Dragon Age Sex Controversy Examined
MMORPG.com's Dana Massey writes this article taking a look at the recent controversy sparked by what WorldNetDaily described as "dirty gay sex."
Editorial By Dana Massey on December 09, 2009
I confess. I boinked the elf and I did it for the achievements.
Recently, as videos circulated online, conservative website WorldNetDaily kicked off a controversy about Bioware’s Dragon Age. The video in question shows (and I am quoting WND) “dirty gay sex” in a video game.
advertisement Naturally, people freaked out.
The problem is that the original WorldNetDaily report was quite clearly based off a YouTube video, not any actual experience with the game itself.
If they had played the game, they’d probably be far more upset. Dragon Age also features digital prostitutes, lesbians, rather clean three way sex, inter-species erotica, war, decapitation, thinly veiled social commentary, alcohol, drug addiction, slavery, racism, sexism, sexual harassment, genocide, the death of children, demons, and more blood than a vampire drinking game.
;) | ;) |
Hetero and Lesbian kisses look almost the same.
I mean, clearly, only children play video games and thus Bioware, EA and Wal-Mart are involved in a radical agenda to pervert the nation’s youth. To quote Helen Lovejoy, “Won’t someone think of the children!?”
Newflash. Someone did. The ESRB rated the game “M” for mature, although I’d hope the blood, gore and decapitations had more to do with it than who your character might choose to have a very PG cut scene with.
Dragon Age was promoted as a game of choices and grey morality. It is supposed to make people think, and not just present black and white options.
That aside, the game rewards people who do the right think, like not cheating on people they’ve committed themselves to. And, God forbid Wal-Mart sells a video game that educates people about not cheating on their significant others.
Unfortunately, it also included an achievement system and that achievement system is what caused me to morally stray from the straight and narrow path.
I say it again: I boinked the elf and I did it for the achievements.
Without the achievements, my female Arcane Warrior would have conducted a mature, long-term relationship with her girlfriend Leliana, a vaguely French sounding bard. Unfortunately, there is an achievement for sleeping with the bi-sexual elf Zevran and the power of this achievement compelled me. I cheated on Leliana for a pop-up window.
;) | ;) |
;) | ;) |
Leilana, Zervan, Alistar and Morrigan. All possible love interests
I’d probably have slept with Alistar, the goody-two-shoes Templar, had he not been so offended by my slaughter of innocent children, scholars, and affinity for werewolves.
Ok, so maybe I wasn’t on the straight and narrow path to begin with.
The fact is Dragon Age doesn’t really promote one agenda over another. You’re not going to end up in bed with a bi-sexual elf unless you start flirting with him. If homosexuality offends so deeply that you need to put Dragon Age on the most offensive Christmas present list, you’re probably not going to be walking down that road in the first place. The game doesn’t force you to sleep with the elf unless you choose to.
The good news for the gay community is that apparently social values have progressed far enough in the last few years that lesbians are now OK. Mass Effect, Bioware’s last game, got banned in Singapore for a lesbian storyline. No one so much batted an eye about that in Dragon Age.
Not that there’s anything to bat an eye about. Everyone keeps their underwear on. All six possible love scenes are basically a series of brief shots faded from one to the next and none show much of anything. In fact, the gay and lesbians scenes, although different, are played out in surprisingly, shall we say… heterosexual positions.
;)
You quite literally pick from
a lineup of prostitutes.
Heck, you even arrive at them through virtually the same dialogue.
Dragon Age does have its own biases built in though. Try as you might, the old female cleric Wynn is in a relationship no fly zone. You also cannot sleep with the dwarf, the golem (ouch!), the large Klingon-esque creature, or the dog.
At least Wynn is human! If you play as a human in the game, of the four people who you could possibly sleep with, only one is human. If you play as an elf, there are three opportunities to cross pollinate. As a dwarf, you have no chance at all for long term love among your own species.
The game does feature an array of fling options. There are digital prostitutes – male and female regardless of your character’s gender – for the low price of 40 silver, a ship’s captain who is open to a ménage-a-trois, a young elf who can be “taught a few things,” and many others.
There are so many things to possibly be offended by in Dragon Age, that it shows the honest agenda of groups like WorldNewsDaily. It’s homophobia, plain and simple.
Bioware and EA took a lot of risks in this game and produced a very mature, but entertaining video game. While a few wingnuts will only see a few YouTube videos, it was good to see someone push the genre forward. They presented elements of our world in a way that wasn’t sensational or done for the press. The game caused players to consider their moral positions on various issues that while presented through a fantasy world, have major real world implications.
Regardless of your position on the various issues Dragon Age explored, we want to know what you think of the idea as a whole. Do you think video games are the appropriate place to explore hot button social, religious and political ideas? Or do you think games like Dragon Age push the envelope too far?
Wouldn't be the first time it happened.
www.youtube.com/watch
It's about as funny as it is pathetic. BioWare should push more buttons I like watching the media make a big deal out of nothing.
I have nothing against the game, I'm an adult, I'm not challenged by pixels.
However the writer(s?) on website which called it "dirty gay sex" should be condemned as a bigot and a homophobe. He/she didn't criticize the game for its "dirty straight sex," did they?
Sigh. To think we're living in thee 21st c.
A popular role-playing combat video game featuring graphic homosexual sex between a man and an elf has hit store shelves just in time for Christmas.
"Dragon Age: Origins," released Nov. 3 for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, depicts two men in various sex positions in a secret scene of homosexual seduction.
The game is by BioWare, makers of "Mass Effect," "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" and "Baldur's Gate." It has a "Mature" rating.
In one video clip posted online, a player selects the role-playing option, "I want to discuss something personal."
During a fireside chat, the player's Grey Warden character asks warrior elf Zevran, "Can you join me in my tent?"
The elf reveals he specializes in assassination, and the other character replies, "I bet you're good at a lot of things."
The elf responds, "Mmmm, that's quite an offer, especially coming from another man – if we are both speaking of the same thing."
If the player selects the response, "I suspect we are," the elf agrees to have homosexual sex with the character.
The video cuts to a scene in which the two men are dirty, naked and kissing. They are depicted in various homosexual sex positions, and the clip concludes with the two nestling together and gazing into one another's eyes.
*giggle* Anyways, it doesn't even mention....Leliana and a female character just Zev and a male character...this is only part of the article it goes on about Connor after that.
What is the problem really??? You don't HAVE to be male to sleep with Zev, you can be female too...She says they are naked too...I believe we are still in undergarments when having sex..unless you mod the game to be nude.
Oh no! A mature rated game has mature content! It's clearly evil and Bioware should be ashamed for not being pigheaded bigots and forcing a single-minded point of view on everyone! I mean, you're forced to not only play this game but you're forced to partake in sexual actions against your will in a virtual world!
Oh wait, none of that is true.
This is just to fuel the many prejudice fools into a rage. This will also upset more religious followers then anything, wonder what Westboro Baptist Church would do with this?
I don't even understand why games have ratings anymore, I guess they missed the big M that contained information about sexual activity in the game. I'll never understand people being so uncomfortable with sex.
People who get upset over the content of a video game need to gtfo. If you dont like it, dont play it, dont let your kids play it. Its as simple as that. There are far worse things in movies than in any Bioware game, so why does the fact that its a game make it different? There are adult movies, and adult games, leave it at that. End nerd rage.
*sigh* At least if they were offended because there is sex scene even if almost everyone can agree that seeing 2 person in undergarments is far from being a sex scene that would be fine. But nooo, they pick up on the male/male relationship that can be established.
And people say society progress. That show right there it's not the case, well not everywhere anyway.
Anyone create a full nudity patch for Dragon Age yet?
I don't see a reason to make a mountain out of a mole hill. They did it tastefully in my opinion, and that makes all the difference. The fact you can play your character as a homosexual shouldn't be considered derogatory.
Grand Theft Auto, you can play a homicidal maniac.
God of War I, II, III had sex mini games that were far more graphic.
Dragon Age is PG in my opinion compared to those two games, and it still has an M rating.
what controversy?
I will never understand this idea that it is more socially acceptable to murder a person than to have sex with one. I see it again and again. It confuses me every time.
How does what WND post on their site affect any gamers who may or may not play Dragon Age? WND doesn't like graphic depictions of sex of ANY kind: gay, bisexual, transgender and yes, guess what HETEROsexual sex either. No, I'm sure they don't want to censor this game, but let's see: even if they DO, so what? It has an "M" rating, it's been distributed, and every news site in the world can condemn it if they want to. It doesn't affect YOUR gaming experience in any way.
Not sure why Dana wrote this one. So we can start a flamewar about religion, censorship & politics? So we can all start condemning "the other side" without bothering to actually find out they are real people with opinions of their own? Not getting it...
It's good to read an article from an impartial source.
THIS POST BROUGHT TO YOU BY DRAGON AGE! (in stores now)
(kidding ;) )
More right wing fanatics trying to impose their morals on everyone else. What's new?
With all do respect, they started it. Today this shouldn't even be a problem.
Oh, Welcome to
the internetreal life, where your opinion will be judged, if you would not like to be judged don't share your opinion which means we wont have to share ours.Apparently homosexuality is the root of all evil and is the most pressing concern to conservatives.
Then again, global warming is a myth. (lol).
WND is for retarded people.....
I've been having dirty gay sex in SIMS for years, as a female avatar of course. So this article isn't exactly on top of the gaming market standards.
Anyways, sex is a part of life and people need to get that through their head.
Apparently homosexuality is the root of all evil and is the most pressing concern to conservatives.
Then again, global warming is a myth. (lol).
Hahaha, there isn't even "various homosexual sex positions" in this game like they claim so they are lying to start controversy. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends!
I would think we have more important things to worry about in this world then a Mature 18+ game.
Hahaha, there isn't even graphic sexual positions in this game like they claim. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends!
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Hahaha, there isn't even graphic sexual positions in this game like they claim. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends!
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Great start. I'm waiting for the Wookie sex.
Yes they have...I have it. Lol
Wookie nookie?! (my apologies for that)
Apparently homosexuality is the root of all evil and is the most pressing concern to conservatives.
Then again, global warming is a myth. (lol).
Here we go, a nice conservative bashing thread. Guess it had to happen. Since we're doing thread derails on Global Warming, we might as well have some fun: http://volokh.com/2009/12/08/the-homogenized-data-is-false/
Honestly, I'm so tired of having to hear this absolute bologna. Now, I would agree that this shouldn't be around kids younger than the age of 16, but it has a Mature rating. If it falls into an 11-year old's hands or the hands of a 13-year old, it's not the creator of the game's fault, it's the parents. As for the gay sex, I don't care. This simply makes the game more open for those people who are gay/lesbian. It's just another example of art imitating life. Finally, a game pushes the limits of right wing morality. Sex is just another part of life. I really want to get Dragon Age It looks like a really fun game. ^^
LOL, I have enjoyed gay sex in my day and I can say it is as dirty or clean as straight sex. When will people stop imposing their moral views to the rest of us? Consensual sex is something private, whatever its form. Beheading, killing, slaving is not consensual, it is evil, yet some self-righteous people are shocked when a nipple is hinted while ignoring the blood and gore elsewhere in the games. These guys, and all those listening to their crap, are in need of some moral rewiring of their brains.
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
This is all just laying the groundwork for the Billy Herrington MMO that will be released in 2013 and will dictate the way we live our lives from that day forward.
I can't wait.
Being conservative is not a choice. Its in their genes. We shouldn't treat them like its a birth defect, or force them to fight their very genetic nature.
Please, show them the respect they deserve. We are all beautiful and unique snowflakes.
PS: Anyone have a link for the DA Nudity patch?
Hahaha, there isn't even graphic sexual positions in this game like they claim. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends!
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Well, you do realise that spooning leads to forking, right?
To bad that was left out, seeing Morrigan getting forked would have been epic. Go go DA2?!
Here we go, a nice conservative bashing thread. Guess it had to happen. Since we're doing thread derails on Global Warming, we might as well have some fun: http://volokh.com/2009/12/08/the-homogenized-data-is-false/
Um, in fairness, I don't think you'll find a single liberal person affiliated with that site. A spade is a spade and if there is one set of people who harbor the most hate for any kind of change (social, economic, whatever) it's the right wing folks. You don't see liberals or moderates setting up sites bashing people for their lifestyles. No, they only bash conservatives (those that want to, not all of them do). Why? Because Conservatives started in with the hate long ago.
"Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone"...
Man, conservatives started picking up rocks the moment this was first said looking to hit someone.
To bad that was left out, seeing Morrigan getting forked would have been epic. Go go DA2?!
There is still hope. They provided all the tools the community needs to make it happen.
"If they had played the game, they’d probably be far more upset. Dragon Age also features digital prostitutes, lesbians, rather clean three way sex, inter-species erotica, war, decapitation, thinly veiled social commentary, alcohol, drug addiction, slavery, racism, sexism, sexual harassment, genocide, the death of children, demons, and more blood than a vampire drinking game."
This game sounds so awesome!
Yes, yes I do.
http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=221
Geez, you would get more "graphical" images just doing a google image search. I have to wonder at the mentality of the news people sometimes. On one hand you have to pay to watch what is essentially a cartoon that barely comes close to PG; on the other hand you get free porn via the net. And they go crazy on this (*Rolls Eyes*).
Then again it could be just another publicity stunt. After all, lets not forget the tried and true rule of any business, i.e. sex sells.
Everyone wins. Conservative loons have something to write about, their readers have something to get outraged about, and DA gets some free hype.
