2008 Reader's Choice Awards - Best Expansion: Winner

Grats again Turbine!

MoM was awesome

Grats Turbine. Your community really apreciates it. Specially not having to wait at midnight to buy the expansion since it was already download and sitting confortably in my PC at launch time.

*waits for other fanboys who have never got a character with enought level to venture into Moria to come ranting how the frozen king was alot better*

*flame jacket on*

Congrats to Turbine!

This expansion was really well done and the fact that there will be steady Books (mini expansions) to compliment it make it all the more exciting. 

Turbine has handled this franchise remarkably well.  From first launch of LOTRO, their free expansion, and now this one and just about everything with this game has gone very smoothly.  Of course you'll  have the D&D online crybabies, some of the AC fringe, and the others that saw the movies and think they could do better at designing and creating an MMO with the Middle Earth whining or bashing Turbine.

Congrats to Turbine!   The visual world they created is par excellance and they maintained the basic storyline through Moria (and beyond).  Just one clarification - Shadows of Angmar did have a balrog already, so having one in Moria, while cool, was not a truly new achievement.  Now the Watcher in the Water - that is cool!

Originally posted by firithnorm

Congrats to Turbine!   The visual world they created is par excellance and they maintained the basic storyline through Moria (and beyond).  Just one clarification - Shadows of Angmar did have a balrog already, so having one in Moria, while cool, was not a truly new achievement.  Now the Watcher in the Water - that is cool!

Aye, but some people, like me, never got a chance to see in SoA.  I'm glad they made it "accessible" to everyone.  I think that in itself is a thumbs up...giving everyone the chance to at least see one.

Grats Turbine.  But I hate you!  I hate that you have me hooked on your game and that it taunts me in my sleep, waking me in a cold sweat.  The Eye, ever watchful, haunts me at every turn.  I hate it.  Thank you!

P.S.: Glad I could post a comment before the haters come and complain.

Mines of Moria is indeed a very good expansion! I really hope the first content update fixes some of the current issues thou!

Keep up the good work Turbine, it will be interesting to see what their new expansion will be and include!

Congrats turbine pioneers of the horizontal expansion! Masters of free content! Kings of polish!

MoM is the best example of expanding your game, FOR ALL LEVELS and player types, not just dumping things on at the end! They know how to expand their game so well, even blizzard copies it! (looking at you barbershops, achievements, and 3-5 man instances!)

Gratz MoM players. I wish Blizzard would learn from this and make their expansions more like MoM, more content for ALL levels!

 I was under the impression that the Moria content was 50+. Is there a new area that was added that I don't know about?

Originally posted by skai

 I was under the impression that the Moria content was 50+. Is there a new area that was added that I don't know about?

They added two new classes which can be accessed by anyone with the expansion (as well as two character slots to accomodate those who have full character slots).

Originally posted by skai

 I was under the impression that the Moria content was 50+. Is there a new area that was added that I don't know about?

Um, 2 new classes, one zone before 50, that doesn't even require the expansion to go to, crafting guilds, a completely revamped and expanded trait system, an ass ton of new items and quests......

Content does not only mean zone. B ut on that note, last year alone the added 4 new, entire zones to the game... FREE.

 Ah ok, I've been casually leveling a warden (couple hours a week at most) using pre-expansion content.  So I knew about most of those.  Aren't the crafting guilds for high-level crafters only? They wouldn't let me join.  Also curious about which zone was added.

Reason I asked was mostly due to the comparisons made to Blizzard expansions which made me wonder if I had been misinformed.

Originally posted by skai

 Ah ok, I've been casually leveling a warden (couple hours a week at most) using pre-expansion content.  So I knew about most of those.  Aren't the crafting guilds for high-level crafters only? They wouldn't let me join.  Also curious about which zone was added.

 

Reason I asked was mostly due to the comparisons made to Blizzard expansions which made me wonder if I had been misinformed.

 

 

Crafting guilds are about mid-level crafting wise (based on your crafting level, not adventure).  New zone that came with the expansion is Eregion, it does not require the expansion to go to.

Expect about 2-4 new zones, and 2-4 new features to be added this year, free.

Lets also not forget, if you buy mines of moria, you do not need to have, or buy, the original game. Its included in the new box, for an old user, or a completely new one.
 

 Congrats Turbine.  Another well deserved award...by another landslide. 

I expect to see another mmorpg.com award early next week. 

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by skai

 I was under the impression that the Moria content was 50+. Is there a new area that was added that I don't know about?

 

Um, 2 new classes, one zone before 50, that doesn't even require the expansion to go to, crafting guilds, a completely revamped and expanded trait system, an ass ton of new items and quests......

Content does not only mean zone. B ut on that note, last year alone the added 4 new, entire zones to the game... FREE.

Moria is an okay expansion but it is being overly hyped here. I dislike World of Warcraft but they did in their last expansion provide a new starting area and new races, so they too provided a little content that was not all at the top .. just as lotro did. lotro did provide about the same amount or maybe less. You have to remember also lotro is a tiny game compared to EQ and WoW in size. It is also very very casual with no end game except for one raid boss which is a little tiny raid size.

I think the expansion was okay but they really lack at least one big long raid. They really didn't provide that much content compared to other MMORPGs, it looks like a lot it being a smaller game though. I do think they have taken a step in the wrong direction with these new class line traits .. a copy of WoW's broken talent tree system that allows you to modify you role to some degree. I dislike this, lotro had solid class definitions now they have went to muddying them like WoW. This is my unbias feelings, I play neither of these games at this time but have experienced both. I am waiting on an EQ group based game but I think I will be waiting a long time. :P

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

I honestly though mmorpg.com was read by a much wider playerbase than it really is, but I guess we all can't be right all the time. It's a good thing I'm trying to only come here for updates on MMO's in general now, because that's something the mmorpg.com staff is pretty good at keeping us up-to-date on.

I really apologize to those who will read my post and get bent out of shape over it, but look at this from my point of view. I looked forward to these awards to see what the majority of MMO player out there thought about the game. I've viewed these awards for a few years now. Only now I've noticed that less than .01 % of all MMO players out there actually voted on these rewards. Knowing that less than .01% of the MMO population voted for the rewards, how special do these nominations really mean to people now?

I have a lifetime account, and I have to dissagree.

Mom was an expansion that I gave a "C" to.  It offered 2 new zones and a very small 3rd zone.  The crafting guilds were something a bit different..  However there were all around nerf's were handed out especially to the mini class.  Yes two new classes were handed out.  Another nerf was to those of us who already had mounts.  Guess what they don't work in the mines so now you got to get rep to get a new mount.  This new mount is a hideous goat, looks like a badly created thing that resembles a  waun-ton from star wars with 4 legs.  The new legendary weapons have totally ruined weapon crafting. The economy in game has been out of wack ever since.  We crash almost daily now in certain areas of the mines.  Last night 2800 folks had to wait for an hour before logging in.  There have been many problems with the new expansion they are still trying to fix.

I did not vote in this selection as there was a none of the above option listed.

I know a lot of folks were happy about mom, I am probably one of the few who felt let down by it, I have the lifetime account so I still play. 

This expansion felt to me the way that CU felt in SWG, and we have watched a lot of the mini class type players quit due to the fact of the nerf's.

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

I honestly though mmorpg.com was read by a much wider playerbase than it really is, but I guess we all can't be right all the time. It's a good thing I'm trying to only come here for updates on MMO's in general now, because that's something the mmorpg.com staff is pretty good at keeping us up-to-date on.

I really apologize to those who will read my post and get bent out of shape over it, but look at this from my point of view. I looked forward to these awards to see what the majority of MMO player out there thought about the game. I've viewed these awards for a few years now. Only now I've noticed that less than .01 % of all MMO players out there actually voted on these rewards. Knowing that less than .01% of the MMO population voted for the rewards, how special do these nominations really mean to people now?

 

Out of the 4k of voters, the majority thought that MoM was the best expansion.

Somehow, I think your response would have been vastly different if Lich King would have won. ;)

how oh how didn't Everquest's expansion win. This site has bias I tell you.

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by skai

 I was under the impression that the Moria content was 50+. Is there a new area that was added that I don't know about?

 

Um, 2 new classes, one zone before 50, that doesn't even require the expansion to go to, crafting guilds, a completely revamped and expanded trait system, an ass ton of new items and quests......

Content does not only mean zone. B ut on that note, last year alone the added 4 new, entire zones to the game... FREE.

 

Moria is an okay expansion but it is being overly hyped here. I dislike World of Warcraft but they did in their last expansion provide a new starting area and new races, so they too provided a little content that was not all at the top .. just as lotro did. lotro did provide about the same amount or maybe less. You have to remember also lotro is a tiny game compared to EQ and WoW in size. It is also very very casual with no end game except for one raid boss which is a little tiny raid size.

I think the expansion was okay but they really lack at least one big long raid. They really didn't provide that much content compared to other MMORPGs, it looks like a lot it being a smaller game though. I do think they have taken a step in the wrong direction with these new class line traits .. a copy of WoW's broken talent tree system that allows you to modify you role to some degree. I dislike this, lotro had solid class definitions now they have went to muddying them like WoW. This is my unbias feelings, I play neither of these games at this time but have experienced both. I am waiting on an EQ group based game but I think I will be waiting a long time. :P

LOTRO is no longer as small as you think it is (its also much younger than anything you listed) , with 4 entire zones added last year alone, and Moria take about 6 itself, not to mention everything added to the east of Moria, it would be interesting to see the total landmass now. I think many would be surprised, especially with huge zones such as Evendom.

Also, what new race? The new class that can only be used if you have participated in the previous level cap? That one? (DK)

 As far as endgame, people do not seem to realize that there is no need for "endgame", LOTRO is not about endgame, never was. This is a conditioning of the Wow Generation of MMO players, conditioning that says the end is the only part that matters. LOTRO is about story, and the journey through it, not some "End game" that is solely there to take up your time while new content is piled on top of the old. Turbine also believes in horizontal expansion of their games, not vertical, as evidenced by MoM and constant free updates of zones and features over the year. But, you are also forgetting the power of legendary items (when you speak of "end game"), and their use, and avenue of continued power gain and leveling to level cap players, not to mention customization.

