The two things that bothered me most:

1)  I couldn't get into the game until Sunday evening (mostly my fault). Still, I felt I barely got started with the tutorial area and then the plug was pulled. Was pretty anticlimatic.

2) Playing for a few hours on Sunday  night, I said all of three words to ppl in game. Normally, I was thanking people for rezzing me after I was stupid and died (I still don't get how the combat works... yes, I am one of *those* ppl). It felt A LOT like I was playing a SP game where I just so happened to have other people playing around me (who were very cliqueish and apparently not interested in meeting somebody outside of their group).

I play MMO's to meet people, not to flex my e-peen from atop the mountain that I'm King of. It was quite disappointing to finally get into the world and everybody around me was just scurrying around like worker ants, oblivious to those around them. Why even play an MMO if you don't want to interact with people beyond yourself and your little group of friends?

If I can't find a good guild or a friendly, open group of people to play with, I will probably count this game as $60 wasted and just hope for better luck with AA (a title I also feel that a lone wolf like me will have a hard time getting into since so many guilds and groups seem static and unwilling to let a new person in, for whatever reasons).

TL;DR -- I'm a pathetically sad panda after playing for a few hours last night. Between saying all of three words in GW2 and UWO over this weekend, and meeting all of ZERO people to adventure with, I'm thinking my MMO days are probably behind me if I'm too socially inept to even make a friend. Sucks :(

Originally posted by fundayz

I don't get how this is even causing controvesy.

A player harrassed another at an official event, said player got a 30-day ban and resigned his community possition, end of story.

Not only that but CCP is making changes to future events/panels so this doesn't happen again.

Much ado about nothing.

Are you serious? You really don't get why this is a huge deal? Just pick up any newspaper, turn on the news, listen to the radio even and you will hear something about "cyber bullying".... students rallying against it, mothers upset about it, mothers doing it and getting thrown in jail, states and countries passing laws about it, etc.

Games do not exist in a bubble and until some of you wake up and realize that you have to think about what you say in a public forum, stuff like this will feed the media frenzy that's already in full swing. This whole thing is about perception and about how public sentiment is hardening against anything that even remotely comes close to what happened here.

It might seem all well and innocent to you, but we are a few more events like this away from hardcore laws and regulations on online gaming/"massively multiplayer" interaction of ALL sorts. It will just take some person to kill themselves over something like this for all kinds of governments and pencil-pushers to get involved in the process. This is a BIG FUCKING DEAL and those of you who try to just ignore it away are missing the bigger picture. Some of us can still remember the religious backlash against D&D and nonsense like that... Online gaming (and interaction in general) is being threatened in the same way with all the news reports about teenagers killing themselves over facebook bullying and the like. Therefore, the kind of crap that The Mittani/Alex Gianturco did has simply got to stop, as funny and harmless as some of you think it is.

There is a big ass tidal wave bearing down on the internet right now. We've seen it with all of these laws (US and elsewhere) related to "cyber terrorism" and, now more and more often, "cyber bullying"... People need to start growing up and realizing this isn't just a FFA where you can spit in everyone's eyes and laugh about it without consequences. The beauty about online anonymity (and MMO's in general) is that they allow us a certain freedom, we can literally become another persona in some cases, but the other side of that awesomeness is the danger of losing it all because people don't know how to keep the game world and the real world separate.

Originally posted by mrw0lf

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

I've watched the panel, read the articles, and can only say one thing: It's HILARIOUS to watch all these supporter of The Mittani, the very same people who grief and lololololol about "oceans of pubbie tears", cry like little bitches and scream about how unfair this witchhunt is now that the tables are turned.

 

How do you like a taste of your own medicine, lamers? Double standard much?

So what you're saying is, his specific actions in this case do not justify the outcry, however collectively the goons are cess filled polyps on the anus of life and deserve everything coming to them? That's a movement I can get behind wholeheartedly! Are we also happy with the bad press ccp get? Afterall I fkin hate eve for all wasted hours I've spent trying to like it.