Here we go, a nice conservative bashing thread. Guess it had to happen. Since we're doing thread derails on Global Warming, we might as well have some fun: http://volokh.com/2009/12/08/the-homogenized-data-is-false/
Um, in fairness, I don't think you'll find a single liberal person affiliated with that site. A spade is a spade and if there is one set of people who harbor the most hate for any kind of change (social, economic, whatever) it's the right wing folks. You don't see liberals or moderates setting up sites bashing people for their lifestyles. No, they only bash conservatives (those that want to, not all of them do). Why? Because Conservatives started in with the hate long ago.
"Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone"...
Man, conservatives started picking up rocks the moment this was first said looking to hit someone.
I have a hard time with the above statement. I figure I am pretty much a conservative, but lean toward pro-choice and have no problems with homosexuals at all. However, I am pretty sure that we don't have enough data to prove Global Warming, and I think Obama's healthcare plan is a really bad idea.
What am I?
The point is, "Conservatives" don't have a monopoly on hate - the liberals throw around more than their fair share also. Example? Bush is a 'moron', Quayle is an idiot, Palin...well, she's been called all sorts of things. The treatment of the so-called conservative leaders has been at least as hateful as anything that has come out of Glenn Beck's mouth.
As for change....the Fair Tax movement is deemed conservative at the moment - and it would be a very MAJOR change (and one I support).
Well...I've had my say. Off to download the nudity patch :-)
-Finaly something to play before Postal 3 come out lol :P
You know, until I read that about the game I had no interest in playing it;. Now it's tempting... :D
Video games take you from the real world into a different world. In my opnion, you can't go too far. You give people a chance to try something they either would never dream of trying in real life, or didn't have the "balls" to. Honestly people...
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Spooning sucks!
Always have to find that comfortable position for the other arm thats not spooning... and no matter what position (under the pillow, over your head, under your girl friend/boy friends head...) the arm goes numb and falls asleep. Then someone moves and you get that whole pins and needles thing going on...
BAN SPOONING!
As for the article, meh... I tend to ignore small sites like that with reporters who are just trying to get shock value attention.
Though I will laugh if this ends up on Fix- er, Fox news again like Mass Effect.
Um, in fairness, I don't think you'll find a single liberal person affiliated with that site. A spade is a spade and if there is one set of people who harbor the most hate for any kind of change (social, economic, whatever) it's the right wing folks. You don't see liberals or moderates setting up sites bashing people for their lifestyles. No, they only bash conservatives (those that want to, not all of them do). Why? Because Conservatives started in with the hate long ago.
"Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone"...
Man, conservatives started picking up rocks the moment this was first said looking to hit someone.
I have a hard time with the above statement. I figure I am pretty much a conservative, but lean toward pro-choice and have no problems with homosexuals at all. However, I am pretty sure that we don't have enough data to prove Global Warming, and I think Obama's healthcare plan is a really bad idea.
What am I?
The point is, "Conservatives" don't have a monopoly on hate - the liberals throw around more than their fair share also. Example? Bush is a 'moron', Quayle is an idiot, Palin...well, she's been called all sorts of things. The treatment of the so-called conservative leaders has been at least as hateful as anything that has come out of Glenn Beck's mouth.
As for change....the Fair Tax movement is deemed conservative at the moment - and it would be a very MAJOR change (and one I support).
Well...I've had my say. Off to download the nudity patch :-)
Sure, but in the context of this discussion they certainly "threw the first punches". As for the change comment, it is my fault for not clarifying. Change that helps the rich get richer, makes middle class take a sharp punch in the nose and the poor stay poorer is good and dandy for conservatives. Ironically, the vast majority of them fall into the middle class yet they continuously vote for measures that hurt them. That's a research paper right there.
As for Big O's healthcare plan, yeah, it's not perfect, but it's akin to what they have in Great Britain and Canada and they certainly are in better shape than we are. If data really were the point of Conservatives, they shut up on this one and vote yes.
But it's not. The facts don't mean a thing to either side, really. It's about holding the party line, not making a better country.
Oh, and that's the thing that gets me. Your last comment, though I'm not aiming at you in specific. I'm aiming at the folks who run that site. I can guarantee you if an FBI computer forensics team did a sweep of their work and home computers you'd find some of the dirtiest pornographic material ever. Hypocrits.
In fact, that's something I'd like to see. Random inspections of home and office of the morality patrol entities of the world. You want to preach it and clog up my air space, then you better be a Paragon of virtue. You linger for more than a second in the bra section of a JC Penny magazine and I want to know about it cause that's SIN.
I wasn't generalizing all conservatives, nor was I bashing them in general. I make it a point to bash idiots when they do or say something stupid. This website happened to be labeled as conservative, so I took the shot.
I seperate myself from labels in politics, since there's no one side of the table I fully agree with. It just so happens that conservatives seem to like making bigger asses of themselves, so they're an easy target.
Come on, its just some ultra conservative drumrollers who really claim that! Man, there aren't enough foreheads to slap.
As for Big O's healthcare plan, yeah, it's not perfect, but it's akin to what they have in Great Britain and Canada and they certainly are in better shape than we are. If data really were the point of Conservatives, they shut up on this one and vote yes.
But it's not. The facts don't mean a thing to either side, really. It's about holding the party line, not making a better country.
===========================================
(sorry for mangling the whole quote thing)
It's funny - I think in philosophy and outlook, we somewhat agree. "The facts don't mean a thing to either side, really. It's about holding the party line, not making a better country." It's just that I think we interpret the data differently. For example, I think the FairTax would help the lower classes, and remove the loopholes that the top-end people all enjoy. I think GB and Canada are not really in better shape with healthcare. And, I think less regulation is good and leads to innovation, and increased regulation leads to mediocrity and inefficiency.
I am afraid we are getting to the point that any criticism of any idea, regardless of the merit of the criticism, is spun as hate speech by the other side. At least in this conversation, we've avoided that!
Btw, I do agree with your assessment of the folks that are yelling the loudest about nudity in a game. The track records of preachers and priests are decidedly not good in that area.
No offense but..all those things said about Bush, Quayle etc are pretty much true...atleast in relation to Bush 2. The first Bush Administration in the late 80s / early 90s was atleast pretty smart...Bush 2 was just following daddy's path because he was pretty much forced too...not because he wanted to or was even prepared.
Palin was the biggest mistake Republicans could ever make...she's a Prime Example that conservatives dont' practice what they preach. They preach no sex before marriage yet their own kids who they're ignoring while preaching are out there getting knocked up by some moron who goes and puts his johnson in a nudie magazine...or atleast fakes everyone out about it.
Thats not to say that "Liberals" are much better but really...atleast the administration behind Obama and even Clinton were fairly smart. Sure Clinton couldn't keep it in his pants but atleast instead of continuing to brush it under the rug like a Conservative would he finally owned up deciding the lie wasn't worth it because it was the most retarded thing to be busted over while a president.
Personally I think neither party is perfect since they contain humans. Humans are not perfect. I'll remain on the line and swing to which side has the better ideals for the future. Obama has far better ideals and a chance to make it work then the nut jobs in the current Republican party who are going around riling up all the wrong right wing nut jobs out of their trailers spouting things they have no idea about. I mean really? Health Care in this country is a complete sham atleast Obama is trying to get it to everyone without affecting those that like and can afford a private health care plan.
Anyway on topic....Seriously who cares what these right wing news casters think? Everyone..its best to have a good laugh at it because quite honestly they just take a video and make something up without having any idea lol. I mean seriously DA is a mature rated game ... they're not hiding it like say Hot Coffee incident.
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
As for Big O's healthcare plan, yeah, it's not perfect, but it's akin to what they have in Great Britain and Canada and they certainly are in better shape than we are. If data really were the point of Conservatives, they shut up on this one and vote yes.
But it's not. The facts don't mean a thing to either side, really. It's about holding the party line, not making a better country.
===========================================
(sorry for mangling the whole quote thing)
It's funny - I think in philosophy and outlook, we somewhat agree. "The facts don't mean a thing to either side, really. It's about holding the party line, not making a better country." It's just that I think we interpret the data differently. For example, I think the FairTax would help the lower classes, and remove the loopholes that the top-end people all enjoy. I think GB and Canada are not really in better shape with healthcare. And, I think less regulation is good and leads to innovation, and increased regulation leads to mediocrity and inefficiency.
I am afraid we are getting to the point that any criticism of any idea, regardless of the merit of the criticism, is spun as hate speech by the other side. At least in this conversation, we've avoided that!
Btw, I do agree with your assessment of the folks that are yelling the loudest about nudity in a game. The track records of preachers and priests are decidedly not good in that area.
I would agree with your innovation argument .. if it had any merit. Health Care has not improved or been innovated in anyway since the dark ages. Hell its not even really regulated anyone can start up an insurance company and pretty much fubar you by covering as little as possible.
You can either afford it or you can't thats how the system works right now and clinics only really cover the basics if you broke your arm or your really sick you can get pretty F'd over if you dont have insurance. They can drop you at random and say Haha Die Poor or they can pretend to help you then screw you over later by refusing to pay.
The Government Needs to step in and offer alternatives and thats pretty much what Obama is trying to do. He's not taking over or heavily regulating anything..he's simply saying hey can't afford health care? Your not covered? Lost your Health Care plan..here ..here's some Free Health Care that everyone should have basic human rights too. Is it a perfect plan? No but its a hell of alot better than nothing which is what we've had for generations.
If the Health Care Insurance industry had their way they'd forclose on your house take everything you have and leave you bleeding in the street. I wouldn't really care either way if I didn't see the struggle my mother went through after having Breast Cancer trying to get on a health care provider's plan when their company changed providers. She almost lost health care insurance completely because she survived Breast Cancer and a new provider wasn't going to take the risk. Luckily she managed to get on a plan but she pays out the bleeding nose for it. You can be rich and health careless..because they can just say "Your not insurable" your not worth it..you should die. Health Insurance is a Nightmare if you have to change providers.
/rant off god drives me nuts when people use that whole innovative argument for frigging everything. You can't innovate Health Care Insurance thats run by a private group. They do whatever they want they don't give a damn about anyone but their wallets.
I would agree with your innovation argument .. if it had any merit. Health Care has not improved or been innovated in anyway since the dark ages. Hell its not even really regulated anyone can start up an insurance company and pretty much fubar you by covering as little as possible.
You can either afford it or you can't thats how the system works right now and clinics only really cover the basics if you broke your arm or your really sick you can get pretty F'd over if you dont have insurance. They can drop you at random and say Haha Die Poor or they can pretend to help you then screw you over later by refusing to pay.
The Government Needs to step in and offer alternatives and thats pretty much what Obama is trying to do. He's not taking over or heavily regulating anything..he's simply saying hey can't afford health care? Your not covered? Lost your Health Care plan..here ..here's some Free Health Care that everyone should have basic human rights too. Is it a perfect plan? No but its a hell of alot better than nothing which is what we've had for generations.
If the Health Care Insurance industry had their way they'd forclose on your house take everything you have and leave you bleeding in the street. I wouldn't really care either way if I didn't see the struggle my mother went through after having Breast Cancer trying to get on a health care provider's plan when their company changed providers. She almost lost health care insurance completely because she survived Breast Cancer and a new provider wasn't going to take the risk. Luckily she managed to get on a plan but she pays out the bleeding nose for it. You can be rich and health careless..because they can just say "Your not insurable" your not worth it..you should die. Health Insurance is a Nightmare if you have to change providers.
The part of not wanting to take over healthcare might be more believable if not for what happened with GM and a good number of the banks in the country.
Health Insurance Isn't in debt...last time i looked those Banks were pretty much about to sink and take a ton of innocent people with them. Thats a pretty big difference. The health care industry is frigging Mad Rich....Banks/ They made stupid risky investments in giving people loans that they can not realistically afford. Not to mention playing on the stock market which was just dumb in the first place with how lopsided its been since 9/11
Not sure I can comment on the car industry..maybe if we made Better Cars for the money people wouldn't buy fancy forgien cars.
BTW if the government as so much even thinks about Bailing out the Insurance industry instead of improving health care...I'll hitch up my stuff and Move. Damn tired of greedy ass companies that make bad mistakes getting pay outs.
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Um what are you talking about?
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Bioware is a god amonst developers. Not only do they push the concepts of virtual worlds forward with each game but they also show no fear in holding a mirror upto the world. If someone is offended by Dragon Age then they should leave earth because EVERYTHING in dragon age save the magic can and does happen here in the real world.
As for video games depicting real world theings I say go for it! Video Games are a medium of expression just as music, art, movies, and books are. Why restrict them if you're not willing to restrict them all. I agree the WorldNewsthinga-ma-bob is just a bigots network and yes it is fun to watch Bioware stir up the tight wads.
Why am I not playing this game?
Didn't bother to read this drivel, I'm just curious; Is there any particular reason you guys are spamming a website called MMORPG.com with news and articles about this mediocre and ridiculously overhyped RPG?
Well, because while this might be mmorpg, it is an rpg...and by the looks of it sponsors a lot on this website. It is a really great game, it has a good, if not great, storyline behind it. It is not for everyone but it is really good and I like it. Plus...gonna make another female character and go with Leliana.
Because their 'opinion' is degrading towards gay people. Not to mention, incredibly hypocrite if they know about what the game lets you do. If you were right, they wouldnt have specifically named it 'gaysex'. Any person that believes in equal rights, would get worked up about it.
And you are also contradicting yourself. This is not a flamewar, just someone who voices his opinion about an article of WND. According to you everyone is entitled to voice their opinion. But apparently not if someone has a negative opinion about an article in WND, right?
Dragon Age is the child of Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate is one of the father's of PC gaming RPGs. Thats why Dragon Age is mentioned frequently on this website.
And rightly so. Its a fantastic game.... but not for everyone. Its a game made for those people who played and loved Baldur's Gate and I just flat out don't care if anyone doesn't like it.