Everyone likes different things; you want a long raid..... The player base of LOTRO does not. Turbine knows its player base, and its target audience, and makes the game for them. They do this very well. In fact! LOTRO has 3-5-12 man instances; they also have 25 man raids, something blizzard has recently decided to mimic (Not to mention deeds, barbershops, and legendary items (BOA) ).

I think many MMO players do not realize how influential LOTRO and turbine are on the MMO genre to date. You can thank Turbine for the standard MMO UI (hot bars and the like), as well as many other things to long to list here.

LOTRO Trait system is NOT a tree system, it is nothing like Wows system, and is now even more so distanced by trait sets, and the additions to it. Considering that each class already has more utility, less of a "you are a tank and that’s all you will ever be" class design, the trait system expands classes to all most "skill based" system like customization. You simply cannot compare the utility and uniqueness of the classes in LOTRO to any other game, if you do, you will be in for a shock. There is barely a holy trinity here, and thats a good thing.

I would say perhaps you have not played recently, because your comments to me, sound like you played for just a little bit, didn’t get very far, and potentially came in thinking the game was a Wow clone, with misconceptions.

Gratz to Turbine! they deserve it

mmh, I really need to resub for lotro ^^

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 LOTRO has 3-5-12 man instances; they also have 25 man raids, something blizzard has recently decided to mimic (Not to mention deeds, barbershops, and legendary items (BOA) ).

I like LOTRO enough that I feel lying about it would be doing it a disservice. So allow me to correct you about 25 man raids.  Blizzard introduced them in Burning Crusade which came out before LOTRO.  Barbershops were found in Everquest years ago and I'm sure someone will point our an even earlier instance of it.  The LOTRO Deeds system have next to nothing to do with Blizzard's achievement which seems to have derived its inspiration from Microsoft's achievement system more than anything else.  Blizzard has nothing like the legendary items system from LOTRO.

Originally posted by nomadian

how oh how didn't Everquest's expansion win. This site has bias I tell you.

I'm sick of seeing EQ expansions too.. they lack content and anything exciting and they throw out like 10 a year.

Yay, Mines of Moria, well deserved! I play for the community, beautiful game design and vistas, fun class gameplay and the epic story.  A few things need to be tweaked. Like a seperate holding bag for you extra legendaries. But for the most part I have been overjoyed with with MoM. Already looking forward to the first area expansion, Lothlorien (Full area).

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Originally posted by qombi
I think the expansion was okay but they really lack at least one big long raid. They really didn't provide that much content compared to other MMORPGs, it looks like a lot it being a smaller game though.

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Originally posted by jmh1981

 

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Originally posted by qombi
I think the expansion was okay but they really lack at least one big long raid. They really didn't provide that much content compared to other MMORPGs, it looks like a lot it being a smaller game though.

---

Just wanted to post in response to this that a lot of people may have missed it (and for all I know the plan may have been changed now) but the first free Book update, Book 7, is supposed to include both the new region of Lothlórien and a 6 boss raid with supporting instances. If I remember the quote from the MoM beta forums right.

 

Hey how dare you going and peaking my interest! You know times are tough and money is tight, now I may have to subscribe again soon. : P

congrats turbine they definitly deserved to win this award. very good expansion to an already very fun and polished game

Grats Turbine. Well deserved. Wish all the bent out of shape WOW players weren't such sore losers, and yes I agree that I have a feeling if the results were different that all these people saying that MMORPG's awards aren't really big would be singing a different toon if Lich King had won. WOW. Just picked up on something Witch King and Lich King. Go ahead and make a comment about how LOTR is a WOW clone. Double Dog dare ya. LOL.

Originally posted by duwat1982d

Grats Turbine. Well deserved. Wish all the bent out of shape WOW players weren't such sore losers, and yes I agree that I have a feeling if the results were different that all these people saying that MMORPG's awards aren't really big would be singing a different toon if Lich King had won. WOW. Just picked up on something Witch King and Lich King. Go ahead and make a comment about how LOTR is a WOW clone. Double Dog dare ya. LOL.

Grats turbine!

Honestly people we all now these things depend on the amount of your fans that vote on it, so lets just drop it, its just an award its not gonna change the future lol.

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

I honestly though mmorpg.com was read by a much wider playerbase than it really is, but I guess we all can't be right all the time. It's a good thing I'm trying to only come here for updates on MMO's in general now, because that's something the mmorpg.com staff is pretty good at keeping us up-to-date on.

I really apologize to those who will read my post and get bent out of shape over it, but look at this from my point of view. I looked forward to these awards to see what the majority of MMO player out there thought about the game. I've viewed these awards for a few years now. Only now I've noticed that less than .01 % of all MMO players out there actually voted on these rewards. Knowing that less than .01% of the MMO population voted for the rewards, how special do these nominations really mean to people now?

 

Well, I don't think people can blame you for having an opinion, especially since you stated it clearly without embellisment.

But to be honest I think the idea that Turbine has one 3 of these awards speaks volumes for this site as it seems that this site tends to be skewed more toward the pvp/sandbox crowd.

But again, this is not to give Turbine a trophy or or monetary award. Anyone who came to this site within the alotted time could have voted.

It's just a bit of recognition. Do people dislike Turbine or their work? Sure. But if WoW or Eve would have won you would have seen equal posts as to how those games didn't deserve it.

How many "wow is the antichrist" posts pop up on this site? Or "who can play eve, it's a gankfest version of Excel that puts me to sleep"

Everyone has their favorites and everyone has their reasons. It just so happens that this time around a good many people felt that Turbine deserved this modest bit of recognition.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by duwat1982d

Grats Turbine. Well deserved. Wish all the bent out of shape WOW players weren't such sore losers, and yes I agree that I have a feeling if the results were different that all these people saying that MMORPG's awards aren't really big would be singing a different toon if Lich King had won. WOW. Just picked up on something Witch King and Lich King. Go ahead and make a comment about how LOTR is a WOW clone. Double Dog dare ya. LOL.

 

Grats turbine!

Honestly people we all now these things depend on the amount of your fans that vote on it, so lets just drop it, its just an award its not gonna change the future lol.

 You tell them Scale.
 

This poll is rigged, Lotro posted on their main webpage to vote for them.

Originally posted by pileopoop

This poll is rigged, Lotro posted on their main webpage to vote for them.

How does that make it rigged if they did that? Blizzard could have done the same thing. Did Turbine make the decision on who won? Please explain it to me because I must be missing something. Not seeing how it makes it rigged.

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

 

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

Currently Playing: WoW

of course you would ... i mean how could anything ever EVER beat the "bestest game out there" the love of your life the game you masturbate to WoW.

what a farce i mean LOTRO must have paid all its members to come and rig the contest because nothing could ever ever beat WoW! i mean its just not possible ... everything blizzard does is great, nothing can touch it!

Am i right?

and WoW players wonder why many can't stand them or WoW, heres a clue its not the game so much its the "blizzard did it so it must be the only way to do it" attitude.

Congrats Turbine! Maybe I'll try it (still got a live time account). As long as wow doesnt win anything it doesnt serve, I'm happy. Against buying awards.

Great game althought once again this sites anti WoW hate has shown in full colors.

A good measure of a product, is the sales figures.  The same is true for a service.  If you have one service where 60-70% of the market subscribes to that service, then clearly that is the leader for that market.  11.5 million subscribers is pretty significant.

I have to say after playing Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan, Warhammer, and World of Warcraft that by far World of Warcraft is the best offering available so far.  The quality of the game far exceeds that of other products.  The variety and balance of the game is far superior.  The graphics may not be as realistic as other games, but it's bright and cheery, and the game is just fun to play.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Great game althought once again this sites anti WoW hate has shown in full colors.

LOL how so? because blizzard should win every award out there? they could package crap in a box and have 4 million people buy it and thus winning the best expac? because 4 million people bought it?

best expac is about quality not quantity.

Originally posted by Ravanos

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

 

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

Currently Playing: WoW

 

of course you would ... i mean how could anything ever EVER beat the "bestest game out there" the love of your life the game you masturbate to WoW.

what a farce i mean LOTRO must have paid all its members to come and rig the contest because nothing could ever ever beat WoW! i mean its just not possible ... everything blizzard does is great, nothing can touch it!

Am i right?

and WoW players wonder why many can't stand them or WoW, heres a clue its not the game so much its the "blizzard did it so it must be the only way to do it" attitude.

 

No buddy we, and im using that term very lightly as there are many retards in WoW and other games for that matter, never say or believe WoW's way is the best. Blizzard unlike most companies put out a game that is fun and playable for every time of player from elitist down to casual. No other game can boast that. The only flaw that is in the game is that the pvp is a sideshow but even that is suprior to LOTRO. Once again i don't hate this game at all just some of the ignorant people like yourself who claim to know it all. As of now LOTRO players are highly respected for not trashing other games/players. You just did both.

Originally posted by shaggydog

A good measure of a product, is the sales figures.  The same is true for a service.  If you have one service where 60-70% of the market subscribes to that service, then clearly that is the leader for that market.  11.5 million subscribers is pretty significant.

I have to say after playing Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan, Warhammer, and World of Warcraft that by far World of Warcraft is the best offering available so far.  The quality of the game far exceeds that of other products.  The variety and balance of the game is far superior.  The graphics may not be as realistic as other games, but it's bright and cheery, and the game is just fun to play.

so other game companies should just stop making MMOs unless they know they can draw 11.6 million subscribers ... because until then WoW should win every award?

Originally posted by Ravanos

Originally posted by shaggydog

A good measure of a product, is the sales figures.  The same is true for a service.  If you have one service where 60-70% of the market subscribes to that service, then clearly that is the leader for that market.  11.5 million subscribers is pretty significant.

I have to say after playing Everquest 2, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan, Warhammer, and World of Warcraft that by far World of Warcraft is the best offering available so far.  The quality of the game far exceeds that of other products.  The variety and balance of the game is far superior.  The graphics may not be as realistic as other games, but it's bright and cheery, and the game is just fun to play.