Well, I have to dial it back some. I actually kind of like EvE, even its harsher aspects and I think some of the hard edge of it is very good and the gamers who play there have a right to do as they see fit IG. I just think that for an organization like GS, that boasts about using "psychological warfare" and propaganda against its enemies, it's quite amazing to watch how they don't see what is happening. Turnabout is fair play. Live by distortion and underhanded tactics, die by them...

I think what he said was over the line because of the public nature of the comments and it is too much to wish that kind of harm on somebody and actually provide encouragement for how to make it happen... I think he showed forethought in adding the slide with the original eve-mail from the miner in question... I don't know if he really intended to encourage people to drive the miner to suicide or if it truly was drunken stupidity, but... having watched it and taking GS for who they are (and the game for what it is), I have to admit that this story (or at least a lot of people's understanding of it) is very distorted in some respects (just certain details were left out of the original articles, whether on purpose or by accident). Yet, I think crossing that line is grave enough to warrant outcry despite the inaccuracies.

I really do think it is funny to see such a ruthless organization get knocked down a peg by some of the very tactics that it employs. I find it less funny to think about how this might have damaged Alex Gianturco's career prospects given the nature of google/the internet/employers doing searches into the backgrounds of prospective employees. When people are getting fired for racy pictures showing up on their public facebook pages and the like, what he did was very, very stupid. Being so successful in the game have made a lot of these players feel invincible... I hope what is happening now, once it dies away, serves as a sobering reminder for us all about how we conduct ourselves online.

The younger generation coming up (and many of the older gamers too, admittedly) don't always grasp the implications of our actions online and within virtual worlds (including some of the public spaces that are related to online activity, be they online, like forums - or offline, like fanfests). People go around acting like their behavior and conduct doesn't matter because "it's online... who cares!?" as if the randomness and relative anonymity of it all makes being a dick perfectly okay. This current episode in EvE's bizarre and often entertaining history is just another example of a player who lost a sense of where the boundaries of one realm (the game) end and where another realm (the real world) begins. With the current public fervor about "cyber bullying," it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how what he did is bad for him, bad for EvE, and even a little bit bad for MMO's.

Anyway, these players all felt insulated and invincible because it was a fanfest... which makes it sad. Part of the fun of going (or viewing) such an event is the spontaneous nature of it all. Plus, it lets the diehards let their hair down and enjoy being passionate about their passion. I have no qualms with that, though I could do without some of the alpha-male prick waving that seems to be synonymous with fun at these kinds of things. Still, anybody with half a brain knows that in such a public forum (with literally thousands of people watching), you should probably avoid so much alcohol and you sure as hell better avoid advocating for bodily harm against other people, making racial/religious jokes, etc. At least I would hope that a lawyer (or law student??), which he supposedly is/was, would know better. I will add, just for the hell of it, that I actually liked the EvE-UNI guy and the first wormhole kid was okay too. I can't say that I share your hate for the game, but I do find it humorous that even the goons will have to accept at some point that The Mittani got what was coming to him. You can't put yourself up on some pedastool because of what an evil bastard you are and then act wronged when the same mud you've been slinging comes flying right back at you. TL;DR (unlike the rest of this mess) = what goes around comes around.

I've watched the panel, read the articles, and can only say one thing: It's HILARIOUS to watch all these supporter of The Mittani, the very same people who grief and lololololol about "oceans of pubbie tears", cry like little bitches and scream about how unfair this witchhunt is now that the tables are turned.

How do you like a taste of your own medicine, lamers? Double standard much?

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Mustapha, just ignore the guy.  Trolls are always trolling.

But.... but.... he looked so hungry... awwwww 

Originally posted by waynejr2

I don't think you understand what the OP meant by limited with you pushing swg down our throats.