The MMORPG genre could really benefit from presenting Story like Bioware and Dragon Age does... People get tired of MMOs so rapidly because a lackluster Combat System and Loot... isn't enough for a human to really keep loving.
And... these controversies are fantastic. I hope more wicked wicked Gay Sex ends up in games to come.
Did anyone else ever tell the proprietor at the Pearl "surprise me"? The result is rather hilarious...
I was too afraid to...what happened?
So because someone does not agree with you, they should be condemned?? ohh wait, forgot thats how liberals think, be tolerant of everyone that agrees with you and condemn the rest as being intolerant...
Sigh. To think we're living in the 21st c.
So because someone does not agree with you, they should be condemned?? ohh wait, forgot thats how liberals think, be tolerant of everyone that agrees with you and condemn the rest as being intolerant...
Sigh. To think we're living in the 21st c.
I believe those can have their own opinions but to misinform especially when saying that the two gay men are not only dirty but naked while preforming MANY sex acts in the game..was uncalled for, first of all...they look very clean and I see a pair of boxers on these men...
As a liberal, you have the right to your own opinion but don't misinform nor shove your opinion down my throat. ALSO! She, yes the author of this article is a she...only complained about Zev and a Male PC...no mention anywhere about Leliana and the Female PC...do I see a double standard? It is wrong for two men but two women it is okay?
So because someone does not agree with you, they should be condemned?? ohh wait, forgot thats how liberals think, be tolerant of everyone that agrees with you and condemn the rest as being intolerant...
Sigh. To think we're living in the 21st c.
The writer of the WND article did just that (underlined).
Its interesting that you condone that, but not someone who wants to voice their opinion about that article. You are so biased lol.
Not to mention that putting everything into a liberals vs conservatives perspective is incredibly naieve. Im positive that both sides have their share of idiots.
You will see more people post in this thread who dont give a rats ass about your liberal vs conservative political crap. They just noticed that the article in WND doesnt make sense at all, unless you are incredibly hypocrite.
But I guess that only WND (whoever they are)gets to voice their opinion about others.
This is like a parent going bananas after buying their 10 year old son a copy of debbie does dallas and omg there is naked people and actual sex in this video.
Yes the parent did see the big XXX on the box but thought that's just for show to drive up sales there is no way it actually has naked people in it.
So because someone does not agree with you, they should be condemned?? ohh wait, forgot thats how liberals think, be tolerant of everyone that agrees with you and condemn the rest as being intolerant...
Sigh. To think we're living in the 21st c.
I love how your post relates to your handle.
I've yet to play the game, but I'm going to say people are just mad because bioware and them did it first lol ^_^ I love how people are paranoid about what their kids see/play/hear. If they're that worried they haven't taught their kids well, or else forget to put in the chip that allows them to control their kid's every move. Parents are just stupidly overly protective of their kids for some reason. My sister is the same, which is funny because she said she'd never do that. anyways I hope to see/hear more games about these types of things. The more choices you have the more appetizing it is. And really creates a TRUE RPG. which is why the Real D&D will NEVER stay dead.
On a side note in D&D I almost got my ass kicked by two turkeys >_>
WTF this game is rated M ! (M = no children pls)
I think you'd be surprised how many people change their opinions and even change themselves once they become a parent.
I alway find it interesting how many people say "when I'm a parent I won't do 'this' wont' allow them to do 'that' but they can certainly do 'all of this'".
Then they actually become a parent.
Either stop plugging Dragon age on MMO focused site , or change the name of the site
Either ignore articles* about Dragon Age, or visit another site.
* Theres been what, 2 articles about it? And one was a few weeks ago. Get off your high horse, stop demanding what this site does and get over it.
WHO CARES? It's a game you know how fast a kid or anyone else can find porn on the internet...
Either ignore articles* about Dragon Age, or visit another site.
* Theres been what, 2 articles about it? And one was a few weeks ago. Get off your high horse, stop demanding what this site does and get over it.
Lol I like Lobo hypocrisy...the big fat Torchlight graphic in his signature, Torchlight is not an mmo buddy...
Lol I like Lobo hypocrisy...the big fat Torchlight graphic in his signature, Torchlight is not an mmo buddy...
Haha I know! I actually pointed out that hypocrisy in my original draft of the post but I took it out. It went something like "Stop plugging Torchlight in your sig, it's not a MMO game".
Im glad BIOWARE made this game like this and did not hold back on pathetic narrow minded views of how we should play this game.
I dont see anything wrong in this game, its just a game nothing more.
Im an atheist but still play DAO even tho its very religion involved with this MAKER crap but its just a game and its after all a part of how we humans live on this planet same with SEX hetro gay whatever.
The pathetic part of this all is there more concerned about some tits, naked women/man then violence.
I wonder those who making a big fuss about this are prolly some creepy sex offenders themselfs.
Bring more SEX to game i say:P
Porn in video games? *sigh* what happened to the old fashion Tolkien type RPGs.
Now games have all this political correct nonsense with gay sex and what not. I mean seriously, if I want porn I download it. Why does a fantasy game have to have porn? Gay or otherwise.
Maybe people dont have anything against sex per se but rather think it is something private that you share with your significant other (or others if you are so inclined). Why do I have to see it in a video game?
It is not like porn is not readily available on the internet.
When I play a fantasy game I want to slay orcs/trolls/dragons and use magic. I dont want to watch some pseudo porn crap. I have ton of porn torrent sites that does that a million times better.
You consider two people rolling around in their undergarments porn?
You consider two people rolling around in their undergarments porn?
Two people rolling around having sex in a popular media (like movies or games) I consider porn yes. It is not hardcore porn but still porn.
Distinguish between sex between real adults (or violence for that matter) and fictional sex on a tv screen.
Two people rolling around having sex in a popular media (like movies or games) I consider porn yes. It is not hardcore porn but still porn.
Distinguish between sex between real adults (or violence for that matter) and fictional sex on a tv screen.
Because sex is not part of human society.
There is also the option of if you don't like it, don't play it.
Two people rolling around having sex in a popular media (like movies or games) I consider porn yes. It is not hardcore porn but still porn.
Distinguish between sex between real adults (or violence for that matter) and fictional sex on a tv screen.
Because sex is not part of human society.
There is also the option of if you don't like it, don't play it.
Sex is a major part of human society! Ever pick up a magazine? Hlaf naked women AND men.. Movies... TV.. The old saying "sex sells" Sex has been around seen the dawn of time.. and for Bible thumpers.. Adam & Eve... Good or bad in anyones view.. sex is a major part of society... maybe it's been stifled in the U.S. but in Europe, sex is an even bigger cash cow.
Because sex is not part of human society.
There is also the option of if you don't like it, don't play it.
Sex is a major part of human society! Ever pick up a magazine? Hlaf naked women AND men.. Movies... TV.. The old saying "sex sells" Sex has been around seen the dawn of time.. and for Bible thumpers.. Adam & Eve... Good or bad in anyones view.. sex is a major part of society... maybe it's been stifled in the U.S. but in Europe, sex is an even bigger cash cow.
I was being sarcastic : )
Sex can either be ignored or accepted. I'll continue to accept it, who am I to deny pleasure?
Really? No nudity, but full body contact = porn?! Sorry, but your definition is lacking a whole lot of grey areas. If rolling around while scantily clad = porn, then you may as well say that wrestling matches should no longer be televised because they promote a "homosexual agenda" and are "pornographic".
And that does seem more than a little silly.
Most people can distinguish between real sex and fictional sex (on TV, in movies, in books or in games) without leaping to calling everything porn.
Are you afraid that the pixels might corrupt you???
Bioware should really keep doing what they're doing, they make the smartest, deepest and most morally complex RPGs around.
As long as they keep pushing buttons, unafraid of reactionary impulses, they'll be kings of the RPG genre for a long time to come - and I can't wait to see what choices and complexities are laid out by them in SW:TOR.
sensationalist media...sometimes i hate it but other times it's so stupid and sad that it gives me a chuckle.
Maybe people dont have anything against sex per se but rather think it is something private that you share with your significant other (or others if you are so inclined). Why do I have to see it in a video game?
It is not like porn is not readily available on the internet.
When I play a fantasy game I want to slay orcs/trolls/dragons and use magic. I dont want to watch some pseudo porn crap. I have ton of porn torrent sites that does that a million times better.
So if you want to avoid the gay sex, hookers, porn and fighting the beast with 2 backs just stick to killing trolls, orcs and dragons?
The game content is silly at worst and a great waste of time a best, one that is not forcing you to engage in any of the "pornographic acts" you are decrying.
With some mods for BG2 were you could romance both female and male it would be stupid if Bioware didn't realised that we are in 21st. I thinking BG2 player base gave them a hint that we don't mind or even care if there's gay romance/sex in a game...after all is just a game.
Damnit, why did I read all of this. Now I have a headache from my brain trying to push its way out of my skull because it, "has to escape this fucking backwater, hillbilly country."
Thanks.
Guess I'll just go have some dirty gay sex in DA:O to calm my nerves.
It doesn't take much at all to press World"News"Dailies buttons... They tend to start on the far right and keep going until they fall off the edge. ^^ I suspect at least part of Biowares motivation for this was the free publicity to be had when the Usual Suspects blew a gasket over it. What passes for Neo Con "thought" processes is rather easy to predict, so their response was only to be expected. The entire thing is a tempest in a tea pot, we have MUCH larger things to concern ourselves with.
Because sex is not part of human society.
There is also the option of if you don't like it, don't play it.
Sex is a major part of human society! Ever pick up a magazine? Hlaf naked women AND men.. Movies... TV.. The old saying "sex sells" Sex has been around seen the dawn of time.. and for Bible thumpers.. Adam & Eve... Good or bad in anyones view.. sex is a major part of society... maybe it's been stifled in the U.S. but in Europe, sex is an even bigger cash cow.
edit: I didnt quote this part for some reason: "I was being sarcastic : )
Sex can either be ignored or accepted. I'll continue to accept it, who am I to deny pleasure?"
Heh, ya know, I thought so.. but in my defense I woke up 10 minutes before I posted that :)
Because sex is not part of human society.
There is also the option of if you don't like it, don't play it.
Sex is a major part of human society! Ever pick up a magazine? Hlaf naked women AND men.. Movies... TV.. The old saying "sex sells" Sex has been around seen the dawn of time.. and for Bible thumpers.. Adam & Eve... Good or bad in anyones view.. sex is a major part of society... maybe it's been stifled in the U.S. but in Europe, sex is an even bigger cash cow.
I was being sarcastic : )
Sex can either be ignored or accepted. I'll continue to accept it, who am I to deny pleasure?
Well seeing as you are incapable of distinguishing between sex and sex in popular media then whats the point in discussing this?
If you feel sex is "part of human society" then please go ahead, make a movie of you and your gf having sex and release it to the public.
Its simply the typical puritan mentality. Its a hold over from centuries of repression of basic human drives in order to control the masses. The irrational aspects tend to confuse, unless one understands their background. Killing is only murder if its not sanctioned by the state.
Really? No nudity, but full body contact = porn?! Sorry, but your definition is lacking a whole lot of grey areas. If rolling around while scantily clad = porn, then you may as well say that wrestling matches should no longer be televised because they promote a "homosexual agenda" and are "pornographic".
And that does seem more than a little silly.
Most people can distinguish between real sex and fictional sex (on TV, in movies, in books or in games) without leaping to calling everything porn.
Are you afraid that the pixels might corrupt you???
Bioware should really keep doing what they're doing, they make the smartest, deepest and most morally complex RPGs around.
As long as they keep pushing buttons, unafraid of reactionary impulses, they'll be kings of the RPG genre for ng time to come - and I can't wait to see what choices and complexities are laid out by them in SW:TOR.
Please look up the definition of porn in any major dictionary and you will see that any sexual depiction with the intent to raise sexual arrousal is considered as porn.
Now one could claim that showing two, scantly cled, and attractive young females rolling around will not raise sexual arousal on most people. But both you and me know that is bullshit.
Sex SELLS and that is why popular media is more and more using it but it is in fact porn and nothing else.
Sex is a major part of human society! Ever pick up a magazine? Hlaf naked women AND men.. Movies... TV.. The old saying "sex sells" Sex has been around seen the dawn of time.. and for Bible thumpers.. Adam & Eve... Good or bad in anyones view.. sex is a major part of society... maybe it's been stifled in the U.S. but in Europe, sex is an even bigger cash cow.
I was being sarcastic : )
Sex can either be ignored or accepted. I'll continue to accept it, who am I to deny pleasure?
Well seeing as you are incapable of distinguishing between sex and sex in popular media then whats the point in discussing this?
If you feel sex is "part of human society" then please go ahead, make a movie of you and your gf having sex and release it to the public.
Why bother? There are already thousands upon thousands of those out and about on the internet. <shrug>
Sex is a major part of human society! Ever pick up a magazine? Hlaf naked women AND men.. Movies... TV.. The old saying "sex sells" Sex has been around seen the dawn of time.. and for Bible thumpers.. Adam & Eve... Good or bad in anyones view.. sex is a major part of society... maybe it's been stifled in the U.S. but in Europe, sex is an even bigger cash cow.
I was being sarcastic : )
Sex can either be ignored or accepted. I'll continue to accept it, who am I to deny pleasure?
Well seeing as you are incapable of distinguishing between sex and sex in popular media then whats the point in discussing this?
If you feel sex is "part of human society" then please go ahead, make a movie of you and your gf having sex and release it to the public.
There really is no difference between seeing a naked woman, and seeing a half naked woman and your mind immediately seeing her naked.. or a half naked couple embracing provocatively in a magazine/tv ad and your mind going the next step. There may be a distinction .. but it is a fine line.. Besides many have 'taped their gf having sex and released it to the public'. Ever hear of the internet?
