I was so happy to see Images of MxO again (Vixens).  I luved that game and left EQ1&2, SWG and WoW for it.  I’m a Social/Explorer, and was disappointed to see MxO’s clubs deserted and that stupid telephone box made into a social hub.  Then I tried SWTOR and again I see it done.  A large Cantina was made in the first questing zone of Corellia, but did players use it?  No, they crammed into the hole in the wall cantina, in the trade district at the base of the Senate.

How would I support RP?  Create a large indoor multi room space.  Have it near banking, relevant economy(trade and crafting), and communications/distribution(mail).

Originally posted by Eivi
[edited] I would love it to be entirely free roam gear based.

again, nice write up :)

AKA “skip the leveling and jump straight to endgame”  remember endgame is where “Stats become fixed and you level hit points and damage via gear bonuses.”  I say no.  Leveling must stay.  When people complain about MMORPGs being dumbed down, they are referring to games with minimal leveling and quick jumps to max level.

Yes, a nice write up.

Don’t many of these kind of thread read, I want my play style to be invulnerable and do max damage.  I don’t want to see the class that is the counter / antithesis to my class in game.

I am sick and tired of reading:

“Stealth Melee DPS class with max armour rating at all levels. Dual wielding two-handed weapons.  Immunity to all forms of crowd control with the ability to apply an unblockable crowd control skill.  With the ability to out dps any healing."

Tanks : High defense, low dps

melee dps : low defense, high dps (+stealth for the ninja looters)

Range Dps : low defense, high dps (+ pets, so they can group without  annoying pc’s)

I always play a healer, and the warrior healer is also a favorite of mine.  In the beginning and for most of its existence, Catholic priest were not celibate.  It wasn’t until their offspring were bleeding the church dry from inheritance that the rules changed.  I will leave it up to online scholars to look up the date that this happened.

BTW all the themepark players are playing/paying a themepark game right now.  Only sandbox gamers have the free time to answer polls.

Originally posted by Po_gg

Why is there always a ninja rolling 99? Why?

:)

 

One might say, that is how Ninjas roll.

Originally posted by apocoluster
Lol Po_gg's comment was funnier than the coment

Did you mean to say?

Lol Po_gg's comment was funnier than the Comic?

Originally posted by Margulis
It's really interesting that people are calling these good numbers when it was originally said that if at any time they have under 1 million subs it would be considered a total failure.

You are wrong. This is what was originally said.

"At half a million subscribers, the game is substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing we would write home about," EA CEO John Riccitiello said in a conference call accompanying EA's third quarter fiscal earnings report Feb 2011.

Most EULA have wording of the sort that says, if you negatively affect our customer base and therefore revenue stream we can take action against you.  Again there is usually a section that says just because an exploit exists you are not free to use it.  Any lawyer or cop will tell you that in a free country, your freedom ends when it interferes with someone else's freedom.  Meaning you don’t have the freedom to be dickish (again a Wheatonisms).

The next time I read a thread here, promoting an exploit, and calling it a strategy. I will post a link to this article.  The next time a read a phishing thread for one of these types of games I will post a link to this article.  I will let these blatant exploiters and greifers know that their membership email in HOGG is on the way.

BTW TSW didn’t scare me.  I like the experiment idea, but I don’t think the  time frame will go over.  Imaging waiting in line for 364 days to ride a 24 hour rollercoaster.  I think a one month return cycle is more doable.  If the community enjoys the attack then is come back every month to be enjoyed for a week and not 24 hours.

Originally posted by Taldier

Originally posted by Konfess

...But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side.  

I'm pretty sure they've considered it.  You arent exactly coming up with some genius new concept here.

In fact its one of many bonuses for a tri-realm system.  It takes a lot of imbalance for a single realm to just dominate the combined forces of the other two.  And if it ever actually does come to that I have no doubt they have plans in mind.

I feel like MJ has already hinted at things regarding the Depths, making sure to always describe them as "alive".  I see that as a potential balancing function if you can make the world itself fight back harder against a certain realm with traps and whatnot if that realm starts just completely overwhelming the other two.

Originally posted by Mkilbride

Originally posted by Konfess

Players flee the losing side. ...  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.