Newsflash: "Finite" means the same thing as LIMITED.... /facepalm

And... WTF!? I am not pushing SWG down anybody's throat!

FYI, I've never even played SWG (though I wish I could have) and I just so happened to remember Koster mentioning FINITE resources in his blog post about SWG, so I thought my response was perfectly on topic and addressed most of the OP's questions:

• Would finite resource ever work in an MMO?

• Would the fact alone that there is a finite amount of iron cause people to be more careful with how they mine?

• Would they just hoard the iron?

• Would iron be more carefully priced because of the limited supply?

• If there is a correlation between iron and in-game currency, how would it be reflected?

• Would there be guilds soley created just to become a mining operation?

• How would the price of other commodities change if Iron was a basic resource from everything to weapons and armor, to buildings and steel.

Just take a moment to reread what I posted (and maybe even Raph's entire post about SWG) and consider that it relates to all the above questions. It doesn't outright answer some of them, but it is an actual game that had finite resources... resources, I might add, which people hoarded, waited to sell until they became rare, used for crafting special items (which commanded higher prices), and were mined competitively (even to the point of resource exhaustion). ALL of these things are directly related to what OP was asking.... =/

If you don't see the connection between OP's question and SWG, lrn2readingcomprehension FFS...

Originally posted by Typhado

I gotta say the irony is kinda funny here when you stop and think about it.

A guy who promotes himself as being an asshat and promotes thes use of propaganda as a form of warfare is now suffering from a propaganda attack about him acting like an asshat.

What some would call "irony," others would call "poetic justice"....

Originally posted by Jxb1a

Yeah, would finite resource ever work in an MMO? 

I don't think it is valid to ask if it *would* work, because it already has....

• Every resource in SWG was randomly generated off of master types. We defined “iron,” and gave it statistical ranges. Different kinds of iron would spawn with different names, but they would all work as iron in any recipe that called for such. This meant that you might find a high-quality vein of iron, or a low quality one.

• Even more, it might be high quality only for specific purposes.

• Resource types were finite. You could literally mine out all the high quality iron there was. It would just be gone. A new iron might be spawned eventually (sometimes, very eventually!) but of course, it would be rolled up with different characteristics.

• And in a different place. Resources were placed using freshly generated Perlin noise maps.

• Crafters gambled with their resources, generating items of varying quality that were partially dependent on the resources and the recipe.

• Crafters could lock in specific results as blueprints, but that forced a dependency on the specific finite resource that was used, meaning that blueprints naturally obsolesced.

Originally posted by gu357u53r

I found my first game that didn't allow me to choose a male character.  I am male so I always choose male, I think it would be wierd to play a female character since if I really find another female gamer in game to hit it off with my character is male.  Not saying that we are going to become a couple, but even just friends I would still like for my character to be male because I am male.  Now on to the game that forced me to play a female.  It was Vindictus, when I was forced I started to think it really doesn't matter what gender you choose because it is a game, is when I stopped caring if a male chose a female.  Do I still think it is wierd for a man to play as a barbie when they are given the choice of  being able to choose gender?  Of course dude, that is creepy.  But I guess those could be classified as the type of person that is a woman trapped in a man's body.

Come on Barbie, let's go party! xD

Then again, I think this song fits the thread's topic much better:

Girls & Boys

Kinda in the spirit of this thread, just wanted to add that I've known some female gamers who actually played male toons and used male names so that they wouldn't have to deal with endless harassment. They even went as far as claiming they didn't have mics for talking on vent to avoid blowing their cover. It was normally the no mic thing, plus some quirks in their personality and how they would treat me, that made me suspect they were women.

After awhile of playing together and them coming to trust me, I would casually ask them what the real reason they didn't ever talk on vent was... on THREE separate occasions it turned out that I was right, and the funny part was that when nobody else was on, they'd mic up and we'd talk just like normal gamers. They explained that normally they couldn't do something like that because most guys would treat them differently and act like tools as soon as it became known that they were a "real live" girl. I couldn't tell if that was a good thing that I wasn't like that or if I should've been more of a credit (detriment?) to my gender by hitting on them more.