Sex is a major part of human society! Ever pick up a magazine? Hlaf naked women AND men.. Movies... TV.. The old saying "sex sells" Sex has been around seen the dawn of time.. and for Bible thumpers.. Adam & Eve... Good or bad in anyones view.. sex is a major part of society... maybe it's been stifled in the U.S. but in Europe, sex is an even bigger cash cow.
I was being sarcastic : )
Sex can either be ignored or accepted. I'll continue to accept it, who am I to deny pleasure?
Well seeing as you are incapable of distinguishing between sex and sex in popular media then whats the point in discussing this?
If you feel sex is "part of human society" then please go ahead, make a movie of you and your gf having sex and release it to the public.
Why bother? There are already thousands upon thousands of those out and about on the internet. <shrug>
Yeah, and that is porn, not sex.
Sex is, often, a private affair between two consenting adults. Not between two consenting adults and a million watching it, that is porn.
Sex is a major part of human society! Ever pick up a magazine? Hlaf naked women AND men.. Movies... TV.. The old saying "sex sells" Sex has been around seen the dawn of time.. and for Bible thumpers.. Adam & Eve... Good or bad in anyones view.. sex is a major part of society... maybe it's been stifled in the U.S. but in Europe, sex is an even bigger cash cow.
I was being sarcastic : )
Sex can either be ignored or accepted. I'll continue to accept it, who am I to deny pleasure?
Well seeing as you are incapable of distinguishing between sex and sex in popular media then whats the point in discussing this?
If you feel sex is "part of human society" then please go ahead, make a movie of you and your gf having sex and release it to the public.
There really is no difference between seeing a naked woman, and seeing a half naked woman and your mind immediately seeing her naked.. or a half naked couple embracing provocatively in a magazine/tv ad and your mind going the next step. There may be a distinction .. but it is a fine line.. Besides many have 'taped their gf having sex and released it to the public'. Ever hear of the internet?
*sigh*
Did I say that it did not exist? No.
What I was saying is that sex is something private, porn is something public.
I wasn't even talking about the game at that point, I was talking about discussing sex. I was not even talking about you either, touchy much?
Here's the thing. Sex being depicted shouldn't be a problem, biggest reason is you have the option to avoid it. People that don't want to see it, have the option to ignore it completely. You chose to make a deal out of it, which makes you no different then the writer. If you don't like sex in games, go play a game without it. People that do, will. Accept and move on.
As for the sex tape you suggested. Only if I can sell it at 18$ a dvd.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
I was being sarcastic : )
Sex can either be ignored or accepted. I'll continue to accept it, who am I to deny pleasure?
Well seeing as you are incapable of distinguishing between sex and sex in popular media then whats the point in discussing this?
If you feel sex is "part of human society" then please go ahead, make a movie of you and your gf having sex and release it to the public.
Why bother? There are already thousands upon thousands of those out and about on the internet. <shrug>
Yeah, and that is porn, not sex.
Sex is, often, a private affair between two consenting adults. Not between two consenting adults and a million watching it, that is porn.
You are confusing 'making love' with sex... porn is sex.. filmed, taken pictures or if you will any visual sexuial acts without artistic merit. Sex is any sexual act porn or otherwise.
Porn is sex videotaped.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
Pretty sure the poster meant in the media. Games, movies, cartoons, etc.
I wasn't even talking about the game at that point, I was talking about discussing sex. I was not even talking about you either, touchy much?
Here's the thing. Sex being depicted shouldn't be a problem, biggest reason is you have the option to avoid it. People that don't want to see it, have the option to ignore it completely. You chose to make a deal out of it, which makes you no different then the writer. If you don't like sex in games, go play a game without it. People that do, will. Accept and move on.
As for the sex tape you suggested. Only if I can sell it at 18$ a dvd.
Obviously I can choose to not play it, or not play computer games at all, or go live in a cave and not speak to anyone... but that is not the point.
The point is that if I play a fantasy game I dont expect to find porn in it. In particular I dont expect the game to give me rewards in engaging in it. Why? Because I play games not for seeing porn but to play games.
When I want to watch porn, I watch porn. I dont see any point in mixing it with fantasy RPG.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
Pretty sure the poster meant in the media. Games, movies, cartoons, etc.
yeah he was, apparently Yamota just wanted to make an ass of himself.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
It makes perfect sense. In this society it goes largely unnoticed if you are playing a game where you are killing countless pixel people, but mess around and let someone have a pair of same sex pixels bumping uglies and every puritan comes out of the woodwork in a rage.
I was being sarcastic : )
Sex can either be ignored or accepted. I'll continue to accept it, who am I to deny pleasure?
Well seeing as you are incapable of distinguishing between sex and sex in popular media then whats the point in discussing this?
If you feel sex is "part of human society" then please go ahead, make a movie of you and your gf having sex and release it to the public.
There really is no difference between seeing a naked woman, and seeing a half naked woman and your mind immediately seeing her naked.. or a half naked couple embracing provocatively in a magazine/tv ad and your mind going the next step. There may be a distinction .. but it is a fine line.. Besides many have 'taped their gf having sex and released it to the public'. Ever hear of the internet?
*sigh*
Did I say that it did not exist? No.
What I was saying is that sex is something private, porn is something public.
Maybe you didnt. However you are the one who implied you do not believe that sex is 'part of human society' by challenging those that do to make a film of their gf's having sex. so *sigh* away.
What is this world coming too?
Seriously.... I mean SERIOUSLY!!! If people find it offensive or whatever stop buying 18+/M rated games for your 10yo.
Parents are to blame here for starters. Getting all offended by the homo romances..... I'll say it again SERIOUSLY. They are only brought on if YOU the player actually flirt back and your just in denial that your son/daughter initiated it in the first place.
Then don't play them, majority of games have no porn in them. You want to have a perfect black & white world, uniformed everything to meet your requests. You really should wake up and open your eyes instead of living in your own fantasies.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
Pretty sure the poster meant in the media. Games, movies, cartoons, etc.
Then he should say fictional sex and fictional murder.
That seems to be a different that alot of people in this thread are not doing. In RL a person is alot more enclined to engage into sex than to murder someone, so obviously media depicting sex is more concerning to parents than media depicting violence, particulary murder. Since it is very unlikely, and more unusual, that people kill someone than having sex with someone so most parent need not worry about that.
Oh really, you're changing your definition now?
So your response to my earlier argument is now moot. The cutscene in DA:O does not contain "sex videotaped", nor is it graphic, or intended to cause arousal (if it did, the person aroused by it needs help).
Therefore, from your own responses, and contradicting yourself merrily as you go: it is not porn.
Ok, let me explain this again, for your understanding.
Game A has sexual content, game B does not. Game A is aimed at a crowd that is fine with sexual encounters, game B is not.
You choose to sit here and bitch about A not being like B because you believe sex shouldn't be in video games. I don't care why YOU play games. I don't play games for the sex either. BioWare did build a deep story around the romance lines, the Morrigan ending was pretty crazy. But you wouldn't know would you?
I still dont understand how this article managed to get us.. those who dont really even care, and know the difference between what is acceptable to us in a _game_ for god's sake. Have us argueing, or rather debating amongst ourselves the difference between porn and sex in media...
Ugh, guess its 1 point for the right wing ultra conservatives... I cant feed em anymore.
Then don't play them, majority of games have no porn in them. You want to have a perfect black & white world, uniformed everything to meet your requests. You really should wake up by now.
I am not playing that game but so what? I thought this was the news discussion on MMORPG.COM and not Dragons Age Origins forum.
And it has nothing to do with black and white but rather that I want to keep things seperated. When I eat burger I want to eat a burger and not a mix of burger and pizza. That is for me personally.
For parents I can imagine people not wanting to subject their children to such things. You may want to, heck show a hardcore porn movie for your kids if you want, but others might not want to.
You've got it really mixed up in your head.
Social conservatism & liberalism has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with economical conservatism & liberalism.
In fact, most of the political parties in the world that are right wing are social liberals. It is left-wing democratic socialists who actually WANT TO IMPOSE as many social rules and policies as possible.
This is all business...Controversy sells and Bioware knows this.
They stumbled over this with their mass effect game with the female blue alien + female played human sex scene and got a tiny bit of a media buzz over it (in a good way). I guarantee you this fueled them to force the concept of sex into this game more heavily especially the idea of gay sex... since it worked for them in the last game.
A game company only has to look as far as Rockstar games to see how sex, gay or straight, gets you tons of negative press that ultimately turns into HUGE money! I mean HUGE money!!! The old adage is true... all press is good press.
Since games sell to predominantly young audiences they are more apt to buck the status qou set by the overly liberal media and become motivated buyers. If games catered to elderly the opposite would likely be true.
You have to 1st know your audience to take big risks. Props to Bioware for knowing how to make money and having the nerve to take risks to push the envelope.
Whether people view this as morally good or bad... this is a business for them and there are plenty of other businesses willing to be a whole lot more unscrupulous to earn money. In the grander scheme of things this is minor. All they really did was buck the status quo.
Oh really, you're changing your definition now?
So your response to my earlier argument is now moot. The cutscene in DA:O does not contain "sex videotaped", nor is it graphic, or intended to cause arousal (if it did, the person aroused by it needs help).
Therefore, from your own responses, and contradicting yourself merrily as you go: it is not porn.
Se now you've managed to confuse me... Maybe it's because I'm tired or perhaps we are argueing the same point in the long run I dont know. My statement was in response the statement by Yamato of "Because sex is not part of human society." .. which he replied to me that he was joking.. and somehow steamrolled into this... so I'm confused... which granted is easy.... but..
Sex is everywhere.. call it porn call it sex, call it love making... I dont care if its implied or not.. and I dont care that it exists, it doesnt bother me. Uhm, what were we talking about... Forget it.. I'm getting more coffee.
Ok, let me explain this again, for your understanding.
Game A has sexual content, game B does not. Game A is aimed at a crowd that is fine with sexual encounters, game B is not.
You choose to sit here and bitch about A not being like B because you believe sex shouldn't be in video games. I don't care why YOU play games. I don't play games for the sex either. BioWare did build a deep story around the romance lines, the Morrigan ending was pretty crazy. But you wouldn't know would you?
I am not bitching any more than you are bitching about it. Its called expressing ones opinion, you know a right people in most free countries enjoy.
But anyhow, you say you dont play games for the sex yet you are so adamant about it being in there. Ok whatever.
And now romance equals sex as well? Damn, you have a pretty skewed view on what sex is.
You've got it really mixed up in your head.
Social conservatism & liberalism has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with economical conservatism & liberalism.
In fact, most of the political parties in the world that are right wing are social liberals. It is left-wing democratic socialists who actually WANT TO IMPOSE as many social rules and policies as possible.
Really? So all these right wing republican's in the U.S who are anti-gay and dont want to 'god forbid!' teach the youth how to use a condom.. arent trying to impose thier social rules AND religious views on the public? What the hell ever happened to separation of church and state.
This is like debating that television is for kids only and therefore should not show anything beyond cartoons. Just because this is a game, does not make it a children material. In this case, this particular game was meant to be played by adults.
Se now you've managed to confuse me... Maybe it's because I'm tired or perhaps we are argueing the same point in the long run I dont know. My statement was in response the statement by Yamato of "Because sex is not part of human society." .. which he replied to me that he was joking.. and somehow steamrolled into this... so I'm confused... which granted is easy.... but..
Sex is everywhere.. call it porn call it sex, call it love making... I dont care if its implied or not.. and I dont care that it exists, it doesnt bother me. Uhm, what were we talking about... Forget it.. I'm getting more coffee.
When you have sexual intercourse, with whoever, do you consider yourself making porn?
Because the distinction is quite easy. Porn is depicting sex with the intent to raise sexual arrousal where as sex is just engaging in sexual intercourse.
You dont even have to depict a full sexual intercourse for it being porn. All that matters is the intent to raise sexual arrousal and if the creators of this game, and whoever else, thinks that depicting two, young sexually attractive females, rolling around in the ground kissing each other, will NOT cause sexual arrousal on most young males, you are seriously deluded.
I am not playing that game but so what? I thought this was the news discussion on MMORPG.COM and not Dragons Age Origins forum.
And it has nothing to do with black and white but rather that I want to keep things seperated. When I eat burger I want to eat a burger and not a mix of burger and pizza. That is for me personally.
For parents I can imagine people not wanting to subject their children to such things. You may want to, heck show a hardcore porn movie for your kids if you want, but others might not want to.
Honestly, if I'd be a parent I would never let my teenage kids play a game rated M 18+.
It has everything to do with black & white view. You want to eat burger and not a mix of burger and pizza, which is a ridiculous analogy. Why don't you then eat just a meat if you want meat and a bread if you want a bread. Burger is already a mix of meat, bread, ketchup whatever... You just cut the stage you liked the most.
The writer picked the gay sex out of everything the game contained. I found it a horribly sad move. What about the prostitution? Hell you can literally screw a demon in DA:O. I just found it distasteful, not to mention how they referred to it.
I DON'T play games for the sex, however if it is there I don't have a problem with it. I can deal with sexual material. It's not a problem to me, even if It was, I would acknowledge the sex scene or the romance line was skipable
Actually in DA:O it is a romance quest line, this is what I was referring to. Romance lines are in both DA:O and ME. You wouldn't know because you probably never played either one. I'm sorry you are ignorant on the subject.
Please don't drag this tired excuse into the fray. If I as a parent am too lazy to know what games my kids are playing then I have no right to complain that Jr might encounter a pixel labia somewhere in the midst of a video game.
Really? So all these right wing republican's in the U.S who are anti-gay and dont want to 'god forbid!' teach the youth how to use a condom.. arent trying to impose thier social rules AND religious views on the public? What the hell ever happened to separation of church and state.