 

so other game companies should just stop making MMOs unless they know they can draw 11.6 million subscribers ... because until then WoW should win every award?

 

Absolutely not, that's just silly.  Just because there is a clear market leader doesn't mean to say that other games in the market aren't still good.  I'll probably go back to playing Lord of the Rings, or Warhammer when I get bored with WoW.  Lord of the Rings is a very good game.  I enjoyed my time there.

there's also a few good games I'm looking forward to, such as Stargate Worlds, Star Wars: Old Republic & Star Trek Online.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

 never say or believe WoW's way is the best.

of course you do you proved that in your last post ... if WoW doesn't win every award it must be because of "WoW hate". not that people enjoy LOTRO and think thier expac is great ... but because everyone must hate WoW that much.

its not a conspiracy there was no gunman on the grassy knoll ... get over yourself and get over the whole "blizzard is the best" BS. I don't even play LOTRO by the way before you say im a LOTRO fanboy i just can't stand stupid WoW players bashing another game because WoW didn't win.

 I'm not even going to read the rest of the thread, because I know it's likely going to be a disaster since WoW didn't win. 

Anyway, congrats once again Turbine, definitely deserved. Not so huge on the "solo" class addition, but the rune mage is pretty cool, the legendary system is novel, and as always, the new area has just the right feel to it. Not surprised Eve did well either. I've never really been able to get into the game but their expansions have always been pretty solid (at least from a content standpoint, we'll not mention the patch that almost hosed a ton of windows systems >_>) . As for WoW, self explanitory. I do like that they actually put focus back on the lore at least somewhat. 

Congratulations Turbine!! Thank you for the 102% effort you put into your game!

I am glad Turbine won as from my experience they deserved it. I voted for it and as some pointed out it wasn't simply because they advertised it.  I've seen these same types of adds on other mmos I've played but I have never felt compelled to go and vote for them which is what I think distinguishes Turbine apart right now.  I have no problem saying that Turbine is giving people what they want right now as and not many are coming close right now.  I don't agree with all the WoW hate it's just a game and it is well produced, easy to play and works well and given what some companies have no problem putting out nowadays that has to be applauded. If you like LOTRO take pride in your David beating the Goliath WOW but honestly it's not worth geting your blood pressure up.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Great game althought once again this sites anti WoW hate has shown in full colors.

... this site has shown its hate of WoW...

Well, let's see..

The people who come here voted... not MMORPG.com staff.

And, I do recall a recent review of WoTLK here, by a MMORPG.com statff member, that described it as "freaking awesome" and went on to pile much praise on it.

Yeah... So much hate.

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

... except that MoM is getting high praise from "professionals" as well; assuming that by "professionals", you mean major gaming sites and publications. Just look around at the  reviews from different gaming sites and magazines. They all give it high scores.

That, and polls never represent an entire population, but a sampling of it. The poll is no different here. And, given the praise it's getting in the press, I think the results of this poll are at least consistent.

Originally posted by duwat1982d

Originally posted by pileopoop

This poll is rigged, Lotro posted on their main webpage to vote for them.

 

How does that make it rigged if they did that? Blizzard could have done the same thing. Did Turbine make the decision on who won? Please explain it to me because I must be missing something. Not seeing how it makes it rigged.

Blizzard doesn't  need to ask its players to vote on a meaningless poll.  They don't exactly need the publicity. 

While I am really loving WoW's latest expansion (much more than the last one) I've heard pretty much only positive things about Mines of Moria, so it seems to be a deserving winner.

Man, this stuff makes me laugh. Heres my two cents:

1 - Congrats to Turbine, its a great game for PVE players and I enjoyed it and the MoM pack greatly.

2 - The fact Turbine publisced the vote to their community is good marketing for a game that wants to ensure long life and sensibly take every free opportunity to make the world more aware of Lotro.

3 - I also play WoW and enjoyed Wotlk greatly as well. Personally I do not think Blizzard needs to worry about independant website polls. Its the sales rate and the monthly subscription payments that matter to them (COS THEY ARE A BUSINESS) and clearly the world has already voted on their exp pack.

4 - The mere fact that this vote was based on such a pathetically small base of people which clearly represents such a tiny community of the overall players who feel passionatly about all of the games nominated says more about how redundant the poll is rather than an opinion of the games quality or popularity themselves. Eve (another game Ii like a lot) has one of the most passionate and loyal customer bases alive today and they could not be bothered to take part.

Still is serves to fill a nice lilttle thread of discussion no matter how irrelavant the vote itself has turned out to be,

My only desire is that all of these companies prosper and continue to invest in regular expansions so we can keep enjoying them. 2 years was a long wait in WoW. Congrats to all of em for still being alive and profitable in this increasingly competitive and fickle market.

lastly: Much love to Eq1 and Eq2 - my love of MMO's grew through you.

...how many gamers *really* visit corporate website... And the polls were advertised on every board of the games I do play, I quess even WoW boards had the go vote announcements. Vae victor as the Romans used to say :P

Congrats to Turbine!

Gratzy Turbine , well deserved :D

Originally posted by Neopsych

Man, this stuff makes me laugh. Heres my two cents:

1 - Congrats to Turbine, its a great game for PVE players and I enjoyed it and the MoM pack greatly.

2 - The fact Turbine publisced the vote to their community is good marketing for a game that wants to ensure long life and sensibly take every free opportunity to make the world more aware of Lotro.

3 - I also play WoW and enjoyed Wotlk greatly as well. Personally I do not think Blizzard needs to worry about independant website polls. Its the sales rate and the monthly subscription payments that matter to them (COS THEY ARE A BUSINESS) and clearly the world has already voted on their exp pack.

4 - The mere fact that this vote was based on such a pathetically small base of people which clearly represents such a tiny community of the overall players who feel passionatly about all of the games nominated says more about how redundant the poll is rather than an opinion of the games quality or popularity themselves. Eve (another game Ii like a lot) has one of the most passionate and loyal customer bases alive today and they could not be bothered to take part.

Still is serves to fill a nice lilttle thread of discussion no matter how irrelavant the vote itself has turned out to be,

My only desire is that all of these companies prosper and continue to invest in regular expansions so we can keep enjoying them. 2 years was a long wait in WoW. Congrats to all of em for still being alive and profitable in this increasingly competitive and fickle market.

lastly: Much love to Eq1 and Eq2 - my love of MMO's grew through you.

Indeed!

Congratulation Turbine / Codemasters.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis. i think that only 4k voted may have something to do with the lack variety available in the mmo world too

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards. going by sales alone MOM would be at the bottom of those four so i have to agree

I honestly though mmorpg.com was read by a much wider playerbase than it really is, but I guess we all can't be right all the time. It's a good thing I'm trying to only come here for updates on MMO's in general now, because that's something the mmorpg.com staff is pretty good at keeping us up-to-date on.

I really apologize to those who will read my post and get bent out of shape over it, but look at this from my point of view. I looked forward to these awards to see what the majority of MMO player out there thought about the game. I've viewed these awards for a few years now. Only now I've noticed that less than .01 % of all MMO players out there actually voted on these rewards. Knowing that less than .01% of the MMO population voted for the rewards, how special do these nominations really mean to people now? i can't say that i feel they are an accurate reprisentation either:(

 

 

Well, I don't think people can blame you for having an opinion, especially since you stated it clearly without embellisment.

But to be honest I think the idea that Turbine has one 3 of these awards speaks volumes for this site as it seems that this site tends to be skewed more toward the pvp/sandbox crowd. how so?

But again, this is not to give Turbine a trophy or or monetary award. Anyone who came to this site within the alotted time could have voted. unfortunately not many ppl did

It's just a bit of recognition. Do people dislike Turbine or their work? Sure. But if WoW or Eve would have won you would have seen equal posts as to how those games didn't deserve it. even before the voting was in, those voting for lotro were saying how eve always wins and doesn't deserve to

How many "wow is the antichrist" posts pop up on this site? Or "who can play eve, it's a gankfest version of Excel that puts me to sleep" actually not that many that i've seen but those that do tend to be very vocal

Everyone has their favorites and everyone has their reasons. It just so happens that this time around a good many people felt that Turbine deserved this modest bit of recognition. under 2k of the 1mil members this site has voted for MOM so i do have to question the 'good many' sorry

this result does make me wonder how many marketers and fanboys with multiple accounts spammed votes, considering how few copies of MOM seem to have been sold

next time any chance of a none of the above being added to the list?

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Well, I don't think people can blame you for having an opinion, especially since you stated it clearly without embellisment.

But to be honest I think the idea that Turbine has one 3 of these awards speaks volumes for this site as it seems that this site tends to be skewed more toward the pvp/sandbox crowd. how so?

But again, this is not to give Turbine a trophy or or monetary award. Anyone who came to this site within the alotted time could have voted. unfortunately not many ppl did

It's just a bit of recognition. Do people dislike Turbine or their work? Sure. But if WoW or Eve would have won you would have seen equal posts as to how those games didn't deserve it. even before the voting was in, those voting for lotro were saying how eve always wins and doesn't deserve to

How many "wow is the antichrist" posts pop up on this site? Or "who can play eve, it's a gankfest version of Excel that puts me to sleep" actually not that many that i've seen but those that do tend to be very vocal

Everyone has their favorites and everyone has their reasons. It just so happens that this time around a good many people felt that Turbine deserved this modest bit of recognition. under 2k of the 1mil members this site has voted for MOM so i do have to question the 'good many' sorry

this result does make me wonder how many marketers and fanboys with multiple accounts spammed votes, considering how few copies of MOM seem to have been sold

next time any chance of a none of the above being added to the list?

1, because the majority of posts I see tend to be about how sandbox games are the end all and be all. My sense would be that this site would be skewed more toward a game like eve rather than one that follows similiar gameplay mechanics like WoW

2, Depends on what you mean "not many did". Whether you know it or not MANY people go to game sites but to not contribute. I can't tell you how many times I've received pm's on different sites where someone was asking a question and they then said that though they visit the sites they don't participate in polls or discussions. So there could have been 5 times the visitors on this site (or pick a number) but who just don't participate in these things. Had they participated they could have voted for another game and MoM wouldn't have won. Or they could have voted for MoM and it would have won by a huge landslide.