The best part of it was watching them chat in party or guild chat like they were just one of the guys (even going as far as complaining about women who make a big deal about being girls so that lonely nerds help them... just like a grouchy male gamer would). It also always made me laugh whenever they would randomly tell the guys in the guild who played female toons to shut up, get back in the kitchen, and to make them a sammich.

I think it's kinda the same thing as unmarried waitresses who wear rings to try to discourage guys from hitting on them (like that even makes a difference most of the time... lol). Still, the very first time I discovered the truth.... mind = blown. I am still online friends with one of them even today (and we talk from time to time on Skype since we both no longer play the same games). Moral of the story = it's a crazy world and not all is as it seems ;P

Originally posted by Settingsun

I think what the OP is saying is that, he feels icky when he finds out the female toon he has been sex texting turns out to have a male player.

Way to showcase that you didn't even read the OP... =/

*Fourth sentence from OP = Now sure, as gay guy, I do not have the appeal to "see a girl's bum" while I play.

I play a male toon because this is not a romantic princess picnic. This is a manly picnic. No glasses. No napkins. Whiskey only. And pretzels. Oh, and... women are terrible at stabbing things. It's all part of the vast feminist conspiracy....

;D

Originally posted by Banden

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Banden

 

 its basicly a bunch of drunk people being asshats. If you want to take a guy wearing a wizards hat and taking jagershots seriously, thats honestly your own damn problem aswell.

Thats my subjective opinion.

He was there representing his alliance, not representing CCP as CSM chairman and even then the CSM chairman does not represent CCP in any OFFICIAL sense, which is all that matters really. What you are saying is your subjective view on the CSM and I dont see why CCP should react to that.

Then it's CCPs fault that a live stream let all that juicy goodness out, which can be construed as such.

This is the kind of stuff that American news channels hunger for. It's only a single stretch away to being compared to schoolyard bullying, teen suicide, and surely at some point; teenage pregnancy. Don't question why, it's just how fearmongering and hot topics work.

It will backfire for CCP... shit... it already is.

Hey someone making sense! Yeah the media will jump at it like sharks and represent it on par with facebook bullying, suicides and highschools shootings etc etc. Which is bullshit, but then people love this shite because it feeds their prejudice about videogames and violence. WootWoot, all aboard the outrage train. Great.

^This x's 9001...

As dumb as it is, it only takes something like this for a bunch of clueless politicians and "concerned parents" to start beating the drum for "more regulations" this, "greater penalties" that....

I'm old enough to remember when people would kill themselves and it was attributed to Ozzy (or was it Alice Cooper?) and they did it because, supposedly, they had been listening to "satanic" heavy metal/rock music... and I remember when the public freaked out after NWA's "F*ck the Police" gained national notoriety... the result? A bunch of clueless politicians (Al Gore being one of them) took advantage of the free publicity and made a bunch of ridiculous speeches demanding more regulation for the recording industry (and even supported censoring lyrics/music).

Fortunately, the recording industry convinced the politicians and public that they would police themselves and we got the joke of an "explicit lyrics" label on tapes and CDs (these were always the ones you wanted to buy as a young person, of course). This is the same reason we have ratings on games (outrage over GTA in particular can be thanked for that stupid development).

Up until now, it has amounted to little more than stupid little labels and a (sometimes) minor inconvenience for younger gamers who are trying to buy a MA (17+) game. With the way the media works now, though (and the way videos can go viral), the potential fallout is much greater than warning labels and minor inconveniences. Stuff like Mittani's stupid comments are just another example that clueless politicians and moralizing nuts like Nancy Grace can point to as they scream "VIDEO GAMES AND THE INTERNETS NEED TO BE REGULATED MORE HARSHLY!!!"