I don't F. care how it is in USA, it's not an ultimate rule that applies to every other country.
In fact, almost every country in Europe - liberal parties are usually those that impose the most restrictions. Our Slovakian liberal social democratic government just MADE a F. law that every child in high school will need to sing our anthem every day in the morning when the teacher comes in. Opposition here, is right wing party that actually wants to allow homosexuals to have a marriage. I can give you examples like that almost in every country in Europe. As I said, social liberalism & conservativism has nothing to do whether it's a right wing or left wing party.
What I find about as funny as it is pathetic is corporate greed trying to milk dry its playerbase by sad attempts to boost their sales.
People play RPG's for the game, not to have sex and nudity. But just because Oblivious/Fallout3 nude patches are the most downloaded content on Fileplanet doesn't mean developers should stoop down to such a pathetic level that they feel they have to stick in as much shocking filler as possible.
It's pathetic, because instead of making the game more fun as a RPG, they WASTED all this time adding in this senseless crap. For every extra drop of blood and naked boob, that's another feature gone from the actual gameplay.
And I'm sorry if I want my RPG's to focus on being a good RPG and not being a mix between RPG and Pornography/Gore.
I watch pornography to watch pornography. I watch scary movies to see gore. I play RPG's to play RPG's.
I don't want them mixed, because then they become dilluted and lose focus on what really matters. If corporations put in half the effort and money it took to advertise half-naked women, prostitutes, drugs, and needless gore- we would have more MMORPG's like WoW and less like [insert recent failure MMO].
Focus. Focus. Focus. If I want sex, I'll go have sex. If I want to see naked women, I will go see content 10000x better than pixelated boobs. I want to slay a dragon in Dragon Age, not have lesbian pixel sex. If I want both, I'll look at boobs and afterwards slay a dragon, using two different games/websites.
That's why I find it pathetic and stupid. That's why I'm against this sort of filth. Keep my games clean (focused on GAMEPLAY) and keep my sex filthy. Don't try to make the former dirty or the latter cleaner.
Please don't drag this tired excuse into the fray. If I as a parent am too lazy to know what games my kids are playing then I have no right to complain that Jr might encounter a pixel labia somewhere in the midst of a video game.
It's funny how many parents don't stop their children from watching violence from an early age, but raise hell if a nipple is shown. Society has some messed up priorities.
What I find about as funny as it is pathetic is corporate greed trying to milk dry its playerbase by sad attempts to boost their sales.
People play RPG's for the game, not to have sex and nudity. But just because Oblivious/Fallout3 nude patches are the most downloaded content on Fileplanet doesn't mean developers should stoop down to such a pathetic level that they feel they have to stick in as much shocking filler as possible.
It's pathetic, because instead of making the game more fun as a RPG, they WASTED all this time adding in this senseless crap. For every extra drop of blood and naked boob, that's another feature gone from the actual gameplay.
And I'm sorry if I want my RPG's to focus on being a good RPG and not being a mix between RPG and Pornography/Gore.
I watch pornography to watch pornography. I watch scary movies to see gore. I play RPG's to play RPG's.
I don't want them mixed, because then they become dilluted and lose focus on what really matters. If corporations put in half the effort and money it took to advertise half-naked women, prostitutes, drugs, and needless gore- we would have more MMORPG's like WoW and less like [insert recent failure MMO].
Focus. Focus. Focus. If I want sex, I'll go have sex. If I want to see naked women, I will go see content 10000x better than pixelated boobs. I want to slay a dragon in Dragon Age, not have lesbian pixel sex. If I want both, I'll look at boobs and afterwards slay a dragon, using two different games/websites.
That's why I find it pathetic and stupid. That's why I'm against this sort of filth. Keep my games clean (focused on GAMEPLAY) and keep my sex filthy. Don't try to make the former dirty or the latter cleaner.
It's not shock filler. It's not even shocking. If you can't handle it find another game. The game was called a "Dark Fantasy" which then went on to carry a M rating telling you what the game had. Every game does this. If you was shocked it's because you're a damned idiot.
EDIT: nevermind you're just another guy that didn't play the game. DA:O was about 30 min worth of Romance lines. While it had over 160h of actual RPG. And not one tit was shown. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.
I play DA:O and enjoy it greatly. I am looking at the cover right now and right there on the front is a black "M" for mature. As I am an adult ( 36) I actually look for this rating for two reasons: my young children ( to keep away from them) and for myself ( to see if I am interested in playing it). I don't buy video games for the "sex scenes" (implied or not), sex is not new in any industry, it sells in almost any application anywhere. "Sex scenes" are usually (and hopefully) just one small aspect of a good mature game. So the bottom line is: Parent your kids, it's your job, and surprise! once again sex in the entertainment industry sells a lot and fast!
Really? So all these right wing republican's in the U.S who are anti-gay and dont want to 'god forbid!' teach the youth how to use a condom.. arent trying to impose thier social rules AND religious views on the public? What the hell ever happened to separation of church and state.
Right Wing republicans aren't religious at all. They aren't trying to impose their social rules or religious views on the pubilc.
Right wing republicans care about only one thing: Their corporate masters.
By pretending to care about these things, and by pretending to go against them, they gain the vote of the South. The south is no more religious than the rest of the nation, they just have more churches. Because it's not about religion in the south, it's about culture. People dont' care about their religion, they care about their roots, their culture, their beliefs.
It's all pretend manipulation. The republicans have had full control of the government before, but never did anything about abortion. Yet they constantly parade to be anti-abortion. Well, they are, and they DO vote against abortion law. But that's irrelevant because abortion was settled bigtime in Roe vs Wade. They have never done anything to overturn Roe vs Wade, the pillar of abortion law. Why? Because that would be stupid! If they fix abortion by destroying Roe vs Wade and overturning it to give their constituents what they want, they will LOSE ALL THOSE VOTES! because without abortion as a hot topic, all the christian right votes will start to split. By never doing ANYTHING to actually be anti-abortion other than insignificant things to save face, they retain all those votes because the south is so ignorant they don't realize the republicans actually DONT care and actually ARENT anti-abortion. They also fail to realize that the democrats, who help the poor, stop more abortion than the republicans EVER have. The #1 reason for abortions are the lack of money. Help the poor financially, and you stop a multitude of abortions. The republicans haven't stopped any, they just pretend to.
That is just ONE example of many that republicans do to manipulate the ignorant to retain votes. It's NOT a coincidence that the vast majority of republicans are rather rich or live in high poverty (ignorant) southern regions. This isn't saying that republicans are ignorant, but that they have been manipulated and because of their past and present ignorance they fail to realize they're voting for the wrong party. It only takes ONE generation of ignorant people to instill in their future generations a stern republican idealogy to always vote conservative. Afterall, people tend to vote exactly as their parents did.
And the South is ignorant. So Corporations buy out the Republican party, which in turn misinforms the South manipulating their culture to convince them of whatever they want to keep them from voting how they'd want to vote (democrat) and thus retain power, thus retaining money (corporate payment).
It has NOTHING to do with religion or social rules. It's all based on social manipulation to insure votes, which insure corporate payouts.
Angelof, you really need to stop watching Alex Jones. He's amusing at best and his theory - holywood is controlled by arabs" is on the edge of insanity.
Now Social Scientists do not care for condoms begin taught in school. It has proven in studies to be an ineffective means to teach birth control. In areas where free condoms and condom education have been taught there has been large increases in teen pregnancy over areas where it is not. This line of education as a means of teen birth control is ineffective. That is one reason new programs for condoms in schools have been difficult to get.
I have no idea who that is.
My opinions and facts are just that, opinions or facts.
My opinion is that video games should be kept "clean" so the developers FOCUS on making the GAMEPLAY better, instead of wasting time coding and adding in sexual or violent graphics. If the game is Left4Dead, a zombie game based on the horror genre than DO focus on gore. That's part of the theme.
But focus on slaying dragons in a dragon slaying rpg. Don't add in sex and nudity. We can get that in higher quality for free anywhere else. It's my opinion that for every wasted naked pixel and sexual program code, that's one less quest, one less monster, one less feature.
And the facts? Republicans are bought out by their corporate masters, and the majority of their votes are based on manipulation of the ignorant south. It's NOT a coincidence that the South is the primary source of republican power.
It doesn't take a sociologist to see that by giving kids condoms, you're ENCOURAGING sex, which will increase sexual encounters, which will increase the problem.
It also doesn't take a sociologist to see that when there is a problem, ignoring it or telling kids to stop (abstinence programs) won't work either.
Since when did "Don't do it, it's stupid and you might die!!!" EVER stop a teenager? LoL...
I honestly don't know the solution, but disease control and teen pregnancy is always a problem, and a big one at that. If we don't do something to lower the rates, then our future generation will be emotionally disturbed morons (teen parents are less adequate in every way to raise a child) and our present generation will be dead by AIDS, lol.
That's taking it to the extreme, but if anyone wants to know WHY people are so messed up, they need only look at the person's parents, which have a high chance that they were uneducated and incapable of providing for their children healthy parenting and sufficient funding. Often because they themselves had so many problems, bc THEIR parents treated them like crap. It almost always ends up starting with a bad parent who was bad because they lacked proper education. Education prevents stupid decisions, abusive mentality (drugs, physical punishment, hatred) and everyone knows a more educated parent means a better parent.
As Freud might say, "So... tell me about your mother..."
I have no idea who that is.
My opinions and facts are just that, opinions or facts.
My opinion is that video games should be kept "clean" so the developers FOCUS on making the GAMEPLAY better, instead of wasting time coding and adding in sexual or violent graphics. If the game is Left4Dead, a zombie game based on the horror genre than DO focus on gore. That's part of the theme.
But focus on slaying dragons in a dragon slaying rpg. Don't add in sex and nudity. We can get that in higher quality for free anywhere else. It's my opinion that for every wasted naked pixel and sexual program code, that's one less quest, one less monster, one less feature.
And the facts? Republicans are bought out by their corporate masters, and the majority of their votes are based on manipulation of the ignorant south. It's NOT a coincidence that the South is the primary source of republican power.
This is a jabber sorry to say. We all know democracy and politics are about being the biggest populist and having the best team of social manipulators. Not just republicans or liberals, or communists or whoever.
Anyway
RPG's were at first just a simple dungeons where you leveled up and killed monsters in a dungeon.
It's a natural progression what the market is asking.
In cinema, you probably not bitch on new James Bond movie because there's sex scenes eventho you wanted to see an action. Barriers between genres are being torn down.
What a crock of bullshit. It is just plain wrong.
I have no idea who that is.
My opinions and facts are just that, opinions or facts.
My opinion is that video games should be kept "clean" so the developers FOCUS on making the GAMEPLAY better, instead of wasting time coding and adding in sexual or violent graphics. If the game is Left4Dead, a zombie game based on the horror genre than DO focus on gore. That's part of the theme.
But focus on slaying dragons in a dragon slaying rpg. Don't add in sex and nudity. We can get that in higher quality for free anywhere else. It's my opinion that for every wasted naked pixel and sexual program code, that's one less quest, one less monster, one less feature.
And the facts? Republicans are bought out by their corporate masters, and the majority of their votes are based on manipulation of the ignorant south. It's NOT a coincidence that the South is the primary source of republican power.
You complained about it focusing on gore. Do you think a sharpened sword wont cause the spill and spray of blood?
There was also NO nudity, nothing but spooning. Romance lines are also a feature, quest and always directed you torwards slaying somebody for your chosen romance partner. So what did BioWare miss out on?
This is a jabber sorry to say. We all know democracy and politics are about being the biggest populist and having the best team of social manipulators. Not just republicans or liberals, or communists or whoever.
Anyway
RPG's were at first just a simple dungeons where you leveled up and killed monsters in a dungeon.
It's a natural progression what the market is asking.
In cinema, you probably not bitch on new James Bond movie because there's sex scenes eventho you wanted to see an action. Barriers between genres are being torn down.
People don't want to see pornography and sex scenes in their content as much as they want to see [insert theme of content].
The argument isn't that people don't want sex in their stuff. The argument is that people are so stupid and driven by their barbaric instincts instead of their rational brains, that they fail to realize that by urging "OMG PLZ LET ME RAPES HER!!!!" they're losing one more quest.
If someone asks for CONTENT X in a CONTENT A game, then they'll get it because they're stupid enough to fail to relalize for every X, you lose an A.
Eventually there is a breaking point where CONTENT becomes so filled with X that people begin to realize how much A they lost. That's when the CONTENT gets saved and you see a lot if not ALL content X disappear to make room for tons of quality content A.
Keep the genre pure, and people can always get what they want. I'm not saying don't make sexy characters in video games. (That's another argument entirely). I'm saying don't add in needless content that is poor compared to other genres (If you want sex, go look at pornography. It'll be 1000x better than Dragon Age sex scenes) that it TAKES AWAY from the REAL content of slaying dragons.
There is a limit to the amount of content a game can produce, often based by the variables of TIME and MONEY.
If you think "breaking down genre walls" and merging together games to include EVERYTHING, you'll only end up with a really shitty video game that can't do ANYTHING right because the focus is so spread out.
It's a very simple explanation. What I am trying to say is this:
I.E. for every amount of QUANTITY you add,
you lose that much QUALITY.
Yes very true. I live in Sweden, which has the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe, and at the same time boast about how good their sexual education is and how you at an early age are shown how to use a condom.
Clearly sexual education is not a way to stop teenagers from engaging in unprotected sex. If nothing it encourages people to have more sex, which may or may not be protected.
Depicting sex in any media encourages people to have sex. Why? Because it causes sexual arrousal and if you are sexually arroused then you, shockingly, want to have sex.
That is why parents are more worried about sex in media than violence. Most, normal, people do not engage in violent acts but most, normal, people do have sex.