They absolutely considered it. It's three-realms. With that, there is no one side always dominating.

 

Also, once you create a character on a realm, for that server, you are LOCKED TO THAT REALM.

 

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Konfess
Players flee the losing side.  

I get frustrated at times by how many players have not played Dark Age of Camelot.  But let's use that model and welcome new players to three realm RvR:

...Where one side tends to be very well led (raid leaders), one side tends to be small and cliquish, and there's an "average" population side.  In three realm you'll quickly learn that even with one overpowered  realm (even a smaller realm can have 1 good prime time raid leader and make your realm cry rivers)....you still have to look over your shoulder.

 

Getting sandwiched between two realms is an every day occurance in live Dark Age of Camelot.

I did play DAoC, but not long, I think it was three or four months.  At the time one side dominated.  The people I was playing with switched sides, because they had talk to others doing the same.  I stayed because I don't care about winning, and it is a family trait to root for the underdog.  But I soon realized that losing isn't fun at all, or playing with a bunch of whining losers.

My second and longest experience with a three realm system was the original PlanetSide.  Realize that PS was one of my all time favorite games.  But I layer TR, the balanced realm and least favorite amongst winning players.

Let me assure you that in a 3 realm system that the weak do not turn against the strong.  Like in nature the strong turn against the weak.  

In 2001, if your account was locked to a realm, you just bought the game again made a new account for the new realm and cancelled the old one.  In todays economy I suppose you just call up the customer service and demand a realm change or else you cancel your account.

If someone made a game that these modern race to endgame gamers couldn’t stand or tolerate, but was exactly like the Olden day, would you play it and sub to it?  I’m talking a 3D game whose graphics reminding you of the late 90’s.  Where getting to max level isn’t even possible playing 24/7 for the first year.  Where the quest givers tell you to find them an item X, but they don’t know where in the world it is, or what mob(s) drop(s) it.

Now I’m not saying that it will have the exact same features as any previous game, just reminiscent of a time long past. I’m now closer to fifty than I am thirty when I hung out in clubs drinking 7n7’s, but I don’t think oldtimers have the stamina to even play a game like they used to any more.
 

From what MJ has said on this site in other thread, it is clear he is not worried about game population affecting RvR.  If there is a single server, then all players will be available for RvR.  I think this is the case.  The graphics test demos they have shown are of very high player density. Much higher than what an MMO typically supports on the screen at any one time.  If a realm had a typical level distribution, then this would limit player access to the RvR.  I am again guessing that player level will not be a factor.  

But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side. Once it becomes apparent that one side is always winning, either due to player distribution, or game mechanics.  Then the losing side will suffer player exodus, either to the winning side or other games.  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.
 

The funny thing is for the fans of CD strategy to work it assumes that tanks make a line in a choke point and healer stand at their max range away from damage.  But if along with CD was added say a tallet line for range DPS increased range?  Say a max of 2.5x so that line of healers way over there is now in range of a  range DPS attack or CC.  More likely they will be in range of siege weapons.

The “Fun” of CD is in “exploiting” it again an enemy that has no counter to it.  If and when a counter exists, the “Fun” goes away.
 

Originally posted by Yyrkoon_PoM

 

You could take it one step further, and create a GW2 style DE by seting a hidden timer once the quest is given and if the player(s) do not kill enough rats all the critters/animals in the zone switch from being neutral to being agressive (even towards NPCs). This would then trigger another set of quests to find the "cure" and gather the required items and give it to someone who needs to be kept alive while they apply the "cure". 

 

This way a simple kill x rats can morph into a multistep quest:

1. Collect x ammount of "disseased" items from any/all the affected animals.

2. Once disease is known ... collect x amont of items or craft x amount of  "cure"

3. Keeps generic healer npc alive while cure is given to animals.

 

You could make it very dynamic using scripts and DB flags to adjust hidden timer/affected animals/disease type/cure ... etc

 

Span that accross all the little "fetch" quests and it becomes a little more intersting. based on the creativity of the scripter and the freedom they are given all sorts of awesomeness could happen.

 

I agree with dress it up better comments, it is not that hard and makes things better.