Originally posted by GTwander

Can't believe I read all that, but very good observations above post. (@Mustupha)

I believe the main issue here is that these internet tough guys are blurring the line between in-game behavior, and what you should do in public. Let me throw out an example;

If one of these guys were to mouth off at a rival while *at* the fanfest, only to be reminded that he is now within strangling distance, his reaction would be "calm down, it just a game, tard!"... though, it stopped being a game once you walked away from the PC.

It's like they feel secure enough with their buddies being present to carry the weight of an asshole with them wherever they go, and the kind of actions made by this Mitanni guy are enough to get him shitcanned from whatever real job he may have. Though, I highly doubt any GS higher-up actually works. The whole organization is a pyramid scheme.

Walls of text are what I do. I realize few read them, but it's always nice to see a couple do from time to time. Thanks.

RE: your post... yeah, that's what I mean. Online hazing/trolling/whatever is all well and good, but the whole "in the flesh" nature of what happened here is clearly over the line. I believe it also showcases a real danger with any competitive online environment where harassment is normal. We're all living on borrowed time if this kind of stuff keeps happening. I hate "slippery slope" arguments, but I still feel we're only a few suicides away from stuff like this leading to an end to the anonymity parade.

@Nilenya -- I generally agree with what you are saying (despite what I said in the mini-novella), but to chalk up his massive ego to too much booze ignores that his comments came from the inclusion of the complaints of the miner in his slides. Even if he was drunk when he made that slide, which I doubt he was, it still shows forethought and a premeditated willingness to mock the miner's suicide comments publicly. The actual "if you want him to kill himself, here's his name...." stuff he said as an afterthought was likely booze + too much ego, but I think certain topics are just off limits for public ridicule (another player mentioning depressions/suicide being one of them, even if that other player is a lamer too).

A few thoughts which have probably all been said before in some way, shape, or form:

1) GS and Mittani are well known for this kind of crap. This is nothing new and I'm sure encouraging this kind of griefing is all part of his self-important "ART OF WAR" approach to EvE. It's the public nature of the comments and the severity of them, drunken joking aside, that is causing the current shitstorm. That and the fact that he's so full of himself and hubris that he would even "go there" in joking about suicide like this and thinks it's funny to do so in the first place.

2) Furthermore, his apology is anything but sincere and repentent when you consider that he gives himself an out for taking responsibility ("I was so drunk I didn't even remember it" <--- the lame ass excuse of a CHILD) and that he blames being drunk for the comment, but as others have pointed out, he was sober enough to make slides containing the details of this episode, so it shows forethought and that he knew PRECISELY what he was doing (i.e., mocking another player for being a QQ'ing bitch). Also, drinking just lowers inhibitions, meaning that a person's actions when drunk reflect their true thoughts and personality more than "the alcohol did it all" excuse would have us believe....

3) The miner in question doesn't really get my sympathy considering he was running 22 ships and was likely just saying what he said to try to gain sympathy from an organization known for relishing the misery of "pubbies".... In all honesty, I think playing any game that rabidly (22 ships/accounts) and investing that much value in any activity within it is probably a major reason the miner was getting divorced in the first place. The miner is probably way too absorbed in the game and, in all honesty, it's probably not a terrible thing if people ruin his day IG and he's actually forced to go outside and get some sun more than once a month. That said, it is just subhuman to wish suicide and death on anybody, all joking aside. It is never deserved, despite what a douche the person is. The ability to dehumanize the players on the other end of the keyboard and act like a total asshole is one of the most disgusting aspects of internet anonymity, and Alex's doing so publicly (even at a fanfest) is crossing that line.