3, That could be true. the point is that there are die hard fans on all sides and no matter who the winner is someone is going to say that they shouldn't have won. for x reasons.

4, I disagree, I see many posts on this site that lambaste WoW and what its perceived effect on the mmo world has been or that Eve is a boring game or a gankfest etc. Regardless of whether it is true or no. Is it a majority? Most likely not but sure, they are vocal but they consistently pop up.

5, You read that wrong. When I say a good many I never said "a good many from this site". A good many who participated in the poll voted for it. Given the numbers who voted and the percentages would you say that was incorrect? That a good many of those who participated in the poll didn't vote for it?

I also think that too many players vote with their likes and dislikes and not for what really makes sense.

When I vote in these polls I don't vote for favorites. I vote for what makes sense. So in the past I have voted against games I have played because I had felt another game did something better or achieved something notable. Just because a player votes for something doesn't mean that he/she find it his/her favorite.

So for instance, if the poll was asking for the most polished game with the most features I could very well have just voted for WoW because I think it has loads of polish and loads of features. I don't play it a lot because it's not my favorite game.

Had the poll asked for the most in depth game with the most choices I would have voted for Eve as i think it has quite a bit on most of these games. But I don't actively play Eve for a variety of reasons. That doesn't mean that I can't, as an intelligent person, recognize its strengths.

My sense is that many people don't do that and they just vote with their loyalites no matter what.

 This award is so stupid.  Its basically between the WOW and LOTRO expansion.  Who cares.  Wooptie doo !

Originally posted by GungaDin

 This award is so stupid.  Its basically between the WOW and LOTRO expansion.  Who cares.  Wooptie doo !

So which one did you vote for then?

[im betting it was not the winners heh]

Didnt vote. 

I don't think there should be any best MMO's or best MMO expansions of 2008, because in my opinion nothing warrants such awards.

Instead, there should be "Best of what's out there" awards.  Maybe the LOTR expansion deserves a "Best MMO expansion out at the moment" award.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Gratz MoM players. I wish Blizzard would learn from this and make their expansions more like MoM, more content for ALL levels!

WoTLK is great, its just that too many people are too wrapped up in playing it instead of surfing the net and voting. 

Originally posted by GungaDin

Didnt vote. 

 Could be a lesson in that.

I have to say congratulations on a well-deserved victory. I don't love Turbine for many reasons, but MoM should be a model for what should go into an expansion for companies for a long time to come. It supports growth and new experiences for everyone across the playerbase. It is, very simple, what an expansion should be.

I didn't vote in this poll because I learned about it after it had finished, but I'm sure that had the WoW community known about it it would have won easily.

Massively.com gave the "Best Expansion of 2008" award to World of Warcraft's Wrath of the Lich King, and their reasoning makes more sense to me:

http://www.massively.com/2008/12/16/massivelys-best-of-favorite-expansion-of-2008/

I really wouldn't say adding content that some games have had for a long time, on top of finally figuring out how to make questing somewhat interesting, qualifies as a grand achievement in my book, especially when the story that drives all those quests continues to slide down the septic tubes even further.

I wouldn't really vote for LotRO either for winner. Of the options given i wouldn't have voted for any.

Maybe EvE Online, even though I get bored out of my skull playing the game, at least their expansion added new stuff and at least the beginnings of a new direction to playing the game.

Originally posted by Dionyseus  

Massively.com gave the "Best Expansion of 2008" award to World of Warcraft's Wrath of the Lich King, and their reasoning makes more sense to me:

MMORPG.com "gave" this award because people voted for it you dim-wit.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

... except that MoM is getting high praise from "professionals" as well; assuming that by "professionals", you mean major gaming sites and publications. Just look around at the  reviews from different gaming sites and magazines. They all give it high scores.

That, and polls never represent an entire population, but a sampling of it. The poll is no different here. And, given the praise it's getting in the press, I think the results of this poll are at least consistent.

 

To compare the average critic scores:

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lordoftheringsonlineminesofmoria

Mines of Moria: 8.6

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraftwrathofthelichking

Wrath of the Lich King: 9.1

So yes, to say the results of this poll are way off would be an understatement.

Even taking in to account that LOTRO subscriptions numbers are probably a lot higher than people suspect, the WoW expansion is still going to have sold high multiples, and if the WoW people had voted would have won without any trouble. So my guess would be either the LOTRO demographic includes people more inclined to vote, or they were generally happier with their expansion.

As for critics they are near on useless, does anyone actually take them seriously (other than themselves)?

Probably worth pointing out neither of the MMOs held any long term interest for me, so no axe to grind either way.

One Expansion to rule them all!

Yeah, I'm happy they won, I voted for them, well deserved victory. We are talking about Moria, ladies and gentlemen, beautifully rendered in its full gloomy glory, golden ancient forests of Lothlorien, fair elves and sinister monsters from the womb of the Earth. Best graphics, best lore, best community, best quests.

As for this pathetic losing WOTLK, I'll have only one question: How in the first place, fanbois, could you bear to look at jamaican weedsmoking trolls dancing capoeira or gnomes on helicopters and not run the f*ck away? And how dare you speak of "lore" and "RP" in Wow? The kind of lore they are pulling out of their ass to sell more figurines and books and thrill the 12 year olds? (If you're not 12 year old and enjoying *that*, you must be schizophrenic/retarded).

Originally posted by Dionyseus

I didn't vote in this poll because I learned about it after it had finished, but I'm sure that had the WoW community known about it it would have won easily.

Massively.com gave the "Best Expansion of 2008" award to World of Warcraft's Wrath of the Lich King, and their reasoning makes more sense to me:

http://www.massively.com/2008/12/16/massivelys-best-of-favorite-expansion-of-2008/

 

 

Yea I liked their reasoning why MoM only got second place:

"So why didn't Moria win top spot, if it's really that good? There are a variety of reasons, but the simple fact is that more people play World of Warcraft. This being LotRO's first shot in the Expansion Wars, I'd have to say they're not doing too bad, either. This is certainly one of those cases where second place is still quite a compliment."

The readers of MMORPG.COM voted MoM as best expansion, why is this such a deal for all the WoW fans?

[quote] The readers of MMORPG.COM voted MoM as best expansion, why is this such a deal for all the WoW fans? [/quote]
 

A small fraction of its readers. 

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

... except that MoM is getting high praise from "professionals" as well; assuming that by "professionals", you mean major gaming sites and publications. Just look around at the  reviews from different gaming sites and magazines. They all give it high scores.

That, and polls never represent an entire population, but a sampling of it. The poll is no different here. And, given the praise it's getting in the press, I think the results of this poll are at least consistent.

 

 

To compare the average critic scores:

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lordoftheringsonlineminesofmoria

Mines of Moria: 8.6

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraftwrathofthelichking

Wrath of the Lich King: 9.1

So yes, to say the results of this poll are way off would be an understatement.

Why is that odd to you?

Have you ever read book, music or movie reviews, and then seen how different or divided reader/listener/watcher opinions can be by comparison? The same holds true for games. It's not exactly some alien concept.... well I guess to you it is given your response.

Find me a critic or reviewer, anywhere, for anything, whose opinions/reviews are never disagreed with. You can't, because no such person exists

Let's try something...

We'll call it a mind opening exercise.

Okay... if you could, just for a moment... Step out of your own head and pretend that there are millions of  people in this world with minds of their own. Now pretend that those people are all capable of forming their own opinions and, even better, offering them when asked.

Still with me? Okay good...

This is where it's gonna get tough for you...

Envision thousands of those people whose opinions, likes and dislikes don't necessarily match your own, or those you agree with.

Take a breath. Told you this would get tough. Accepting that others have different opinions than you and that theirs are just as valid can be difficult to swallow for a hyper-opinionated, closed-minded person. It gets easier with time and, besides, that's what this exercise is for.

Let me know when  you're ready to continue.

Ready?

Okay, good..

Now imagine all those people, with minds and views and voices of their own, are invited to cast their votes in a player poll for best expansion for a MMORPG. Imagine that, despite what might seem like the "obvious", "correct" choice to you, they all vote for a different game, and that game wins by a substantial margin. The world doesn't stop turning. The sky doesn't fall. The sun still rises and sets like normal.

Now, take a deep breath, snap out of it, come back to reality and accept that that's exactly what happened here. People were invited to vote for what they felt was the best expansion. They did and LoTRO got the most votes. Don't point at what meta-critic shows, because that doesn't mean anything here. These polls reflect player opinion, not industry reviews.

I'm sure there are plenty who agree with you and didn't choose it. There were simply more in this poll who didn't agree with you.

Why is that so difficult to accept?

Bottom line: The award went to the game that, in your opinion, shouldn't have gotten it. A lot of people disagreed with you. Learn to deal with it, and move on.

Or, continue griping about it.

Whatever gets you through the night.

As an aside, I do find it funny when you start citing reviewers like that. From past experience, I know you'd just as quickly dismiss those same reviews if they didn't support your argument.

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by Dionyseus

I didn't vote in this poll because I learned about it after it had finished, but I'm sure that had the WoW community known about it it would have won easily.

Massively.com gave the "Best Expansion of 2008" award to World of Warcraft's Wrath of the Lich King, and their reasoning makes more sense to me:

http://www.massively.com/2008/12/16/massivelys-best-of-favorite-expansion-of-2008/

 

 

 

Yea I liked their reasoning why MoM only got second place:

"So why didn't Moria win top spot, if it's really that good? There are a variety of reasons, but the simple fact is that more people play World of Warcraft. This being LotRO's first shot in the Expansion Wars, I'd have to say they're not doing too bad, either. This is certainly one of those cases where second place is still quite a compliment."

The readers of MMORPG.COM voted MoM as best expansion, why is this such a deal for all the WoW fans?

Probably for a similar reason as to why my own sister can't grasp the concept that I don't find WoW to be as OMGAMAZING as she does. She can't understand it.

Probably for a similar reason why a guy I know who declared "all other MMOs are irrelevant" after WoTLK launched can't understand why I don't enjoy WoW.

