Profile: mklinic
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• • The Official Recruit a Friend thread.

  • Originally posted by boobear256
    

     Can you please send me invite to boobear256 at gmail.com.

    Thank you 

     

    sent.

  • Posted: 11/14/08 9:19 AM
    World of Warcraft
• • Here we go again, downtime again today....

  • Originally posted by Pappy13
    

    Originally posted by mklinic
    

    I'm sorry your cable went out for a few minutes, however, had it gone out a couple days, most people would find that unacceptable.

    But if they had told me in advance that they were about to do a major upgrade of my service and that it might be out for an extended period of time and apologized for the inconvenience while it was off and knocked off a couple days of time off my bill as compensation, I would have understood.  See the difference?

    Over the past few weeks, Blizzard has had a number of "few minute" and I don't believe I have complained about any of those. I consider myself to have fairly reasonable expectations of service, regardless of the product, and I can certainly understand when there is a minor issue.

    This is different.  They are preparing for a major new release of software.  Pretty much everyone has known it was coming.  They announced in advance that the servers would be down for extended maintenance and they continued to make updates when the time went longer than they anticipated.  I'm not saying you have to just grin an bear it, but at the same time this was not totally unexpected or shocking to anyone.

    To be honest, I can't recall the last time Comcast had an outtage here. I use them for phone, cable and internet.

    I had Comcast for awhile and normally had good service, but there were times when I would miss anywhere from 2 to 8 hours of service.  I also paid them approximately $50 a month for internet access.

    Maybe I am just lucky, but they have met my expectations and I would certainly expect another company that i pay to do the same.

    And if they don't?  What's your recourse?  You complain.  I got no problem with you complaining, just don't expect me to be sympathetic because it happens to all of us from time to time.  It's expected.  It happens.

    To the point of being able to use Blizzard's forum, it seems common that if the game is down, the forum is inaccessible. This may be to sheer volume or related to the overall problem.

    Not may be, It IS sheer volume.  The game servers being down has nothing at all to do with the forum issues except that the forum activity increases about a hundred fold when the servers are down.

    I did call when they had problems in the past, and was told it was being worked on. Despite asking for more details, I was basically read the script from their little news blurb. So yes, in principle you could certainly call, but experience has proven that to be a fairly fruitless excercise.

    What do you want them to do?  Ask for your help on fixing the problem?

    You certainly have a point that some of these other large companies have been around a while, but then, the other point is that they are not working with new technology and neither is Blizzard. At the heart of it, they use servers, internet protocols, and various software. They have been writing software for a farily long time so I can't say that is new to them. The current issues appeared to be related to software, or db related, and not capacity as I stated. I suppose, to expect them to be experts in the field they currently dominate is a bit much?

    Truth is you have NO idea whatsoever what the problem is and neither do I and Blizzard isn't going to tell us.  We can speculate all we want, doesn't mean a damn thing.

    Now certainly anyone can say what they want. Your post demonastrates that some people take the time to think through their response. The flip side is represented by the "QQ more" and "stfu" type comments. Sure if you want to debate whether Blizzard handled the recent outtage properly, or whether there should be a reasonable expectation of service then great. Further, what a reasonable expectation of service would be. I suppose, i was just blowing off steam about people blowing off steam about people blowing off steam. Seems a self-perpetuating cycle eh?

    Welcome to the forums. :)

    
    

     

    Previous to comcast, I had a DSL provider. They would often communicate that they were doing maintenance and it would often run over their estimated time. Sure, they would compensate the time their service was unavailable, but much like WoW, there were limited windows of time that I could use said service and the ability to use was more appealing then compensation for not being able to use. Eventually, it became enough of an issue that I sought out another provider.

    As far as this being different, Blizzard has had major releases, large patches, and any number of other scenarios regarding their products. Again this is not new to them and, had they said "we're going to be down for 1 1/2 - 2 days" I don't think there would be much issue. Instead, they said extended maintenance which they missed the window on. Then, after maintenance they had problems. Having problems will happen, but to keep telling people "we'll be up in one hour", "we'll be up in three hours", "we'll be have an update in an hour", "we have no ETA" is a bit rediculous (in my opinion of course).

    Now the forum thing, it is well known that people will tr yto hit their forums when the servers are down and that they are usually overwhelemd at that point. However, had i said just "sheer volume" someone would have inevitably argued that it was tied to the problems...so that was covering bases.