4) All of the supporters of Mittens and internet tough guys who keep epeening and parrotting the pathetic cyber machismo "Harden the Fuck Up -- HTFU" bullshit to defend this kind of crap aren't doing Mittani (or EvE) any favors. You are just showing what a large number of players the game has who lack sensitivity and the ability to distinguish right from wrong (bordering on the psychopathic/sociopathic). For those of us who are older, it's pretty easy to guess the nature of the people behind this kind of false bravado -- i.e., many of them are probably people who act like such hardasses when behind a keyboard and who lord their "power" over others in a virtual world because they have very little power in real life (there are always exceptions, of course). Still, when you guys keep perpetuating this stupid prick-waving, it makes it seem like EvE is little more than a playground for basement dwelling neckbeards (who had their milk money stolen a few too many times when they were younger in school) to inflict all the pent up rage and anger they have held inside for all these years. In other words, your "hard edge" is making the game look bad because, honestly, anybody who has to try that hard to make a point of how callous and uncaring they are strike a lot of us outsiders as scared children with ginormous "little men"/inferiority complexes.

5) I say all of this being a complete nerd and geek myself. I am socially awkward, I'm no "tough guy" and I can be a cruel P.O.S. to people online too, but I would never encourage somebody to kill themselves (or solicit others to do so). You know why? Because I am old enough and have seen enough shit in my time that I realize these kinds of actions actually DO have an effect in RL sometimes. Yes, even online shit... despite how often all of you say "oh, it's just the internet, anybody who takes it seriously is stupid".... it DOES matter sometimes. More specifically, I am an educator and I have actually experienced the consequences of "harmless" online insults and harassment (we've had a few students in my district kill themselves over the years, one was even from our school).... She was not my student (same grade level that I teach though and many of my students knew her and were close friends with her and were devastated, to say the least), but it DOES matter, you assholes. This isn't just a "consequence free" zone where you can spout whatever shit you want and think it doesn't matter because "it's all online." Shit that happens here does matter and does spill over into the real world, and if The Mittani's and internet toughguys fail to realize this, I guarantee the current "cyber bullying" laws (and proposed legislation) will seem like a walk in the park to what regulators will shove down our throat when somebody like this miner actually does off themselves because of shit like what GS does. In other words, I am saying all of the above because the internet is still semi-free, but if you abuse that freedom by acting like complete animals, we won't have anonymity for that much longer (case in point, look at what is happening in the UK with the crackdown on cyber harassment/bullying).

TL;DR -- The freedom of being anonymous, and the liberty to be an asshole, comes with responsibility. If people continue to abuse this kind of freedom and things keep getting worse, you can bet your bottom dollar that the powers that be will see to it all of our online activities are linked to our RL identity (and our actions here will have serious implications, and I'm not just talking about the current slaps on the wrist you can face for being a mean bastard online).

PS--I know much of our online activities are linkable to our RL identities, but imagine a world where we no longer have avatars or personas. Where our social security info (or your country's equivalent), our address, our name, our other personal info. is just one button push away for some publicly-sanctioned, pencil pushing bureaucrat who is looking to dish out a little "justice" to all the bad little trolls. I don't know about you, but I enjoy being able to create personas and express myself in various ways behind the mask of various online identities. I'd hate for the public to eventually push to "unmask" us all, or at least those of us who fall under their legal jurisdiction. It will happen, and soon, if this kind of crap keeps going from bad to worse (which is the current trend, I'm afraid).

OP reminds me of younger SW fans who rave about how much better episodes 1-3 are when compared to the original trilogy. They'll insist the original trilogy just isn't as good as the newer movies because of how much better the special FX are, how much flashier the battles are, how much faster the lightsaber fights are, etc. All you can do is sigh and shake your head.

Sometimes beauty (or "epicness" in this case) really is in the eyes of the beholder. It is almost impossible to communicate how special the original trilogy was, and how *EPIC* its effects, stories, and battles were for its time. It takes a special person to be able to watch an older movie, or play an older game, for the first time and to be able to put that movie/game into the context of when it first released and have a sense of what made it so amazing and groundbreaking for its time. Sure, even back then there were people who didn't care for SW and who liked other movies instead (and there are even some younger fans now who are able to realize how much better episodes 4-6 are compared to 1-3). It doesn't lessen the sadness that I feel when I realize I can't communicate the "epicness" of the old in a way a person who didn't experience it would comprehend though.