Yes very true. I live in Sweden, which has the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe, and at the same time boast about how good their sexual education is and how you at an early age are shown how to use a condom.
Clearly sexual education is not a way to stop teenagers from engaging in unprotected sex. If nothing it encourages people to have more sex, which may or may not be protected.
Depicting sex in any media encourages people to have sex. Why? Because it causes sexual arrousal and if you are sexually arroused then you, shockingly, want to have sex.
That is why parents are more worried about sex in media than violence. Most, normal, people do not engage in violent acts but most, normal, people do have sex.
Today a brilliant light must have hit MMORPG.com forums, because over and over I'm seeing tons of well-written, logical, reasonable posts which argue using logic/reason instead of "OMGZ STFU NEWBZ0RZ!!!11111 YOU WATCH TOO MUCH CNN!!!!!!1111"
What a crock of bullshit. It is just plain wrong.
It is not. Sweden is a perfect example of a society that has a very developed sex education system yet has the highest rate of teen abortions in Europe.
Sex education encourages people to have sex, period. That it is safe sex it encourages, obviously, does not seem to matter.
What a crock of bullshit. It is just plain wrong.
Three random internet articles prove nothing.
You can find any article to support what you want to say, regardless of what you're saying.
The fact and reality remain, it is not a crock of BS at all. If you want to argue, you will need to provide better sources.
Reality of Sweden (Real Life Events) > Random Internet Article spouting unfounded or biased claims.
Three random internet articles prove nothing.
You can find any article to support what you want to say, regardless of what you're saying.
The fact and reality remain, it is not a crock of BS at all. If you want to argue, you will need to provide better sources.
Reality of Sweden (Real Life Events) > Random Internet Article spouting unfounded or biased claims.
Three credible sources vs no sources?Guess source evaluation is not your strong part.
And Sweden has a very low teenage pregnancy rate, about 1/3 of the UK and 1/5 of the US. At least make an effort to find stats before spewing nonsensical garbage.
The game also creates a little controversy about the prostitution, the oldest profession in the world, some say
... summarizing the game really has sexual content and hurt some conservative sensibilities.
But the truth, like any product, even in sexshops , just buy who wanna. In my country and mostly of others, the game is labeled for +18 years old, so warns that have content
that should only be manuzes by personnel vaccinated about that .
I think that the aim of pornography is to arouse you. Yet that was obviously not the aim of the dragon age developers when they implemented that scene. They want to tell a story, and they thought that if a bunch of mostly young and healthy adventurers spend the nights together, that most likely some of the might have sex. And then they tell that story in the game. And since you are an adult when you play that game, you have probably seen your share of naked bodies already in real life.
The scenes of the game are humorous and entertaining. Read the last word? Entertaining. Entertainment is what I'd buy a computer game for.
People should spend their energy in more useful ways than complain about some characters kissing and hugging in an 18+ video game.
Three random internet articles prove nothing.
You can find any article to support what you want to say, regardless of what you're saying.
The fact and reality remain, it is not a crock of BS at all. If you want to argue, you will need to provide better sources.
Reality of Sweden (Real Life Events) > Random Internet Article spouting unfounded or biased claims.
Three credible sources vs no sources?Guess source evaluation is not your strong part.
And Sweden has a very low teenage pregnancy rate, about 1/3 of the UK and 1/5 of the US. At least make an effort to find stats before spewing nonsensical garbage.
That article is from 2002 and I misstakedly said teenage pregnancy, it is teenage abortion rate and not pregnancy rate. Abortion is much more related to unwanted pregnancy (duh) than just pregnancy (which could be intentional).
And I live in Sweden. I have grown up in their system, gone through their education system, been directly involved in how sex and teenagers works and watched their own national news agency say that during 2007 Sweden had the highest rate of teenage abortions in Europe.
I will try and dig up an article which that news was based one.
It is not. Sweden is a perfect example of a society that has a very developed sex education system yet has the highest rate of teen abortions in Europe.
Sex education encourages people to have sex, period. That it is safe sex it encourages, obviously, does not seem to matter.
This is probably because since it encourages teens to have sex, they will have more sex (of course). And since condoms require you to
1) Have one
2) Use it
it fails BECAUSE the teens are having CONSISTENT sex, and thus will, as all teens do, make an incredibly idiotic assumption that they are invincible/immune "It won't happen to me!" and so when they encounter a situation where they want to have sex (as usual) but don't possess or desire a condom, they will do it anyway.
How many teenagers will have everything they need, and STILL make a stupid choice because they're lazy, selfish, and idiotic? All of them! Even educated married couples can be foolish enough to think "Ah, we wont get pregnant THIS TIME, it's okay to go ahead." and end up being pregnant.
In fact, I know a lot of married couples who never planned to have kids, who ended up getting pregnant because they had the "It won't happen to me!" invincible mindset. And these were adults, not teenagers who have 100% less brain power, self control, education, etc.
People don't want to see pornography and sex scenes in their content as much as they want to see [insert theme of content].
The argument isn't that people don't want sex in their stuff. The argument is that people are so stupid and driven by their barbaric instincts instead of their rational brains, that they fail to realize that by urging "OMG PLZ LET ME RAPES HER!!!!" they're losing one more quest.
If someone asks for CONTENT X in a CONTENT A game, then they'll get it because they're stupid enough to fail to relalize for every X, you lose an A.
Eventually there is a breaking point where CONTENT becomes so filled with X that people begin to realize how much A they lost. That's when the CONTENT gets saved and you see a lot if not ALL content X disappear to make room for tons of quality content A.
It's a very simple explanation. What I am trying to say is this:
I.E. for every amount of QUANTITY you add,
you lose that much QUALITY.
I wonder, why are you not picking up the maps -> they were primarily a matter of RTS games at that time. Blending and "stealing" that feature from RTS, it was integrated into RPGs.
I wonder why you don't pick up dialogue lines - which were always a domain of adventure games.
I wonder why you don't pick up 3rd person view? 3rd person view was always in FPS games, we should still have first person view as in the beginnings of RPG.
In a way, I agree that merging genres is not a good thing - I hate all the FPS & RPG mutations (like Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect)... But I am not gonna rave about it. I realize, that's what market asks. You can't expect from a mainstread company to produce something which is not the most mainstream and most catchy. You can't stop the progress. If you want to play independent games, go for indie companies with low budget. If you follow mainstream, then you should just shut up. No offense.
Wouldn't the oldest profession in the world be Hunter or Wood-Chopper?
Or some form of getting food.
Prostitution also requires a women to SELL her body for goods/services. I don't even think economy was invented back then. Having sex doesn't make a women a prostitute either.
So I'm sticking with the oldest profession being Hunter-Gatherer, or some form of Leader or Tool-maker.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
Really? As I said, killing is only murder if its not sanctioned by the state.
Three random internet articles prove nothing.
You can find any article to support what you want to say, regardless of what you're saying.
The fact and reality remain, it is not a crock of BS at all. If you want to argue, you will need to provide better sources.
Reality of Sweden (Real Life Events) > Random Internet Article spouting unfounded or biased claims.
Three credible sources vs no sources?Guess source evaluation is not your strong part.
And Sweden has a very low teenage pregnancy rate, about 1/3 of the UK and 1/5 of the US. At least make an effort to find stats before spewing nonsensical garbage.
The only credible source is that of reality.
It's not "three credible sources vs no sources" it's "no sources vs no sources."
Unless you truly believe that "If you read it on the internet, it has to be true!"
Or the more commonly believed "If someone says it and says "A scientist said so!" then it MUST be true!"
I don't find any random internet article a credible source. I agree with you that education is important, but I disagree that this way is the best way to handle the problem.
For example, you could use a shoe to hammer nails into boards to make a boat.
Of course... you could use a hammer too. Why say "The shoe is fine." when a hammer is so much more effective- where the problem is the boat is sinking?
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
Really? As I said, killing is only murder if its not sanctioned by the state.
What if you killed someone because they refused to commit suicide after you demanded them to?
Oh, and the person helped feed starving children and their only possession was a piece of tape, which you demanded also.
LoL, just giving you a hard time :P lol
It is not. Sweden is a perfect example of a society that has a very developed sex education system yet has the highest rate of teen abortions in Europe.
Sex education encourages people to have sex, period. That it is safe sex it encourages, obviously, does not seem to matter.
This is probably because since it encourages teens to have sex, they will have more sex (of course). And since condoms require you to
1) Have one
2) Use it
it fails BECAUSE the teens are having CONSISTENT sex, and thus will, as all teens do, make an incredibly idiotic assumption that they are invincible/immune "It won't happen to me!" and so when they encounter a situation where they want to have sex (as usual) but don't possess or desire a condom, they will do it anyway.
How many teenagers will have everything they need, and STILL make a stupid choice because they're lazy, selfish, and idiotic? All of them! Even educated married couples can be foolish enough to think "Ah, we wont get pregnant THIS TIME, it's okay to go ahead." and end up being pregnant.
In fact, I know a lot of married couples who never planned to have kids, who ended up getting pregnant because they had the "It won't happen to me!" invincible mindset. And these were adults, not teenagers who have 100% less brain power, self control, education, etc.
Yep very true. I remember when I was in school and they had those sex ed hours. Noone of us discussed how we would now use condoms but rather who had sex with who and who is a virgin or not.
People seem to think that just because you show a video encouraging people to have sex with condoms then teenagers will see that, instead of them seeing people having sex (and wanting to have it as well).
Also the media has much more influence than school in this matter. Everything from Britney Spears, to games like Dragons Origins to hardcore gang bang porn is readily available for all kids. They watch it, and are told that sex is natural and then they want to do it. Be it oral sex when they are 12 years old or threesomes when they are 16.
This in turn leads to:
Same is NOT seen with violence. There still has not been credible studies that shows that violent media encourages an otherwise normal people to engage into violent acts. The reason is that most normal people are not inclined to do that and a violent video wont make them be. However almost all human beings are enclined to have sex and are thus much more influenced by media.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
Really? As I said, killing is only murder if its not sanctioned by the state.
Dont get caught up in semantics. By killing I mean murder, and not killing another soldier in a war.
That is the only state sanctioned killing that exists in most modern, democratic countries (US not being one of them).
Awesome. First my politics is assaulted, and now my religion is maligned. Thanks for the welcoming and non-bigoted atmosphere you bring to the web, MMORPG.com!
I doubt too much has changed in that respect since 2002 or so, and most time-line studies will have a few years time lag. The argument stands. To become part of the abortion rate you need to first be pregnant.. And yes, the teenage abortion rate in Sweden is higher than most other countries (if I remember correctly about 1/5 of all teenage pregnancies are carried to term). However, the incidence of teenage pregnancy and abortion in Sweden is among the lowest in the world.
http://www.colorado.edu/ibs/PP/menken/courses/socy3012/teenpreg.htm
http://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/1125/36/
Those are two cited articles about why the condoms in class programs are not that great. Access not to condoms but birth control pills would be a better route to stop teen pregnanc ies.
First article does not support your view and the second one is from a Pro-Life/Abstinence Only group. I applaud your effort, but better luck next time.
so the reviewer picked the wrong option in speech dialog with the wrong character, got secretly excited over the result and in a bought of self hatred decided to write the review about how gay and dirty it is....gottcha. Bet he peeked in the showers after gym class too.
If you read the first article you would see that it is about the fact that condoms: cost, availablity and effectivness make it a poor choose to be taught in schools due to the fact that a program that made birth control pills, Norplant, and other more expensive and effective birth control methods would be better in school programs. The fact that poorer people will not buy condoms, and these communities are where the most pregnancies are happening, is another fact cited in the paper about why teaching condoms instead of making the other programs available would be better.
The second article is about the ineffectiveness with scientific data about the use and misuse of condoms. As you odviously failed to read it has data about the need for people to not only keep and maintain a fresh supply of condoms but it also talks about halfway down about how poorer people (which includes kids that would not have the cash to buy) fail to spend the money and time to make condoms as effective as they could be.
So while Applaud your effort to denounce the articles...better luck next time.
Are we reading the same text? The first one discusses the implications of different policies on teenage pregnancy rates, and concludes that sex ed and access to safe contraceptives along with social support programs are the way to go. How you twist this into a degrading of condoms I do not know, especially as the word "condoms" only appear once in the text.
Second article I won't even bother to look at. Biased reports never offer any insight into the problem, just into the twisted minds of those writing them. A condom, used correctly, provides 100% protection against STDs and unwanted pregnancy, and are handed out like candy at most health stations. Even buying condoms is cheap if you look at the cost-benefit they offer. That people fail to realize this does not make them any less effective.
Guess this is a reason not to read your posts...
After that comment we are done here. 100% huh...what a perfect world you live in. 100%......lol.....100%...I just can not get over that you would use 100%. To you I say good day sir and I hope the rest of the mythical animals in your realm have a good day.
Talgen, that was my bad on mis-editing quotes. I wasn't impling anything about you at all.
And Yamoda, in two responses you've tried to call me "deluded" or "seriously deluded". I could get all bent out of shape about that, but I won't. I'll just point out that taking umbrage over a skippable cut-scene in a game that you don't play to such a extent is a sign of someone who is, shall we say, a bit repressed.
Your rather rigid moral stance doesn't (thankfully) dictate to Bioware or the players who enjoy DA:O.
And you won't change the moral worldview of people here just by posting.
So why are you trying so hard???
Video Games are always a easy target.
After that comment we are done here. 100% huh...what a perfect world you live in. 100%......lol.....100%...I just can not get over that you would use 100%. To you I say good day sir and I hope the rest of the mythical animals in your realm have a good day.
Condoms when used correctly have an 98%+ chance to prevent pregnancy and 80% to 95% to prevent infection by STDs (depending on the specific STD). In other words: everyone who doesn't want a child or STDs and has some common sense uses condoms.