    Ultimately, I can only theorize, like anyone else who is not involved in actually fixing the problem, as to the actual root cause. I certainly do have an idea as to what the problem, however it's validaity is certainly debatable. After all, what is speculation without ideas?

    I can understnad those who say it's no big deal and I was in this camp at the start. But after reading the past couple days worth of threads, I've come down on the side of those who think this is pretty poor performance by Blizzard. I certainly don't expect sympathy and don't believe that I asked for it anywhere in my post. I also don't expect Blizzard to really care about my opinion, but as you point out, these forums are here for just that and clearly, people care enough about others' opinions to keep these threads going.

    As it goes, I've been here for a couple years now. I am familiar with how the threads go and am generally not motivated to throw my hat into a conversation since there is normally a pretty specific template most threads follow. This topic after reading it for the past couple days, combined with the impending release of WoTLK, motivated me to comment. It's nice to see reasoned, opposing views and I am certainly one who can agree to disagree. :)

     

  • Posted: 11/12/08 5:53 PM
    World of Warcraft
• • Here we go again, downtime again today....

  • Originally posted by Pappy13
    

    Originally posted by mklinic
    

    Trimmed some of the quote to address, what I feel, is the important part. While I echo other people's sentiment, I did not state anything more specific then "large companies". This for the pure fact that that is about as specific as you need to get. A large company that has invested adequately in infrastructure and staffing will likely be able to maintain a content customer base. It is just a simple rule that applies to any business.

    So do you expect the same compentancy from your Cable TV provider?  Satelite TV?  How about your Internet provider?  Cell phone service?  Even your phone service?  None of these "large companies" provide 24X7 uninterrupted service. 

    Just last night my cable went out for a few minutes for no apparent reason whatsoever.  They weren't doing ANYTHING.  No upgrades for a major release.  No storm in the area.  No new equipment.  Nothing.  Just dropped and didn't come back for around 10 minutes.  And I didn't call the Police.  I didn't call the Fire Department.  I didn't even call the cable company.  I just sat and waited 10 minutes till it came back on.

    The difference, when you mention a major ISP, phone provider, or other 'infrastructure' type service, is that other large companies buy products from them and have much more leverage then a handful of disgruntled consumers at street level.

    And yet they STILL can't provide uninterrupted service.  Why should you hold Blizzard to a higher standard?

    Ultimately, you pay for a product, be it a game, phone service, or something else. You expect to be able to use to product/service you purchased. If you are unable to use that product/service, I think it is human nature to at least want to know why. I am not saying full disclosure along the lines of  "Bob tripped over a power cord.", but at least something that, as another poster pointed out, doesn't mistake all their customers for being kids.

    And Blizzard attempts to give you that information.  There is a forum for just this purpose.  Sometimes the forums have issues too, so there is customer service which you can call or send an e-mail.

    I guess, my confusion stems from the fact Blizzard has done all this before. They have released an expansion pack. They have tested patches. They have had millions of customers for some time now.

    And the cable company has been in business how long?  Phones?  Internet?  I venture to guess these companies have been in business a hell of a lot longer than even Blizzard has been around let along WoW.

    Now, as I said, generally, I've been pretty content and don't plan to cancel over this. It just seems silly that people would come in and demand people "stop being disappointed this minute!" whenever someone makes a post expressing displessure over the outtage. Not that you do this specifically mind you. I am all for finding something else to do until an issue is resolved, but I understand those who are angry and cannot access the WoW forums to express this. This place becomes the next logical outlet for many.

    And it also becomes the place for many that are not actually sitting at home twiddling their fingers while waiting for the servers to come back up to go and see what people are saying on the forums and respond to them.  They are not directly inconvenienced, or perhaps they are, but they see that Blizzard is by and large a very reputable company and has given them many hours of enjoyment and so they are somewhat more sympathetic towards them.  They have a right to see what the people are saying and voice their displeasure with people as well, don't they?  The forums work both ways.  They allow people with a problem to blow off some steam and they allow those that have a problem with those blowing off some steam to blow off some steam.

     

    I'm sorry your cable went out for a few minutes, however, had it gone out a couple days, most people would find that unacceptable. Over the past few weeks, Blizzard has had a number of "few minute" and I don't believe I have complained about any of those. I consider myself to have fairly reasonable expectations of service, regardless of the product, and I can certainly understand when there is a minor issue.

    To be honest, I can't recall the last time Comcast had an outtage here. I use them for phone, cable and internet. Maybe I am just lucky, but they have met my expectations and I would certainly expect another company that i pay to do the same.