In other words, some people understand that "each age is a dream that is dying, / Or one that is coming to birth." Some do not. And never the twain shall meet, I'm afraid.

Originally posted by forest-nl

Im glad i saw the 5 video's a themepark trying to be sandbox and it looks terible also and yet another korean grinder with awefull looking fake world and characters.

After seeing those 5 video;s i know i won't be playing Archeage, at least this way it rescue me from follow another grindy themebox. Darkfall is so much better then this crap(this opinion offcorse from 5 videos ive seen from yogscast).

So many things ive seen in this video is eather dejavu(yet another...) or just looking terible and not interesting at all.

Those videos are hardly representative of the game. They mostly showcase the personalities and reactions of the Yogscast people, not the features and play mechanics. I think your reactions are coming from the impression that you are getting from the Yogscast people (who are noted for their affiliation with WoW), not ArcheAge.

If you really did watch all five videos, it should have been obvious that the Yogscast people had no idea what they were doing and had even less idea about the game itself. If it weren't for the player named "Acina" spoon-feeding them info and mats, they would have probably spent all five videos goofing around in the starter area.

I think it's quite amazing to dismiss a game based on five somewhat humorous, but quite uninformative, videos. Videos, no less, which are made by "personalities" whom are popular for capturing the feelings and reactions of your "average gamer." If AA is not for you, after considering such a ridiculously small (and poor) sample of videos, then go back to Darkfail and flex your e-peen with the rest of "hardcore" gamers there. I'll be happy to have one less person playing AA whom jumps to conclusions too quickly and whom spells atrociously (I mean, seriously, do you type with a mallet or something?).

Finally, if there are so many things you are seeing in the videos that give you a sense of deja vu, why not be specific and actually support what you are saying with EXAMPLES? You know.... take the time to actually list some of those things that strike you as familiar instead of making such a generic, unsupported claim. I'm sure you have complaints (we all do!), but again, I would suggest you check out some other videos of AA before arriving at such a hasty conclusion.

Even so, hopefully I *don't* see you around IG... ever.

Originally posted by Magter

Also on a related note, I don't know why people didn't like Civ5. I've only played Civ3 and Civ4 and both were great but I love the way that Civ5 has more layers than the previous ones. Civ3 and Civ4 were relatively easy,  especially Civ4 because of how easy it was to tech up and get ahead of your enemies. While in Civ5 you have to actually engage with the other nations and city-states if you want to get anything done.

What difficulty level were you playing at? I can tell you there are still Emperor (and higher) level games that prove exceptionally difficult (at least for me). I'm no fanatic though, so it's probably just a case of me sucking. Still, even Prince and higher can be a challenge if you have a poor starting spot or some bad luck at the start (e.g., random stack of barbarians spawn on your border).

P.S. I guess it's been changed since launch, but Civ5 boasted about being "streamlined" (not having more layers). Diplomacy was broken, the AI's ability to fight battles was broken, tech tree was UBER-simplified, and many of the aspects of Civ4 that added replayability (e.g., religion, corporations, espionage) were canned. From my perspective, Civ5 is feature-lite and the inclusion of some new features like city states and an AI that behaves like a two-year old in the throws of a temper tantrum doesn't mean much to me.

Not trying to change your mind or anything (to each their own, after all)... But, I am trying to understand how we could experiencing such different games xD

Originally posted by jtcgs

This is the reason why the man has not been able to TOUCH an MMORPG for 7 YEARS. He hasnt even been able to get funding for his Metaplace idea since 2006. Raph Koster needs to go away, stay away or at least be ignored by MMORPG makers.

