high-profile, publically traded studios just aren't going to be amking a sandbox game any time soon. Frankly put, it's just too risky. While there is appeal from older school or even more hardcore MMO fans, the support from the general public, the "casual gamer" that makes up so much of the market these days (in terms of return on enormous multi-million dollar investments) hasn't proven that they will shell out for that particular model.

If you're one of the many many MMO fans that are craving a sandbox experience, you should look toward the indie development studios out there. They may be smaller, less flashy graphics, less hype, and more bugs, but it's there that the groundbreaking stuff is going to happen.

Honestly, that's also the place where the fans have the most input. These guys are almost to a man relying less on previous sales and market research and more on feedback from their communities to determine which way their development will go.

Anyway, I'm preparing an article on this subject that'll be more in-depth. In short, I sympathise with those who want that kind of rich gaming experience. I just don't see it in the cards for any new high-profile studio games.

Originally posted by Stradden

I've seen a lot of threads like this lately, lamenting the fact that Star Wars: The Old Republic isn't going to be a sandbox game.

Honestly, I wouldn't have expected this game to be a snadbox. If you look at current trends in the industry, the movement is all toward guided experience MMOs. I'm not saying that this is a good or a bad thing. It's just a fact. There is also a very good reason for this: It's a tried and true business model. Huge studios like BioWare, Mythic, Blizzard, Turbine and the rest of the high-profile, publically traded studios just aren't going to be amking a sandbox game any time soon. Frankly put, it's just too risky. While there is appeal from older school or even more hardcore MMO fans, the support from the general public, the "casual gamer" that makes up so much of the market these days (in terms of return on enormous multi-million dollar investments) hasn't proven that they will shell out for that particular model.

If you're one of the many many MMO fans that are craving a sandbox experience, you should look toward the indie development studios out there. They may be smaller, less flashy graphics, less hype, and more bugs, but it's there that the groundbreaking stuff is going to happen.

Honestly, that's also the place where the fans have the most input. These guys are almost to a man relying less on previous sales and market research and more on feedback from their communities to determine which way their development will go.

Anyway, I'm preparing an article on this subject that'll be more in-depth. In short, I sympathise with those who want that kind of rich gaming experience. I just don't see it in the cards for any new high-profile studio games.

I'll look forward to that article for sure, I also completely agree with everything you just said. It was pretty apparent this wasn't going to be a sandbox, their replies early on basically shot down this idea from the start.

I got this feeling too. It looks like they aim to make a single player mmorpg. I still need to see what they offer when the game comes out but im not spending money in a monthly sub for a single player game.

Originally posted by Stradden

I've seen a lot of threads like this lately, lamenting the fact that Star Wars: The Old Republic isn't going to be a sandbox game.

Honestly, I wouldn't have expected this game to be a snadbox. If you look at current trends in the industry, the movement is all toward guided experience MMOs. I'm not saying that this is a good or a bad thing. It's just a fact. There is also a very good reason for this: It's a tried and true business model. Huge studios like BioWare, Mythic, Blizzard, Turbine and the rest of the high-profile, publically traded studios just aren't going to be amking a sandbox game any time soon. Frankly put, it's just too risky. While there is appeal from older school or even more hardcore MMO fans, the support from the general public, the "casual gamer" that makes up so much of the market these days (in terms of return on enormous multi-million dollar investments) hasn't proven that they will shell out for that particular model.

If you're one of the many many MMO fans that are craving a sandbox experience, you should look toward the indie development studios out there. They may be smaller, less flashy graphics, less hype, and more bugs, but it's there that the groundbreaking stuff is going to happen.

Honestly, that's also the place where the fans have the most input. These guys are almost to a man relying less on previous sales and market research and more on feedback from their communities to determine which way their development will go.

Anyway, I'm preparing an article on this subject that'll be more in-depth. In short, I sympathise with those who want that kind of rich gaming experience. I just don't see it in the cards for any new high-profile studio games.

Should be a good article.

People really need to get clued up on how the business world works. These developers aren't out to make your dream MMO, they're out to make cash. It's as simple as that. Of course they're going to adopt the most succesful business model on the market.

It's always the indie developers that provide the innovation as there's usually very little risk involved. It was the same in the 80's and 90's - the majority of the really groundbreaking games came from 'bedroom coders' as they were known back then. The trouble with an MMO is that even a small project is a hefty undertaking and requires a lot of resources.