You do realize that you just described the chain questing system used by swtor?  You have just given voice to an opinion I have had for some time now.  GW2 stole their DE functionality from swtor.

BTW from your list:

1. is a Kill X of Y mob(s)

2. Collect x of y item drop(s)

3. is both a Escort x npc(s) from location y to location z, and a Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)

You wrapped up all four quest types in one chain.  Now I am not saying that games don’t need better writing.  I’m saying I don’t believe there is more than the four identified quests types.

FYI, I am working on my own game.  I decided each faction would have three origin story lines, separated by societal class.  The tiers could be unlocked by leveling a char to an unlock level like 75%-90% of max, Cash Shop unlock, or Subscription.  The rural zone and story would have the new character visit several town members to learn basic skills, get familiar with zone layout, and get starting quests (Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)).  This storyline would be heavy on tutorial and hand holding.  This first half of your characters life will be growing up on a farm. It would mirror as I imagine it Luke Skywalkers early life.  Preparing the field for planting (Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s) & Escort x npc(s) from location y to location z).  Defend the crops from predators (Kill X of Y mob(s)).  Maintain the fields and farm structures and equipment (Collect x of y item drop(s), & Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)).  Lastly you would harvest the crops and take them to market(all four quest types).  The mobs would be low aggression and non-packing attackers.

The second tier or suburban origin story line would be tutorial and hand-holding free, it would be considered normal difficulty level.  The story would fit the setting but mirror the lower level.  Get familiar with the zone, learn starting skills, get starting quest.  quest would prepare you for your starting job or role.  Mobs would be more aggressive and work in teams or packs.

The third and possibly final tier would be urban and or upper class, this would be the hardcore mode.  I still think that there should be zone familiarization, and character introduction but how I and not yet sure. Right now it is still Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s).  It may evolve into Discover x npc of y npc(s).  Mobs will be most aggressive in this zone, actively hunting the player if need be.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Konfess

...

Why do we need to expand this list? Quests is about dressing these 4 things up in different ways. Look at movies .. how many movies are based on "heroes beating the bad guy as an underdog"? It works.

May be MMOs should follow SP games better ... SP games have no problem making these 4 things fun and exciting.

 

I said it before and I’ll say it again, I am perfectly fine with these four standard quest lines.  But obviously this thread exists because some are not fine with them.  The only reason we are fine with them in SP games is because they are meant to be played for 40 hours or less.  While MMOs are meant to be played for years.  The failure of games that just reworded or upped the animation of  these four quest genre proves that gamers can’t be fooled by trickery for long, or only a small percentage of them can.

The only reason I demand that people try and come up with alternative is to prove once and for all how futile it is to even try and expand this list, or to keep complaining about the list.

What does this thread tell me?  That there is no alternative to the basic four quest types.

1. Kill x of y mob(s)

2. Collect x of y item drop(s)

3. Deliver x item(s) to y npc(s)

4. Escort x npc(s) from location y to location z.

But no one has come up with a quest description that adds to this list.  Every example is no more than a rewording of this basic list.  If your quest idea is Escort an npc to a location, and that location is either the good guy or the bad guy.  The quest is still a class 4 quest.

The goal of this thread is not how can games fool us into tolerating the four basic quest types.  The real goal is how to expand the list.  If all you can come up with is change the quest text, and make the mobs more dynamic and animated.  Then just through your hand up and admit defeat, because the list will never expand.

Good mystery takes good writers.  The lack of good mystery can only mean that there is a lack of good writers.  I just watched last weeks episode of “The Following”.  The mother was just reunited with her kidnapped son.  In my opinion the first thing out of her mouth to the boy should have been, “Joe Carol is not your father, FBI agent Ryan is your father.  You remember him, you ran away from him when he came to rescue you.”  But that is not what happens, why?  Because of bad writers.

Good writers are expensive, and bad writers are cheap.  Businessmen always chose cheap over good.  The Businessmen’s goal is to have a product that is nothing, and make the customer pay through the nose for it.  By nothing I mean No material cost, No development cost, No Maintenance cost, absolutely No cost whatsoever.  These Businessmen get so focused on this cost free goal that they run past minimum acceptable quality of product.