I'm not sure though what that has to do with Dragon Age. oO
Spooning! Oh, the horror! What is this world coming to when we can watch 2 males spoon in a video game. We are all doomed I tell you! Repent now!
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
I doubt too much has changed in that respect since 2002 or so, and most time-line studies will have a few years time lag. The argument stands. To become part of the abortion rate you need to first be pregnant.. And yes, the teenage abortion rate in Sweden is higher than most other countries (if I remember correctly about 1/5 of all teenage pregnancies are carried to term). However, the incidence of teenage pregnancy and abortion in Sweden is among the lowest in the world.
What argument stands? That Swedish sex education promotes safe sex? If so then it certainly does not.
Swedish doctors give out birth control like candies and that is the reason for low pregnancy rate and not that Swedish people use condoms. Several studies has shown that very few people in Sweden use condoms because abortion is readily available and so are birth control pills (neither which protects against STDs).
Also you first say that abortion rate is relatively high in Sweden and then say it is lowest in the world? That is bullshit, it is among the highest in the world (estimated 26% of pregnancies are ended in abortions in Sweden). The lowest rates in Europe is Poland that has almost 1 % and highest is Russia with over 50%.
Average age of sex in females, in Sweden, was last reported to be 14 years old. And I have grown up as a teenager in Sweden and I can tell you that it is very common for people to have unprotected sex at ages as low as 15.
So no, your argument stands nothing.
Really? As I said, killing is only murder if its not sanctioned by the state.
What if you killed someone because they refused to commit suicide after you demanded them to?
Oh, and the person helped feed starving children and their only possession was a piece of tape, which you demanded also.
LoL, just giving you a hard time :P lol
In either case, if it was sanctioned by the state, it would not be murder. Murder is a government definition. It seldom applies to its own actions.
My rigid moral stance? LOL
I have 100 gig of porn on my HD and I regularly have sex with people who I am not married to.
That does not make me want to have porn in a friggin computer game. Why are you trying so hard to advocate for porn in a video game?
And as for changing the view of people here? I dont care less about that. I rather am trying to defend those people who may think it is inappropriate to have porn hidden in fantasy RPGs. Because you know, most, people play fantasy RPGs for other reasons than to see sexual acts (be it gay or otherwise).
In this age, with all the sexual liberals around, corps are trying to use sex to cash in on everything and that could lead to detrimental effects on the society. Such as STDs, unwanted pregnancies and sexual assaults all of which are among the highest ever in the recorded history in most countries.
Sex is not just sex but has consequences. It is easy to forget that will all the visual depictions seen in media and now it is spreading to fantasy RPGs as well. What is next, sport games? Fifa World Soccer with the player screwing each other after the game?
Mmmmm Hot Coffee anyone?
Really? As I said, killing is only murder if its not sanctioned by the state.
What if you killed someone because they refused to commit suicide after you demanded them to?
Oh, and the person helped feed starving children and their only possession was a piece of tape, which you demanded also.
LoL, just giving you a hard time :P lol
In either case, if it was sanctioned by the state, it would not be murder. Murder is a government definition. It seldom applies to its own actions.
Legal definition, if you want to be picky.
But still does not understand how that relates to sex in society.
Actually I think the low pregnancy rate is because children are a damn expensive hobby (not to mention the high divorce rates).
"The good news for the gay community is that apparently social values have progressed far enough in the last few years that lesbians are now OK. "
I would actually you the word digressed rather than progressed, but that is my opinion. Sure, sure call me a homophobe because anyone that sees homosexuality as morally wrong must be a afraid of homosexuality and a bigot to boot. As one poster said above me the current way of thinking for many seems to be to be tolerant of everyone except those that disagree with you.
With that aside, I have no objection to this game being in the marketplace. It does have a mature rating and has warnings for the type of content it contains. People need to read about a game before buying for their children or even for themselves. If something offends you in a game that had warnings then you only have yourself to blame. The game is not for me not just for the sexual content but also becuase of the gory violence. However, I have no objection to it being on the market for those that like that kind of content.
Really? As I said, killing is only murder if its not sanctioned by the state.
What if you killed someone because they refused to commit suicide after you demanded them to?
Oh, and the person helped feed starving children and their only possession was a piece of tape, which you demanded also.
LoL, just giving you a hard time :P lol
In either case, if it was sanctioned by the state, it would not be murder. Murder is a government definition. It seldom applies to its own actions.
And beyond the point.
Look i could make a movie about a mass murder who slaughters thousands of people
it's haraleded as the next big action flick
I can make one about a canible who eats his victims for personal pleasure
it's a dark drama
i make one about 2 gay cow boys and
"Woah you can't go there!"
"I boinked the elf and I did it for the achievements."
This should be an Officially Licensed t-shirt.
Whats so funny is that the game doesn't just give you gay sex, you have to ask the game to give you gay sex. So anyone complaining about having gay sex in DAO, is probably gay.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
Not really a fair comparison, ViewDoo said 'socially' acceptable, and you reference what is legally accpetable. Big difference.
In a social context, especially what children are allowed to see for example, murder and violence are far more acceptable than sex, or even cursing. THAT is nonsensical.
What if you killed someone because they refused to commit suicide after you demanded them to?
Oh, and the person helped feed starving children and their only possession was a piece of tape, which you demanded also.
LoL, just giving you a hard time :P lol
In either case, if it was sanctioned by the state, it would not be murder. Murder is a government definition. It seldom applies to its own actions.
And beyond the point.
Look i could make a movie about a mass murder who slaughters thousands of people
it's haraleded as the next big action flick
I can make one about a canible who eats his victims for personal pleasure
it's a dark drama
i make one about 2 gay cow boys and
"Woah you can't go there!"
How about a gay abortion doctor gone wild? Doing abortions on unwilling pregnant women. Then having sex with their husbands. You could encompass the entire spectrum that way. Gay sex, legal murder and illegal murder. He could also slash a condom seller as well and call it corporate espionage.
What if you killed someone because they refused to commit suicide after you demanded them to?
Oh, and the person helped feed starving children and their only possession was a piece of tape, which you demanded also.
LoL, just giving you a hard time :P lol
In either case, if it was sanctioned by the state, it would not be murder. Murder is a government definition. It seldom applies to its own actions.
And beyond the point.
Look i could make a movie about a mass murder who slaughters thousands of people
it's haraleded as the next big action flick
I can make one about a canible who eats his victims for personal pleasure
it's a dark drama
i make one about 2 gay cow boys and
"Woah you can't go there!"
How about a gay abortion doctor gone wild? Doing abortions on unwilling pregnant women. Then having sex with their husbands. You could encompass the entire spectrum that way. Gay sex, legal murder and illegal murder. He could also slash a condom seller as well and call it corporate espionage.
Kevin Spacey as the gay rogue abortionist.
Spooning sucks!
Always have to find that comfortable position for the other arm thats not spooning... and no matter what position (under the pillow, over your head, under your girl friend/boy friends head...) the arm goes numb and falls asleep. Then someone moves and you get that whole pins and needles thing going on...
BAN SPOONING!
As for the article, meh... I tend to ignore small sites like that with reporters who are just trying to get shock value attention.
Though I will laugh if this ends up on Fix- er, Fox news again like Mass Effect.
Haha, so true!
Anyway. Praise to these devs for having the guts to bring this out. It is all to easy to opt for the politically correct "I don't want anyone to become upset which might hurt our revenues" approach.
Let's examine the aim of people most RPG's focus on (in the M rated) catagories. Males 17+ . Legaly speaking not to mention all the middle schoolers who have horrible parents who don't care and get their kids what ever they want to play. What do we all like to see. Hmm I think lesbian sex ,nudity, alchohol, and drugs is a good start. With RPG's some additional gore. So lets see, I think people have over looked the themes of the past 5 years developement in RPG history ( 3rd person story based ones that is).
I will play this for the goodies, just as I played Witch Hunter for the goodies. Sooo, news needs to chill. This is just another game following the trend of making a successful and selling RPG. On a personal note, can't wait for DIablo 3. As it should be much the same, I still can't wait.
I'm not advocating porn, I'm telling you it is not porn.
You miss even the simplest points ....
Maybe people dont have anything against sex per se but rather think it is something private that you share with your significant other (or others if you are so inclined). Why do I have to see it in a video game?
It is not like porn is not readily available on the internet.
When I play a fantasy game I want to slay orcs/trolls/dragons and use magic. I dont want to watch some pseudo porn crap. I have ton of porn torrent sites that does that a million times better.
If you have played these games you would know you can easily avoid any romantic or sexual material in the Bioware games. In fact it takes effort on the part of the player to engage the NPCs in romace or sex. So if you aren't intersrted in that you will not accidentally end up viewing or particpating in those evennt.
First of all, my apologizes in advance, I'm international student and my english isn't perfect.
I find really funny that so many sources are focus in this kind of "game controversy" specially Newspapers and TV News. The sex scene in the game isn't forced you have to flirt for several minutes with a person to see that sex scene. After all the sex scene it's nothing (in my opinion). Either way if you are straight and you feel like homosexuality is the worst that happened to humanity since Adam Lambert or Jon Stewart, if you enjoy your FOX NEWS everyday, I don't know what the XXXX are you doing flirting with a dude in a video game (If your name is Joey DiFatta I understand). Personally I respect a hater, I respect someone that hates a specific minority for no reason, it's your decision. What I don't respect is an hypocrite. Some that say's abortion is wrong but death penalty is ok, someone that says homosexuality is wrong because the old testament says so and have a dog in the house or is divorced (both are against the old testament too).
What upsets me more is the time and money that all these Newspapers are expending trying to find a controversy where there wasn't. Uganda for example is getting ready for passing death penalty to homosexuals and HIV +, no matter what age they have. I understand and I respect your personal believes, but I want to think that for one single time, for just one damn single time we can agree in the fact that genocide is wrong, no matter how amoral you think your brother is. Where are the reporters when we are at the doors of a genocide, where is the article of WorldNewsDaily talking about this? Oh yeah, they are too busy because two 3D elves are boinking each other. It's better wait until you have thousands of underage corpses so you can have a disgusting article saying how sorry you are.
If you judge people, you have no time to love them (Mother Teresa)
Wow! This discussion has gotten really jumbled up, but as with sex being integrated into almost everything out there so is politics. The argument about sex vs. amount of content is at best fodder, because by adding the sexual content you are adding content and to say that the developers could forgo the sexual content and add more (better) content is a matter of opinion I for one like the fact that they added sexual content to ADULT games. Not for any sexual pleasure, but to distinguish my games from my children's games if you don't want it then don't play it, play Zelda or something else, if you don't want your children to play it don't hand them money blindly and hope some cashier (probably a kid themselves) does your parenting for you. Since Mario saved the princess sex has been on it's way into the video games (kisses, little hearts, etc). Please don't bring politics into this, leave them out, regulate and decide for yourselves what you want in a game, if we as a mass don't want it, we won't buy it and they'll change direction and gravitate towards something else. But as we have seen this point is moot also because sex sells, it always has, it always will. No matter your sexuality you are wired to "do it", once puberty hits it slowly but surely becomes part of most if not all of our decisions, to the point that if sex isn't part of your thoughts many psychologists say you have a problem ( a disorder of some sort). So back to basics: sex sells, if it didn't they would use it to sell everything out there. If you don't like it don't buy that product but quit bi**hing because I would rather see two toons have sex than to have to listen to bi**hing and moaning.
P.S. Condoms? come on way off subject there peeps! VIDEO GAME FORUM! Not a town hall meeting on whether sex ed is right or wrong! If you want deal with that subject get off your a**es and get involved in your community, child's school or even politics! But not here, not now!
It's all free publicity IMO. All they managed to do is make even more people to buy the game.
This ^^^^^^^^ .
Actually you are absolutely right with the movies happens the same. Movies with bad box office during the first week have been help by controversy. The last temptation of Christ by Martin Scorsese or Brokeback Mountain by Ang Lee are good examples. Both movies were doing ok until controversy arrived then the audience multiplied by 10 the opening week.
Actually you are absolutely right with the movies happens the same. Movies with bad box office during the first week have been help by controversy. The last temptation of Christ by Martin Scorsese or Brokeback Mountain by Ang Lee are good examples. Both movies were doing ok until controversy arrived then the audience multiplied by 10 the opening week.
Last Temptation of Christ was Mel Gibson, but I see your point.
However, I am probably going to get this game. A game with multiple choices and actual consequences for those choices? Sounds very interesting. The world is not strictly black & white, and it's good to see a game reflect this. ^_^
What if you killed someone because they refused to commit suicide after you demanded them to?
Oh, and the person helped feed starving children and their only possession was a piece of tape, which you demanded also.
LoL, just giving you a hard time :P lol
In either case, if it was sanctioned by the state, it would not be murder. Murder is a government definition. It seldom applies to its own actions.
Legal definition, if you want to be picky.
But still does not understand how that relates to sex in society.
Scroll back a few posts. It was stated that many people have less trouble with sex than killing.
Last Temptation of Christ was Mel Gibson, but I see your point.
No, it was Scorsese. PASSION of the Christ was Gibson.
However, I am probably going to get this game. A game with multiple choices and actual consequences for those choices? Sounds very interesting. The world is not strictly black & white, and it's good to see a game reflect this. ^_^
Last Temptation of Christ was Mel Gibson, but I see your point.