To some who play that game (or any game to be fair), there *is* no other MMO worth playing and they feel that somehow those who don't play or like it are misinformed, don't know any better or have lousy taste in MMOs. Or, in the case of LoTRO, they only play it because it's based on Tolkien's lore.

So, to WoW players who fall into that category, that WoW could do anything *but* take top honors in any poll is probably inconceivable.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

... except that MoM is getting high praise from "professionals" as well; assuming that by "professionals", you mean major gaming sites and publications. Just look around at the  reviews from different gaming sites and magazines. They all give it high scores.

That, and polls never represent an entire population, but a sampling of it. The poll is no different here. And, given the praise it's getting in the press, I think the results of this poll are at least consistent.

 

 

To compare the average critic scores:

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lordoftheringsonlineminesofmoria

Mines of Moria: 8.6

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraftwrathofthelichking

Wrath of the Lich King: 9.1

So yes, to say the results of this poll are way off would be an understatement.

Metacritic also shows just how polarizing player voting is with World of Warcraft.  On almost any site you will see that people either really love WoW or truly despise WoW.  There is no middle ground.  With LoTRO you see that most people will lean towards the generally favorable because 1) it isn't the king of the hill and 2) most people that play the game have good things to say about it even if they don't play it perrennielly. 

oh~my favorite are on the list of winner, wow and lord of rings online are the best 2 deserve the call

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

... except that MoM is getting high praise from "professionals" as well; assuming that by "professionals", you mean major gaming sites and publications. Just look around at the  reviews from different gaming sites and magazines. They all give it high scores.

That, and polls never represent an entire population, but a sampling of it. The poll is no different here. And, given the praise it's getting in the press, I think the results of this poll are at least consistent.

 

 

To compare the average critic scores:

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lordoftheringsonlineminesofmoria

Mines of Moria: 8.6

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraftwrathofthelichking

Wrath of the Lich King: 9.1

So yes, to say the results of this poll are way off would be an understatement.

Why is that odd to you?

Have you ever read book, music or movie reviews, and then seen how different or divided reader/listener/watcher opinions can be by comparison? The same holds true for games. It's not exactly some alien concept.... well I guess to you it is given your response.

Find me a critic or reviewer, anywhere, for anything, whose opinions/reviews are never disagreed with. You can't, because no such person exists

Let's try something...

We'll call it a mind opening exercise.

Okay... if you could, just for a moment... Step out of your own head and pretend that there are millions of  people in this world with minds of their own. Now pretend that those people are all capable of forming their own opinions and, even better, offering them when asked.

Still with me? Okay good...

This is where it's gonna get tough for you...

Envision thousands of those people whose opinions, likes and dislikes don't necessarily match your own, or those you agree with.

Take a breath. Told you this would get tough. Accepting that others have different opinions than you and that theirs are just as valid can be difficult to swallow for a hyper-opinionated, closed-minded person. It gets easier with time and, besides, that's what this exercise is for.

Let me know when  you're ready to continue.

Ready?

Okay, good..

Now imagine all those people, with minds and views and voices of their own, are invited to cast their votes in a player poll for best expansion for a MMORPG. Imagine that, despite what might seem like the "obvious", "correct" choice to you, they all vote for a different game, and that game wins by a substantial margin. The world doesn't stop turning. The sky doesn't fall. The sun still rises and sets like normal.

Now, take a deep breath, snap out of it, come back to reality and accept that that's exactly what happened here. People were invited to vote for what they felt was the best expansion. They did and LoTRO got the most votes. Don't point at what meta-critic shows, because that doesn't mean anything here. These polls reflect player opinion, not industry reviews.

I'm sure there are plenty who agree with you and didn't choose it. There were simply more in this poll who didn't agree with you.

Why is that so difficult to accept?

Bottom line: The award went to the game that, in your opinion, shouldn't have gotten it. A lot of people disagreed with you. Learn to deal with it, and move on.

Or, continue griping about it.

Whatever gets you through the night.

As an aside, I do find it funny when you start citing reviewers like that. From past experience, I know you'd just as quickly dismiss those same reviews if they didn't support your argument.

 

The biggest problem with your point of view is that you like to believe that every opinion is valid and well educated, and this is simply not true.

The thing with mmorpg.com award is that every person with a connection to the internet can vote. Now lets stay realistic: How many people here have actually PLAYED and EXPERIENCED all the games listed? If it's more than 10%, I'll be impressed. If you haven't played or experienced all these games and expanstions, how can you make an objective vote?

Short answer: You can't. The result is that this poll is all about fanboyism and bias, not actual product quality.

The reason why I cite critics is that if you look at the games from an objective viewpoints, WotLK clearly comes out on top and it really shows just how little quality has to do with the results.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Short answer: You can't. The result is that this poll is all about fanboyism and bias, not actual product quality.

 

No shit, it’s a READER CHOICE AWARD. That doesn’t mean that the quality is not there. Because it is, the two are not mutually exclusive.

If you would stop babbling about this BS, and read what others have posted here as to why they voted one way or the other, you would see why LOTRO won.

Also, please note, LOTRO has 14 reviews, WOTLK has 41 to make the average of your Critic score.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Gameloading

Short answer: You can't. The result is that this poll is all about fanboyism and bias, not actual product quality.

 

No shit, it’s a READER CHOICE AWARD. That doesn’t mean that the quality is not there. Because it is, the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

If you would stop babbling about this BS, and read what others have posted here as to why they voted one way or the other, you would see why LOTRO won.

 

Also, please note, LOTRO has 14 reviews, WOTLK has 41 to make the average of your Critic score.

 

It's undeniable that the quality isn't there because from an objective point of view, WOTLK scores higher than MoM and yet Lotro wins with a landslide victory here.

It doesn't matter what people post here, because I don't believe for a moment that even half of the people who voted here did so with an objective and educated mindset. For that, you need to look no further than yourself.

" they also have 25 man raids, something blizzard has recently decided to mimic"

Blizzard decided to mimic? what? WoW already had a 20 man raid dungeon about 2 years before Lotro was even released.

In my opinion, it is very clear why people have voted for Lotro. Because Blizzard is the big bad bully, and Turbine is this cute little company offering an alternative to WoW.

I think it pretty much goes like this:

Look at the nominations:

- EVE empyrean age
- Mines of Moria
- Seeds of Destruction
- Shadow of Odyssey
- Wrath of the Lich King

The only company with a worse reputation than Blizzard on this forum is SOE, so that leaves out Seeds of Destruction and Shadow of Odyssey. It doesn't matter how good these expansions are, the fact that they are published by SOE means people won't vote for it. Next is EVE: Empyrean Age which quite a lot of people voted for but I think the fact it wasn't a traditional retail expansion kept it from getting votes. WoW players obviously voted for WoW, so that leaves with the biggest group: The people who hate WoW because it's big and mainstream, and since 2nd best is Lotro, it's obvious that's where the votes will go to.

People are far more forgiving to Turbine than they are for Blizzard


"Lotro is not about the endgame, it's about the journey to it!" Unfortunately Lotro's quest are, just like WoW, little more than "Go kill XX" or "Go find XX" with a storyline mission thrown in every now and then to keep the story moving, only difference being that WoW has a lot more content untill you reach the cap level. The endgame in Lotro is nowhere near that of WoW's, so the correct translation of the phrase "It's not about the endgame" would be "The endgame sucks".

People will write entire essays to write what they don't like about WoW's PVP system but when Lotro's monsterplay comes up, it usually goes "It sucks, but it's not the focus of the game" as if that is a valid excuse for it being the way it is.

Also, a game having less reviews is usually in its favor, as the score most of the time goes down as more and more reviews get added.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

... except that MoM is getting high praise from "professionals" as well; assuming that by "professionals", you mean major gaming sites and publications. Just look around at the  reviews from different gaming sites and magazines. They all give it high scores.

That, and polls never represent an entire population, but a sampling of it. The poll is no different here. And, given the praise it's getting in the press, I think the results of this poll are at least consistent.

 

 

To compare the average critic scores:

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lordoftheringsonlineminesofmoria

Mines of Moria: 8.6

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraftwrathofthelichking

Wrath of the Lich King: 9.1

So yes, to say the results of this poll are way off would be an understatement.

The biggest problem with your point of view is that you like to believe that every opinion is valid and well educated, and this is simply not true.

Ahhh yes, the classic GameLoading "logic".

People's opinions aren't valid or well-educated unless they meet your self-serving "standards". Or, in short, if they don't agree with you, they're "wrong".

You haven't changed a bit since the Archlord days; just as arrogant, presumptuous, closed-minded and hyper-opinionated as ever.

So you don't have to keep trying to diagnose my "problem", my point-of-view can be portrayed as such:
People are presented a list of games to choose from. Common-sense would say that they are likely to vote for the game they feel deserves it, for their own reasons. Likewise, they are likely to not vote for a game they don't feel deserves it, again for their own reasons.

Every person who comes here had the opportunity to vote. Everyone who voted in that poll had the same options as everyone else. More people chose LoTRO, so LoTRO won.

See? Simple.

All this "well-educated" and "valid" crap is just more of the same from you; trying to tear apart and invalidate opinions you disagree with using your own self-serving "standards". Just like you did back on the Archlord forums. It's nothing but a red herring. You can't tolerate differing opinions, GL, and you never could.

The thing with mmorpg.com award is that every person with a connection to the internet can vote. Now lets stay realistic: How many people here have actually PLAYED and EXPERIENCED all the games listed? If it's more than 10%, I'll be impressed. If you haven't played or experienced all these games and expanstions, how can you make an objective vote?

Short answer: You can't. The result is that this poll is all about fanboyism and bias, not actual product quality.

Of course it's biased... It's a poll asking players for their personal opinions of which game deserves an award. So naturally, the votes are going to be based on personal bias. What's the problem here?

You're over-complicating a simple situation to suit your own ends (you don't like the results, so you must seek to invalidate them - just like always).

And, once again invoking common-sense, why the hell would someone vote for a game they don't play or at least don't like?

The reason why I cite critics is that if you look at the games from an objective viewpoints, WotLK clearly comes out on top and it really shows just how little quality has to do with the results.