    To the point of being able to use Blizzard's forum, it seems common that if the game is down, the forum is inaccessible. This may be to sheer volume or related to the overall problem. I did call when they had problems in the past, and was told it was being worked on. Despite asking for more details, I was basically read the script from their little news blurb. So yes, in principle you could certainly call, but experience has proven that to be a fairly fruitless excercise.

    You certainly have a point that some of these other large companies have been around a while, but then, the other point is that they are not working with new technology and neither is Blizzard. At the heart of it, they use servers, internet protocols, and various software. They have been writing software for a farily long time so I can't say that is new to them. The current issues appeared to be related to software, or db related, and not capacity as I stated. I suppose, to expect them to be experts in the field they currently dominate is a bit much?

    Now certainly anyone can say what they want. Your post demonastrates that some people take the time to think through their response. The flip side is represented by the "QQ more" and "stfu" type comments. Sure if you want to debate whether Blizzard handled the recent outtage properly, or whether there should be a reasonable expectation of service then great. Further, what a reasonable expectation of service would be. I suppose, i was just blowing off steam about people blowing off steam about people blowing off steam. Seems a self-perpetuating cycle eh?

  • Posted: 11/12/08 4:17 PM
    World of Warcraft
• • Here we go again, downtime again today....

  • Originally posted by Pappy13
    

    Originally posted by mklinic
    

    Instead, I would echo the sentiment that there are a number of large companies that manage to meet their SLA's becuase they have invested an adequate amount in their infrastructure and staffing.

    
     The difference here is we are talking about a game and not some company that really can't afford to have any downtime.

     

    Trimmed some of the quote to address, what I feel, is the important part. While I echo other people's sentiment, I did not state anything more specific then "large companies". This for the pure fact that that is about as specific as you need to get. A large company that has invested adequately in infrastructure and staffing will likely be able to maintain a content customer base. It is just a simple rule that applies to any business. If a company has grown too quickly, which is something Blizzard saw early on, then it is certainly understandable that they need time to ramp up to the unexpected demand. The recent issues, by all accounts, were not issues of demand though.

    The difference, when you mention a major ISP, phone provider, or other 'infrastructure' type service, is that other large companies buy products from them and have much more leverage then a handful of disgruntled consumers at street level. Ultimately, you pay for a product, be it a game, phone service, or something else. You expect to be able to use to product/service you purchased. If you are unable to use that product/service, I think it is human nature to at least want to know why. I am not saying full disclosure along the lines of  "Bob tripped over a power cord.", but at least something that, as another poster pointed out, doesn't mistake all their customers for being kids.

    I guess, my confusion stems from the fact Blizzard has done all this before. They have released an expansion pack. They have tested patches. They have had millions of customers for some time now. They have also been lackluster with the communication in the past (with some exceptions). So that is what is irritating. Nothing they are doing is new to them. They've been through this process before. Why all the problems this time? Just a rhetorical question....

    Now, as I said, generally, I've been pretty content and don't plan to cancel over this. It just seems silly that people would come in and demand people "stop being disappointed this minute!" whenever someone makes a post expressing displessure over the outtage. Not that you do this specifically mind you. I am all for finding something else to do until an issue is resolved, but I understand those who are angry and cannot access the WoW forums to express this. This place becomes the next logical outlet for many.

  • Posted: 11/12/08 2:25 PM
    World of Warcraft
• • Here we go again, downtime again today....

  • Originally posted by templarga

    
    Its funny - so many people want to blame Blizzard and say "because they are a huge company" they should not have these issues; I would like to point out the opposite.....many of these issues crop up because they are so big.

     

    This is sort of circular logic. I mean, it could be read; if you are buying a product from a company, helping them succeed, then you are actually contributing to them having issues. Therefore, the customers are clearly the problem!

    Instead, I would echo the sentiment that there are a number of large companies that manage to meet their SLA's becuase they have invested an adequate amount in their infrastructure and staffing.

    If you were to say gameplay features were a certain way becuase they need to accomodate such a large playerbase, I would completely agree. But this current issue appears to be an infrastructure (network, db, server, etc) or staffing (dba, network admin, etc) issue that a company with significant resources should not be experiencing.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'll still get WoTLK and have no intention of canceling over this. It just gives me more time to play devil's advocate on forums. :)

  • Posted: 11/12/08 12:07 PM
    World of Warcraft