Whoever thought it would be a good idea to listen to a man that actually says game makers should ignore what game players think should be shot in the head...its the very reason why the MMO market is filled with stale outdated ideas and is not moving forward as fast as it once was...too many companies listened to him from 2002-2006 and became trapped by his moronic ideas that they implimented into their games and became trapped by them.

Thankfully most new games out in the last year and coming out are not chaning themselves with his ideas.

Why would he need funding for an idea that has been defunct for nearly two years now? And, are you not aware that Playdom (i.e., Disney) bought Metaplace...?

I think you are misinterpreting what Raph said, or at the very least, what he meant. Time and time again, players clamor for things that are detrimental to their game world. You can watch videos of Sid Meier talking about tweaking the AI in Civ IV and he mentions how fickle and illogical "player logic" can be. What is more, the very stagnation you talk about in this genre is precisely because game makers are trying to listen to what players want too much (at least the majority of players). Given WoW's success, any game that doesn't feature instances, endgame raiding, geargrind, level grind, easy mode everything, etc. is met with howls of indignation from the WoW-zombies. In other words, whenever designers try something different from the cookie cutter themepark, they are met with a vocal minority of players who scream for more instances/l33t gear/etc. If more game makers made games that they thought were fun and stopped making the game that they thought players based on listening to players in focus groups/on forums/etc., then this genre would be a lot better off. And you know what Raph is doing in social gaming? He's being a pioneer, once again. He's not listening to what all of us want (and the people who beg him to go back to MMO's)... he's doing what he thinks is right. You know what? If the guy is happy, he's going to make something of much greater quality and depth than if he was trying to fulfill the expectations of others (i.e., you). And, he's right... social gaming is the next frontier and it makes perfect sense that a guy like him is on the forefront of the new developments in that field. Yes, most social games now suck, but I bet 5 years from now there will be some "hits" and in time, we will see the social gaming equivalent of UO (i.e., a game that breaks all previous notions of what is possible in the genre).

Oh, and to say he "got where he is on the ideas of others" is a joke. That statement is true for *EVERY* accomplished person. We are not a rock/island... as Newton said, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Meaning, even one of the greatest minds in physics admitted that his great ideas and insights were borne on the backs of those who came before him. Without Copernicus and Galileo, there'd be no Netwon. Without Newton, no Einstein. Without Einstein, no Hawking... and so on. Undoubtedly, Koster owes much to the earlier devs (e.g., Richard Garriott, Richard Bartle/Roy Trubshaw, etc.), just as the better devs now owe much to him. What is more, have you ever heard of the MUD-dev? It was a collaborative exchange of information, ideas, and insights by some of the industry leaders and Koster consistently cites it (and his colleagues) as sources of inspiration for various design choices. He also points out when various ideas were his and his alone. Most importantly, I've never seen him try to take full credit for implementing another person's ideas, and in fact, whenever people credit him for something he wasn't responsible for in his blog, he sets the record straight. Countless times I've heard him outright say "I stole this idea from another MUD", but you know what, he doesn't really mean it was "stolen." It's a way of saying that he used another person's idea and to point out the idea wasn't his.

Anyway, I have a feeling this will all fall on deaf ears. In any case, Koster is one of the better devs out there, especially when it comes to instructing and inspiring the current crop of game makers. His talks at game conferences are always insightful and frequently prophetic. If you don't care for what he offers, then move along, but I for one respect him and feel he is still contributing great things to the gaming community. Just because you fail to see that doesn't diminish his standing any. Hater gonna hate, after all.

Originally posted by Fikusthe4th

Is a virtual world really so hard to understand? Raph needs to blog on what makes one tick? This isnt common sense to everyone else?

Not quite what you are looking for, but you still might enjoy:

http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/07/03/the-commandments-of-online-worlds/

http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/03/19/should-virtual-worlds-change-the-real/

http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/09/10/virtual-worlds-in-the-ambient-cloud/

http://www.raphkoster.com/2010/02/26/are-virtual-worlds-over/

Taken from this aggregation of awesomeness... :)