Okay... I'm going to type this slowly so you can follow along more easily...
This - is - not - an - impartial - industry - review - based - on - objective - criteria.
This - is - a - subjective - reader/player - poll - based - on - personal - opinion.
They - are - not - the - same - thing.
One - does - not - qualify - nor - disqualify - the - other.

Keep reading that 'til it sinks in.

There is no "criteria" to be met to validate or invalidate people's votes. I know how badly you want to pretend there is because your entire dismissal of the results depends on it... but it's just not there.

You can pretend it matters all day long and give as many arguments as you want. People form opinions based on their own likes and dislikes. It is not your place to come here and "police" those opinions by pondering whose vote is "well-educated" (ie. they agree with you) and whose isn't (ie. they disagree with you).

Once again, you do not decide the criteria, and you cannot assume to know the particulars of every person who voted.  So stop presuming to.

And, going from your posting history, I would bet $20 that if the game won that *you* felt deserved it, you wouldn't have questioned the validity of the votes at all. Every winning vote would have been well-educated and valid, simply because they agreed with you.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

... except that MoM is getting high praise from "professionals" as well; assuming that by "professionals", you mean major gaming sites and publications. Just look around at the  reviews from different gaming sites and magazines. They all give it high scores.

That, and polls never represent an entire population, but a sampling of it. The poll is no different here. And, given the praise it's getting in the press, I think the results of this poll are at least consistent.

 

 

To compare the average critic scores:

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lordoftheringsonlineminesofmoria

Mines of Moria: 8.6

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraftwrathofthelichking

Wrath of the Lich King: 9.1

So yes, to say the results of this poll are way off would be an understatement.

The biggest problem with your point of view is that you like to believe that every opinion is valid and well educated, and this is simply not true.

Ahhh yes, the classic GameLoading "logic".

People's opinions aren't valid or well-educated unless they meet your self-serving "standards". Or, in short, if they don't agree with you, they're "wrong".

You haven't changed a bit since the Archlord days; just as arrogant, presumptuous, closed-minded and hyper-opinionated as ever.

So you don't have to keep trying to diagnose my "problem", my point-of-view can be portrayed as such:
People are presented a list of games to choose from. Common-sense would say that they are likely to vote for the game they feel deserves it, for their own reasons. Likewise, they are likely to not vote for a game they don't feel deserves it, again for their own reasons.

Every person who comes here had the opportunity to vote. Everyone who voted in that poll had the same options as everyone else. More people chose LoTRO, so LoTRO won.

See? Simple.

All this "well-educated" and "valid" crap is just more of the same from you; trying to tear apart and invalidate opinions you disagree with using your own subjective and self-serving criteria. Just like you did back on the Archlord forums.

You can't tolerate differing opinions, GL, and you never could.

The thing with mmorpg.com award is that every person with a connection to the internet can vote. Now lets stay realistic: How many people here have actually PLAYED and EXPERIENCED all the games listed? If it's more than 10%, I'll be impressed. If you haven't played or experienced all these games and expanstions, how can you make an objective vote?

Short answer: You can't. The result is that this poll is all about fanboyism and bias, not actual product quality.

Of course it's biased... It's a poll asking players for their personal opinions of which game deserves an award. So naturally, the votes are going to be based on personal bias. What's the problem here?

You're over-complicating a simple situation to suit your own ends (you don't like the results, so you must seek to invalidate them - just like always).

And, once again invoking common-sense, why the hell would someone vote for a game they don't play or at least don't like?

The reason why I cite critics is that if you look at the games from an objective viewpoints, WotLK clearly comes out on top and it really shows just how little quality has to do with the results.

Okay... I'm going to type this slowly so you can follow along more easily...
This - is - not - an - impartial - industry - review - based - on - objective - criteria.
This - is - a - subjective - reader/player - poll - based - on - personal - opinion.
They - are - not - the - same - thing.

Keep reading that 'til it sinks in.

There is no "criteria" to be met to validate or invalidate people's votes. I know how badly you want to pretend there is because your entire dismissal of the results depends on it... but it's just not there.

You can pretend it matters all day long and give as many arguments as you want. People have opinions for whatever reason and it is not your place to come here and "police" those opinions by pondering whose vote is "well-educated" (ie. they agree with you) and whose isn't (ie. they disagree with you).

Once again, you do not decide the criteria, and you cannot assume to know the particulars of every person who voted.  So stop presuming to.

And, going from your posting history, I would bet $20 that if the game won that *you* felt deserved it, you wouldn't have questioned the validity of the votes at all. Every winning vote would have been well-educated and valid, simply because they agreed with you.

 

 

That's a mouth full. "Arrogant, close minded, presumptuos", I really hope you didn't trip over your own tongue with all the name calling. Apparently when you point out that not everybody on an mmorpg forum is an expert on mmorpg quality and that "opinions" can actually be *gasp* wrong, you're suddenly arrogant, close minded and all the other things you, for some reason, felt a need to call me.

Now I'm going to explain a few things to you so even you might understand it.

You think that it's completely normal for people to be biased and you act as if it's completely fine. And, ofcourse, it is fine as long as you take these awards with a grain of salt. But you see, a lot of people, myself included, would like to see these awards being given to the developers that really deserve them, and not turn into a fanboy/hater fest that they have turned into now.

As long as people are unable to vote from an objective standpoint, the awards do not live up to their name. Is Mines of Moria the best expansion of 2008? Heck no, Mines of Moria is the expansion that received the most votes after a huge mass of biased people vote to make sure Wrath of the Lich King would not win the award.

It's like asking the fans of a sports team which team is the best. Are they going to give an objective, well educated response? Heck no, they are going to pick the team they cheer for which is probably because they were born in a certain state/town.

The result is that the opinion becomes completely meaningless.

Also, I am well within my right to criticize the results and other peoples opinion, unless an admit tells me to stop.

the mmorpg.com awards are no different. I'd love awards based on quality, but with the prejudice against WoW, it's simply not going to happen.

Originally posted by Gameloading

 As long as people are unable to vote from an objective standpoint, the awards do not live up to their name. Is Mines of Moria the best expansion of 2008? Heck no, Mines of Moria is the expansion that received the most votes after a huge mass of biased people vote to make sure Wrath of the Lich King would not win the award.

It's like asking the fans of a sports team which team is the best. Are they going to give an objective, well educated response? Heck no, they are going to pick the team they cheer for which is probably because they were born in a certain state/town.

The result is that the opinion becomes completely meaningless.

Also, I am well within my right to criticize the results and other peoples opinion, unless an admit tells me to stop.

the mmorpg.com awards are no different. I'd love awards based on quality, but with the prejudice against WoW, it's simply not going to happen.

Damn you really take this award (and your own opinon) very seriously!

So how are we going to base it on "quality"? There is a review on metacrtitc that gave AoC 97/100. Is that an ok opinion from a proffesional reviewer and an unbiased opinion? I read a review that gave MoM 1/5 that said nothing about the game or the features of the expansion... Me and many others are more impressed of what Turibne did with MoM than they are of the WoW expansion and I think this vote reflects that. But I believe that Wotlk is  more polished and have probably more content than MoM but thats not what this award is about...

Im looking forward to when they announce the winner of "best over all game" where everyone could vote for their favourite and not just 5 choices ;)

Huh...in reading the metacritic reviews i noticed something.

On a major public review website, while the metascore is 86 for MoM and 91 for WotLK, their player reviews are quite different.

9.1/10 for MoM

6.9/10 for WotLK

Why am I pointing this out, because of logic. Metasore is an amalgam of critic reviews. And what exactly is a critics review other than a popular individuals point of view?

You can't say a critics review is unbiased, you can't say it's balanced either. It's just like everyone else's in that they simply an individual that has been informed of the game and given time to tinker with it, then jusdge it on the mertis they deem worthy.

Obviously there are people out there that are better than others at this, and they are likely the ones that get paid to be cirtics.

My experience however from both knowing critics personally and reading many reviews I don't agree with have made me realise a very solid fact.

They're people too and as such their opinion is not worth more than any unpaid gamers point of view on the issue at hand. Especially if you take into account some of those player reviews are actually well written and intelligent.

Congratulations, Turbine!  I have played WotLK and MoM, and I voted for MoM.  It is hands down the better of the two.  Northrend was a great new area, but Blizzard managed to further imbalance their game to the point of "breaking" PvP, as witnessed by the flood of complaints on their forums.  Meanwhile, Turbine improved on seemingly every aspect of the game, including some areas that were lacking.  Moreover, they managed to continue to add to the lore of an already great story without alienating Lord of the Rings (the books) fanboys.  There were tons of jaw-dropping moments in both games, great new content, and great features, but MoM managed to do it without introducing any new disappointments for me, as well.

to Turbine!

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

... except that MoM is getting high praise from "professionals" as well; assuming that by "professionals", you mean major gaming sites and publications. Just look around at the  reviews from different gaming sites and magazines. They all give it high scores.

That, and polls never represent an entire population, but a sampling of it. The poll is no different here. And, given the praise it's getting in the press, I think the results of this poll are at least consistent.

 

 

To compare the average critic scores:

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lordoftheringsonlineminesofmoria

Mines of Moria: 8.6

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraftwrathofthelichking

Wrath of the Lich King: 9.1

So yes, to say the results of this poll are way off would be an understatement.

 

That's a mouth full. "Arrogant, close minded, presumptuos", I really hope you didn't trip over your own tongue with all the name calling.

Nope, no tripping at all. I'm not name calling, either. Based on your replies here and your history in the Archlord forums, those are very appropriate descriptions of your attitude toward people who disagree with you.

If the shoe fits...

Apparently when you point out that not everybody on an mmorpg forum is an expert on mmorpg quality and that "opinions" can actually be *gasp* wrong, you're suddenly arrogant, close minded and all the other things you, for some reason, felt a need to call me.

Again, I was describing your attitude, GL; the way you respond to and regard those you disagree with. That's not name calling, that's calling out a behavior for what it is.

If I really wanted to "name call", you would know the difference. Name calling is the last resort of someone with no arguments. Your short-sighted and absurd theories leave plenty of room for argument. Even if I were the type to name-call, I would have no reason to.

Merely disagreeing with opinions is one thing. That's understandable and is what forums are for.

What you do, however, goes beyond that. You assume people don't have a good reason for how they voted. You then declare their votes "wrong", "invalid" or not "well educated", simply because you disagree with them. You then attempt to point to all these "sources" to prove it, and make baseless generalizations without proof to "back it up".

Instead of simply saying "wow, okay I really don't agree with those results", and leaving it at that, you go on a crusade to dissassemble, disprove and invalidate the votes; to "prove people wrong".  Because you don't like the outcome.

Yes, that is an arrogant and closed-minded attitude.


Now I'm going to explain a few things to you so even you might understand it.

You think that it's completely normal for people to be biased and you act as if it's completely fine.

I have no opinion either way. People *are* biased.

Yes, even you, as you proved time and again on the Archlord forums when you were cheer-leading for that game. Despite your repeated attempts to claim some unbiased high-ground, the selective application of your "objective criteria" made your bias quite clear. I'll happily cite an example if you'd like.

And, ofcourse, it is fine as long as you take these awards with a grain of salt. But you see, a lot of people, myself included, would like to see these awards being given to the developers that really deserve them, and not turn into a fanboy/hater fest that they have turned into now.

Given to the developers that really deserve them? It did go to the most deserving ones.. It went to the ones with the most votes.

Oh, you mean the ones that *you* would have chosen, of course. Of course, all the votes here don't matter because, to you, the right company didn't win.

... and then you act surprised when described as arrogant and closed-minded.

I couldn't care less who wins or loses. The votes speak for themselves. I'm merely pointing out the flaws in your argument.

However, it still stands:

That more people voted for LoTRO in this poll than for any other nominee indicates that it *does* deserve it. That's how polls work. 1+1 = 2.

No matter how you try to break it down, call people fanboys or questioin the the validity of the votes, everyone had the same chance to choose any of the games nominated. More chose LoTRO. That's it. End of discussion.

Because you disagree with the results doesn't mean they're not valid.

As long as people are unable to vote from an objective standpoint, the awards do not live up to their name. Is Mines of Moria the best expansion of 2008? Heck no, Mines of Moria is the expansion that received the most votes after a huge mass of biased people vote to make sure Wrath of the Lich King would not win the award.

So people weren't voting for MoM... They were voting against WoTLK.  And even with several games to choose from, they all chose MoM...

To put it another way...
Entertaining your conspiracy theory for a moment, a vote for any of the other 4 nominees would have been a vote against WoTLK, as would have been no vote at all. Correct? Yet, all those people somehow rallied together, coordinated and voted for MoM; enough to give it a 23.3% lead on WoTLK, and take 48.3% of the votes overall.

And this doesn't seem at all far-fetched to you.

Yeah, that's lucid.

The government called... They need their black helicopters back.

It's like asking the fans of a sports team which team is the best. Are they going to give an objective, well educated response? Heck no, they are going to pick the team they cheer for which is probably because they were born in a certain state/town.

Now you're using flawed analogies to support an equally flawed argument. You're getting pretty desperate.

I know plenty of sports fans who readily acknowledge their team is having a horrible season, or isn't playing well or, certainly, isn't the "best team". I also know fans who do not choose a team simply because it's their "home town". Got any more lame generalizations to toss around?

Keep trying to find new ways to claim that the votes are not valid. The plain-as-day reality remains the same:
Everyone had the same opportunity to vote for any of the games nominated. This wasn't a "controlled" or "rigged" vote. There were no hanging or dimpled chads that could be judged subjectively for a preferred candidate. No one was turned away from the voting booths. It was a very definitive choice that people made.

LoTRO won because given the choices, more felt MoM most deserved it.

Again, 1+1 = 2.

The result is that the opinion becomes completely meaningless.

To you they are, because you don't like who won.

Also, I am well within my right to criticize the results and other peoples opinion, unless an admit tells me to stop.

Are you trying to put words in my mouth?

I never said you didn't have a right to criticize.

You absolutely do.

You also have a right to look ridiculous doing it.

You're 2 for 2. Not bad.

the mmorpg.com awards are no different. I'd love awards based on quality, but with the prejudice against WoW, it's simply not going to happen.

Yes, GL, you've got it all figured out. You've uncovered the conspiracy and proven that it had nothing to do with MoM simply getting more votes.

You know what's funny. You talk about people's votes not being "well educated" or "invalid" to dismantle the results of  a poll. Yet, here you are conjuring up these wild and, frankly, paranoid theories that you can't prove as "well educated" nor "valid", either. Is that slowing you down? Not at all. Just like back in the Archlord forums, somehow your own criteria never applies to yourself or those who agree with you.

Let's just strip away the nonsense and sum it up like this:
MoM shouldn't have won in your opinion. It did. You're bitter.

It's okay. I have more sugar if you need it.

Perhaps you should try that "grain of salt" thing you mentioned earlier. 

Originally posted by Deivos  

Huh...in reading the metacritic reviews i noticed something.

 

On a major public review website, while the metascore is 86 for MoM and 91 for WotLK, their player reviews are quite different.

 

9.1/10 for MoM

 

6.9/10 for WotLK

 

Why am I pointing this out, because of logic. Metasore is an amalgam of critic reviews. And what exactly is a critics review other than a popular individuals point of view?

Wait? Didn't someone say in this very thread that industry reviews do not necessarily reflect,  qualify nor disqualify the opinions of the players?

Oh wait, I said that.

Well, how about that.

Thanks for providing the numbers there to back it up :)

You can't say a critics review is unbiased, you can't say it's balanced either. It's just like everyone else's in that they simply an individual that has been informed of the game and given time to tinker with it, then jusdge it on the mertis they deem worthy.

Yep, which is why I say industry reviews are (ideally) based on unbiased criteria, but can still be biased.

GL isn't having any of that though. His "all the WoW haters voted for MoM" theory seems much more rational to him.

I am a WAR fanboy and voted for Mines of Moria so congratulations Turbine!

wotlk players dont have time to vote, cos theyr enjoing the game.

i do not approve this fake vote...

Originally posted by CasaFranky

wotlk players dont have time to vote, cos theyr enjoing the game.

i do not approve this fake vote...

lol

The votes are no more or less legit than they'd be if WoTLK or any of the other expansions won.

Plenty of WoW players come here and post on these forums, and they all had the opportunity to vote. Some did, but not enough. MoM won.

Maybe GL will share some of his sugar with you.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Gameloading

Short answer: You can't. The result is that this poll is all about fanboyism and bias, not actual product quality.

 

No shit, it’s a READER CHOICE AWARD. That doesn’t mean that the quality is not there. Because it is, the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

If you would stop babbling about this BS, and read what others have posted here as to why they voted one way or the other, you would see why LOTRO won.

 

Also, please note, LOTRO has 14 reviews, WOTLK has 41 to make the average of your Critic score.

 

 

It's undeniable that the quality isn't there because from an objective point of view, WOTLK scores higher than MoM and yet Lotro wins with a landslide victory here.

What the hell do reviews have to do with quality? Nothing, LOTRO:MoM is a quality product. Pure and simple, in fact Turbine has shown time and time again with LOTRO they know what they are doing, and regularly exceed player expectations in terms of technical execution, timeliness, completeness and polish. Turbine added 4 entire zones and about just as many features FOR FREE in its first year of operation. Very little downtime, and the content was GOOD.

It doesn't matter what people post here, because I don't believe for a moment that even half of the people who voted here did so with an objective and educated mindset. For that, you need to look no further than yourself.

" they also have 25 man raids, something blizzard has recently decided to mimic"

Blizzard decided to mimic? what? WoW already had a 20 man raid dungeon about 2 years before Lotro was even released.

I was referring to MAX, as in LOTRO knows its player base, its target, and the current trend of MMO players and shipped with 25 man raids as MAX, because they know the core player base does not have time for 40 man raids.

In my opinion, it is very clear why people have voted for Lotro. Because Blizzard is the big bad bully, and Turbine is this cute little company offering an alternative to WoW.

Your opinion is incorrect, as evidenced by the reasoning people here have posted. Including "Professional critics". You are just mad your game of the moment did not win. Pure and simple. Wow is a fine game in its self, but its the fast food of MMO's, Turbine is a small boutique offering a catered experience, and they do it WELL.


"Lotro is not about the endgame, it's about the journey to it!" Unfortunately Lotro's quest are, just like WoW, little more than "Go kill XX" or "Go find XX" with a storyline mission thrown in every now and then to keep the story moving, only difference being that WoW has a lot more content untill you reach the cap level. The endgame in Lotro is nowhere near that of WoW's, so the correct translation of the phrase "It's not about the endgame" would be "The endgame sucks".

You’re comparing a game that has a completely different focus to another, completely different focus. This is why you’re failing to understand. They are two different games, with two different (but overlapping) player bases. You are also comparing a 4 year old game to a 2 year old one. LOTRO is about story, not ding/loot/gratz/catassing/poosticking. To say that LOTRO's quests are just like wows shows you have NO idea what you are talking about, while some of them are fillers...the comparison is laughable. The quility of the quests in LOTRO far surpasses anything in Wow.... Perhaps you should read the quests and story instead of scrolling down to the bottom and accepting. You have been conditioned by Wow to play mindlessly it seems.

People will write entire essays to write what they don't like about WoW's PVP system but when Lotro's monster play comes up, it usually goes "It sucks, but it's not the focus of the game" as if that is a valid excuse for it being the way it is.

Well, IT ISN'T THE FOCUSE OF THE GAME. That’s like saying, that tank sucks, because it can't fly, my airplane is better. However, Monster play is an ingenious way to have PvP at all with out breaking the LORE of the game....this isn’t something turbine is just making up you know. Give credit where credit is due. Monster play is quite fun, and i personally find it much more compelling to participate in than Wows unbalanced bullshit PvP. Have fun with your Twink, because you are so skilled.

I do not think you understand who and what turbine is, how they have influenced, and pioneered a good portion of this industry. I also do not think you have one single "objectionable" view on this subject at all.

The bias of your entire argument is this. Your game did not win, you cant understand why, because it has 11 million people playing it. So it must be good.

LOTRO's quests, and instances are some of the best in the current market, the game is self is constantly showing how turbine is exceptional at what they do, and has a solid finger on the pulse of its community, and the current working of the MMO player base. From the engine, to the updates, to the absolute quality of the game its self, they have shown time and time again that LOTRO is perhaps one of the most refined MMO experiences ever created.

As a new player, if you send me your e-mail, ill send you a trail, so you can finally play the game you talk so much crap about.

Yes, even "Professional critics" say the same thing....

To each his own.

This expansion was fantastic, and flexes turbines technical skill. Get over it.

 

Before you even say it, i am a fan of all games. However, ignoring what makes LOTRO great is just like ignoring what makes Wow great. This isn’t highlander, there doesn’t need to be only one.

And its interesting how different the opinions of unbiased and profesional reviewers can be.

This is the list of 3 PC editors of IGN.com top 10 favourite  games of the year!

http://pc.ign.com/articles/943/943930p1.html

Guess what?

One of them doesnt have either MoM or Wotlk on his list

One of them have Mines of Moria as #4 but no Wotlk in his top 10

and one them have Wrath of the lich king as #5 but no MoM in his top 10

So what does that tell us? That some think that MoM was better and some think that Wotlk was better and on MMORPG.com the readers voted for Mines of Moria...

 End of the year awards. Great. Yet another thing for players of different games to fight and argue over with >.<

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Gameloading

Short answer: You can't. The result is that this poll is all about fanboyism and bias, not actual product quality.

 

Before you even say it, i am a fan of all games. However, ignoring what makes LOTRO great is just like ignoring what makes Wow great. This isn’t highlander, there doesn’t need to be only one.

 

No disagreement with you responses, MrBloodworth... I agree pretty much 100%, having played both games pretty extensively. When you get past the "surface" stuff, and the standard MMO fare that all MMOs have in common, LoTRO does stand apart on its own as a unique game.

My own sister, who's a raving WoW fan (and thinks I'm nuts for not playing it), subbed to LoTRO for a bit and acknokwledged it; I think she explained it best:

"The controls and the basic things like getting quests and talking to NPCs is similar. Other than that it's a very different game".

Turbine have also been given much praise and accolades, by industry and players alike, since the game's launch at their dedication to regular content updates for no added cost, and an overall sound and stable game.

That said, I do have a question... I'm seeing these terms, catassing and, for the first time in your post, poosticking... What do they mean?

Thanks

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Gameloading

Short answer: You can't. The result is that this poll is all about fanboyism and bias, not actual product quality.

 

Before you even say it, i am a fan of all games. However, ignoring what makes LOTRO great is just like ignoring what makes Wow great. This isn’t highlander, there doesn’t need to be only one.

 

 

No disagreement with you responses, MrBloodworth... I agree pretty much 100%, having played both games pretty extensively. When you get past the "surface" stuff, and the standard MMO fare that all MMOs have in common, LoTRO does stand apart on its own as a unique game.

My own sister, who's a raving WoW fan (and thinks I'm nuts for not playing it), subbed to LoTRO for a bit and acknokwledged it; I think she explained it best:

"The controls and the basic things like getting quests and talking to NPCs is similar. Other than that it's a very different game".

Turbine have also been given much praise and accolades, by industry and players alike, since the game's launch at their dedication to regular content updates for no added cost, and an overall sound and stable game.

That said, I do have a question... I'm seeing these terms, catassing and, for the first time in your post, poosticking... What do they mean?

Thanks

 

catass (n) - One who plays plays an MMO for extreme lengths of time (such as days, weeks, or months of near-uninterrupted play). This may come at the expense of hygiene, social interaction, and nutrition. Originated with the article "The Surreal World" by Hayes Reed where he described an Ultima Online obsessed friend's apartment as, "A den of cat ass and murdered time."

catass (v) - The act of playing an MMO (or any game) for an extreme length of time, to the point that such behavior is easily identified.

Poopsock (n) A person who has become so addicted to their game of choice, that they refuse to leave their computer for extended periods of time and use any nearby container to defecate in, e.g. a sock.
I heard Brian played WoW for 18 hours yesterday, what a poopsock!

Poopsock (v) Playing a game (particularly an MMO) for a very long, uninterrupted session. See above.
Did you hear that Hello Kitty Online is coming out next week? I'm gonna poopsock that mother&$%@!*.

Poopstick (n) Replace sock, with stick.

Originally posted by Papadam

And its interesting how different the opinions of unbiased and profesional reviewers can be.

This is the list of 3 PC editors of IGN.com top 10 favourite  games of the year!

http://pc.ign.com/articles/943/943930p1.html

Guess what?

One of them doesnt have either MoM or Wotlk on his list

One of them have Mines of Moria as #4 but no Wotlk in his top 10

and one them have Wrath of the lich king as #5 but no MoM in his top 10

So what does that tell us? That some think that MoM was better and some think that Wotlk was better and on MMORPG.com the readers voted for Mines of Moria...

 

 

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Gameloading

Short answer: You can't. The result is that this poll is all about fanboyism and bias, not actual product quality.

 

Before you even say it, i am a fan of all games. However, ignoring what makes LOTRO great is just like ignoring what makes Wow great. This isn’t highlander, there doesn’t need to be only one.

 

 

No disagreement with you responses, MrBloodworth... I agree pretty much 100%, having played both games pretty extensively. When you get past the "surface" stuff, and the standard MMO fare that all MMOs have in common, LoTRO does stand apart on its own as a unique game.

My own sister, who's a raving WoW fan (and thinks I'm nuts for not playing it), subbed to LoTRO for a bit and acknokwledged it; I think she explained it best:

"The controls and the basic things like getting quests and talking to NPCs is similar. Other than that it's a very different game".

Turbine have also been given much praise and accolades, by industry and players alike, since the game's launch at their dedication to regular content updates for no added cost, and an overall sound and stable game.

That said, I do have a question... I'm seeing these terms, catassing and, for the first time in your post, poosticking... What do they mean?

Thanks

 

 

catass (n) - One who plays plays an MMO for extreme lengths of time (such as days, weeks, or months of near-uninterrupted play). This may come at the expense of hygiene, social interaction, and nutrition. Originated with the article "The Surreal World" by Hayes Reed where he described an Ultima Online obsessed friend's apartment as, "A den of cat ass and murdered time."

catass (v) - The act of playing an MMO (or any game) for an extreme length of time, to the point that such behavior is easily identified.

Poopsock (n) A person who has become so addicted to their game of choice, that they refuse to leave their computer for extended periods of time and use any nearby container to defecate in, e.g. a sock.
I heard Brian played WoW for 18 hours yesterday, what a poopsock!

Poopsock (v) Playing a game (particularly an MMO) for a very long, uninterrupted session. See above.
Did you hear that Hello Kitty Online is coming out next week? I'm gonna poopsock that mother&$%@!*.

Poopstick (n) Replace sock, with stick.

lol awesome.

Luckily I don't fit any of those categories :-p

Thanks

Your welcome.

here i have a hunch for results... What if the wow players were to atracted to the game, and nver got on any other site cuz there to busy enjoying or not enjoying just wasting there life?...

nah idk. i like turbine, i liked lotro. just as i saw i did not have enough time at that point to keep playing lotro, i never tried expansion, but i believe turbine would have done a fine job. im no wow boy, im no Lotro boy either. i just play a game i see fit to my style, time, and quality.

I think LOTRO is an alright MMO, nothing spectacular. The issue I have currently is they are trying to mimic WoW too much and I dislike the direction WoW took their game. I left LOTRO because of class balance issues they have caused in the expansion. They have introduced trait lines for one that mimic WoWs talent tree system providing players ways to diverge away from their role. I see this as blurring class roles as they did in WoW and ruined WoW.

I liked WoW in the beginning when we had defined class roles. Now classes are all dps with a little flare between them. In LOTRO it seems they are aiming for that same broken system. They recently changed class descriptions of game roles for some of their classes ... which you should not do midgame on any game. Burglars are hardly primary debuffers any more, which in the moria manual doesn't even claim they are anymore. Champions the aoe dps class is main tanking more than any class at the moment. Guardians are having the same issues Warriors were having in WoW with agro issues and not being wanted after the devs decided to try to go down the same road WoW has. What is funny is they are having the same issues WoW did as they do it.

LOTRO has become about DPSing dungeons instead of strong group strategy of the original. The way the people on this forum make the game sound is as if it was the perfect MMO. I just want to say, LOTRO is an alright MMO, it has problems like any other MMO. They introduced a lot of balance issues in the expansion and threw class roles in a loop a bit. The content in the dungeon is a little too easy. The dungeon monsters hit for too little to the point no one cares if they pull agro, it will not cause a light armor wearers death if they did anyhow.

I dislike it when MMOs drastically restructure classes and there roles mid game after you chose your character for the reasons you did. I did not like it in WoW and I did not like it in LOTRO. No bias here, I currently do not play either. I let my subscription end recently after doing all the content and coming to the realization that indeed LOTRO is very similar in WoW in the fact they are going away from solid class roles. Still it is an okay casual game, not much to do in the game but it is very solo friendly and doesn't require much time to accomplish anything.

Overall I would probably give it a 8.5. It is one of the better MMOs out right now if that tells you anything. 

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Originally posted by duwat1982d

Wish all the bent out of shape WOW players weren't such sore losers, and yes I agree that I have a feeling if the results were different that all these people saying that MMORPG's awards aren't really big would be singing a different toon if Lich King had won.

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Or maybe we were just too busy having fun to come here and vote in your stupid poll.

Wait, I mean being giant tools and racing to level 80 so we don't miss out on any DKP.

Originally posted by einexile

 

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Originally posted by duwat1982d

 

Wish all the bent out of shape WOW players weren't such sore losers, and yes I agree that I have a feeling if the results were different that all these people saying that MMORPG's awards aren't really big would be singing a different toon if Lich King had won.

---

 

Or maybe we were just too busy having fun to come here and vote in your stupid poll.

Wait, I mean being giant tools and racing to level 80 so we don't miss out on any DKP.

But not to busy to whine about the results?