However, I am probably going to get this game. A game with multiple choices and actual consequences for those choices? Sounds very interesting. The world is not strictly black & white, and it's good to see a game reflect this. ^_^
No, no, I was talking about the The last Temptation of Christ by Martin Scorsese (1988). In this movie Christ is present as more human. As a consequence of this a French Christian fundamentalist group launched molotov cocktails inside a movie theather and 13 people, 4 of them were severely burned. This sounds awful but these hardcore news helped the movie box office that wasn't doing that well the first days.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
I'm thinking the poster meant that they can't understand why the depiction of murder is more morally acceptable, than the depiction of sex.
I would agree in that I DONT understand how some people are fine with showing violence over sex.
Sex is far less immoral than violence against your fellow man. Many self proclaimed moral people will raise hell over a little skin shown but won't mention a gun battles, murder, and horrid violence.
I for one am a liberal who like sex and violence. I do believe it should be restricted to adults. Thats why we have rating.
If the moral people want to be cosistent any game with any violence should be M rated.
This reminds me of long ago when the fit hit the san over the Demons in the original Dungeons and Dragons. “It’s promoting Satanism” the finger pointing society cried, 1D4’s were burned at the stake, Gary Gygax hanged in effigy, Sermons preached and a made for TV movie “Mazes and Monsters” hit the air. An organization Bothered about Dungeons and Dragons, BADD took up the crusade and the second edition’s monster manual, had the Devil scared out of it.
There are a number of players of Dungeons and Dragons Online, crusading for “Evil" alignments, however given the controversy over the D&D original that is unlikely to happen. Now “Dragon Age” is under attack for it’s sexual themes. I would bet the game is changed because of the pressure. “You never ask questions when God’s on your side”
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
I'm thinking the poster meant that they can't understand why the depiction of murder is more morally acceptable, than the depiction of sex.
I would agree in that I DONT understand how some people are fine with showing violence over sex.
Sex is far less immoral than violence against your fellow man. Many self proclaimed moral people will raise hell over a little skin shown but won't mention a gun battles, murder, and horrid violence.
I for one am a liberal who like sex and violence. I do believe it should be restricted to adults. Thats why we have rating.
If the moral people want to be cosistent any game with any violence should be M rated.
I agree with you 100%. M means Mature. I never understand the censorship, don't want see violence? don't go to see a violent movie/video game, don't want to see sex? well don't watch it but let the people who wants to see sex and violence make their own decisions as adults. Your freedom ends when mine begins.
Well, their book says "Don't judge, and you won't be judged. Don't condemn, and you won't be condemned. Set free, and you will be set free." My version says "GO HATE YOURSELF"
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
What kind of nonsensical statement is this?
Go and kill someone and you will either end up in jail or receive the death sentance.
Have sex and.... at worst people will think you are a slut.
Oh yeah, I see how that is so much less acceptable.
I'm thinking the poster meant that they can't understand why the depiction of murder is more morally acceptable, than the depiction of sex.
I would agree in that I DONT understand how some people are fine with showing violence over sex.
Sex is far less immoral than violence against your fellow man. Many self proclaimed moral people will raise hell over a little skin shown but won't mention a gun battles, murder, and horrid violence.
I for one am a liberal who like sex and violence. I do believe it should be restricted to adults. Thats why we have rating.
If the moral people want to be cosistent any game with any violence should be M rated.
I have responded to that and the reason is obvious. Children watching porn will get sexually aroused and then, obviously, would want to have sex (duh).
Where as children watching violence will not want to commit acts of violence (which has been shown in innumerous studies) as most people are not inclined to be violent where as most people are inclined to having sex.
So sex in media is far more influencing than violence in media.
Also please make the distinction between fictional sex and violence and real sex and violence. I doubt very much that you like real violence.
I'm thinking the poster meant that they can't understand why the depiction of murder is more morally acceptable, than the depiction of sex.
I would agree in that I DONT understand how some people are fine with showing violence over sex.
Sex is far less immoral than violence against your fellow man. Many self proclaimed moral people will raise hell over a little skin shown but won't mention a gun battles, murder, and horrid violence.
I for one am a liberal who like sex and violence. I do believe it should be restricted to adults. Thats why we have rating.
If the moral people want to be cosistent any game with any violence should be M rated.
I agree with you 100%. M means Mature. I never understand the censorship, don't want see violence? don't go to see a violent movie/video game, don't want to see sex? well don't watch it but let the people who wants to see sex and violence make their own decisions as adults. Your freedom ends when mine begins.
Freedom does not triumph all. A society needs to draw boundaries if its for the good of the society, even if it affects your freedom.
However I am not arguing for forbidding sex and violence in movies/games. However I am arguing against cleverly disguising porn in a media that one would not expect to find it. And I for one had no idea that they had gay sex in this game and if they do then they should clearly state that on the box.
Not everyone is a liberal that enjoys watching deviant sexual behaviour you know. If you like to watch farm-sex, or whatever, then please go ahead and watch it, but I would like to be able to play a computer game and not be exposed to it. Freedom of choise includes having the choise NOT to do or watch things as much as it means that you have the right to do it.
i am offended by this thread why hasnt the moderator done anything about it it offends me, how come when i say something s..ks i get a warning but these guys are offending me left and right do something mister moderator.
Last Temptation of Christ was Mel Gibson, but I see your point.
No, it was Scorsese. PASSION of the Christ was Gibson.
However, I am probably going to get this game. A game with multiple choices and actual consequences for those choices? Sounds very interesting. The world is not strictly black & white, and it's good to see a game reflect this. ^_^
You are so right. I apologize! I saw Last Temptation, didn't see Passion. That's my only excuse for messing up. <bows head in shame>
Really? So all these right wing republican's in the U.S who are anti-gay and dont want to 'god forbid!' teach the youth how to use a condom.. arent trying to impose thier social rules AND religious views on the public? What the hell ever happened to separation of church and state.
Right Wing republicans aren't religious at all. They aren't trying to impose their social rules or religious views on the pubilc.
Right wing republicans care about only one thing: Their corporate masters.
By pretending to care about these things, and by pretending to go against them, they gain the vote of the South. The south is no more religious than the rest of the nation, they just have more churches. Because it's not about religion in the south, it's about culture. People dont' care about their religion, they care about their roots, their culture, their beliefs.
It's all pretend manipulation. The republicans have had full control of the government before, but never did anything about abortion. Yet they constantly parade to be anti-abortion. Well, they are, and they DO vote against abortion law. But that's irrelevant because abortion was settled bigtime in Roe vs Wade. They have never done anything to overturn Roe vs Wade, the pillar of abortion law. Why? Because that would be stupid! If they fix abortion by destroying Roe vs Wade and overturning it to give their constituents what they want, they will LOSE ALL THOSE VOTES! because without abortion as a hot topic, all the christian right votes will start to split. By never doing ANYTHING to actually be anti-abortion other than insignificant things to save face, they retain all those votes because the south is so ignorant they don't realize the republicans actually DONT care and actually ARENT anti-abortion. They also fail to realize that the democrats, who help the poor, stop more abortion than the republicans EVER have. The #1 reason for abortions are the lack of money. Help the poor financially, and you stop a multitude of abortions. The republicans haven't stopped any, they just pretend to.
That is just ONE example of many that republicans do to manipulate the ignorant to retain votes. It's NOT a coincidence that the vast majority of republicans are rather rich or live in high poverty (ignorant) southern regions. This isn't saying that republicans are ignorant, but that they have been manipulated and because of their past and present ignorance they fail to realize they're voting for the wrong party. It only takes ONE generation of ignorant people to instill in their future generations a stern republican idealogy to always vote conservative. Afterall, people tend to vote exactly as their parents did.
And the South is ignorant. So Corporations buy out the Republican party, which in turn misinforms the South manipulating their culture to convince them of whatever they want to keep them from voting how they'd want to vote (democrat) and thus retain power, thus retaining money (corporate payment).
It has NOTHING to do with religion or social rules. It's all based on social manipulation to insure votes, which insure corporate payouts.
Firstly I agree with you completely.
BUT we are talking about sex in video games not hard politics.
So lets get back on topic
However I won't lie I quoted you to get this post in front of more people because I agree with it so much.
I'm not advocating porn, I'm telling you it is not porn.
You miss even the simplest points ....
You dont get to tell others what is porn or not. Lesbian sex between two hot, young women is considered porn by alot of people. It may not be for you but it is for many others.
Something I left out of the article, but perhaps will bring it back around (this is not about liberals vs. conservatives!)...
The absolute and hilarious irony is that this is a group that applies pressure to retail outlets and consumers to get them to pull/not buy products.
If they run a campaign against Dragon Age they're doing it because there is optional gay sex with clothes on in a video game rated M and locked behind a glass wall. Simultaneously, there are dozens of movies and TV shows about 10 feet away in every Wal-Mart on Earth that are not locked in cupboard, that show much worse, much more and if you throw them in the DVD player it very much isn't optional.
But to the larger point. The article is about this kind of content in games. Good or bad? Not about Republics and Democrats. It just so happens that the fire starter for this piece was a conservative website. I'm Canadian, I truly don't have a Republican or Democratic agenda ;)
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
Nobody can take Palin seriously, her last pearl? On her visit to Hawaii she said she felt uncomfortable surrounded by so many asians and natives... Another funny quotes:
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where– where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."
"They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan."
This one is my favorite one:
"I think on a national level your Department of Law there in the White House would look at some of the things that we've been charged with and automatically throw them out."
Flash news, that Department does not exist.
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
Fantastic point. You have to actually do something to unlock the sexual content in the game, it won't even show up otherwise. And yet when watching a movie, the only option would be to leave the room or fast forward to avoid seeing sexual content. Yep, this group made a lot of sense targeting the game with the optional content instead of the tons of movies with more explicit content. (/sarcasm)
You dont get to tell others what is porn or not. Lesbian sex between two hot, young women is considered porn by alot of people. It may not be for you but it is for many others.
In fairness, then, you don't get to tell people what is deviant or not. I'm sure the gay and lesbian couples out there, who have never said an ill word toward you and most likely don't know you exist, wouldn't appreciate you labeling the times they spend together as "deviant".
Not that they need me to stand up for them, mind you. But what's fair is fair. If you don't want people labeling stuff for you, then you don't get to label it for them.
Fantastic point. You have to actually do something to unlock the sexual content in the game, it won't even show up otherwise. And yet when watching a movie, the only option would be to leave the room or fast forward to avoid seeing sexual content. Yep, this group made a lot of sense targeting the game with the optional content instead of the tons of movies with more explicit content. (/sarcasm)
Yes, because hiding something makes it worse.
You dont get to tell others what is porn or not. Lesbian sex between two hot, young women is considered porn by alot of people. It may not be for you but it is for many others.
For being considered porn should have explicit nudity and that's not the case. From the dictionary: "when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition it is not pornography, as the term applies to the depiction of the act, rather than the act itself. Thus, portrayals such as sex shows and striptease are not classified as pornography."
I can call porn Tomb Raider if I want to but my personal opinion doesn't change the meaning of the world.
Homosexuality, multiple-partner sex, bestiality, and adultery are all forms of sexual deviance that are morally wrong in almost every culture. Protesting against blatant sexual deviance is not homophobia.
However protesting against sexual deviance in a game where the object is to run around killing people is a bit absurd.
Correction: In GTA, you MUST play a homicidal maniac, the entire character has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
In Dragon Age Origins, you can be a savior of all the races, end racism, stop slavery and be a do gooder that if it all were real, would have you rolling Nobel Peace prices, and on the side, have gay sex...
Oh yeah, that is bad. Go shoot some hookers instead, that is proper behavior for an upstanding american.
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
You dont get to tell others what is porn or not. Lesbian sex between two hot, young women is considered porn by alot of people. It may not be for you but it is for many others.
For being considered porn should have explicit nudity and that's not the case. From the dictionary: "when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition it is not pornography, as the term applies to the depiction of the act, rather than the act itself. Thus, portrayals such as sex shows and striptease are not classified as pornography."
I can call porn Tomb Raider if I want to but my personal opinion doesn't change the meaning of the world.
Thats a very narrow and incorrect definition of pornopgraphy. From Merriam Webster Online dictionary (one of the largest online dictionaries)
The depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement.
Does not need to have nudity of any sort but only have the intent to cause sexual excitement. One may argue that is not the intent but two, young lesbians rolling around in the ground, kissing each other I think would be sexually arousing for most straight males.
Yeah, moderation on this forum is very sketchy. I made a post that was a little confrontational and got a warning for trolling or flaming or something. The exchanges on this thread seem far worse than my infraction.
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
Again it's not porn and it's not hidden. As you can see in the cover
http://www.covershut.com/covers/Dragon-Age-Origins-Front-Cover-20372.jpg
There is sexual content and you can read it the specific content on the cover. Now if you buy the game without reading the cover is your fault not theirs. Either way the game does not force you to do the sex scenes if you don't want to. To see that sex scenes you have to search for it. Nobody hides anything for your, is an option that the game gives you, again if you want.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
You bring up an important point.
The typical person who attacks games that are mature, have no clue what games really are. They still think ALL videogames are little more than Super Mario Bros and are thus aimed at the same audience as SMB.
Personally, partial blame rests once again, on the marketing departments (gawd I hate marketing departments!), although of late, the marketing of games rated mature has become much more responsibly handled (imo).
The resistance to M rated games will persist until the gamer generation are the ones running the country (and it will happen soon).
Should controversial content be in games? Hell yes... with the caviate that it's marketed responsibly of course.
Games are an art form (no matter what Roger Ebert says) and a vehicle of communication every bit as powerful (I'd actually say moreso) as film.
For being considered porn should have explicit nudity and that's not the case. From the dictionary: "when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition it is not pornography, as the term applies to the depiction of the act, rather than the act itself. Thus, portrayals such as sex shows and striptease are not classified as pornography."
I can call porn Tomb Raider if I want to but my personal opinion doesn't change the meaning of the world.
Thats a very narrow and incorrect definition of pornopgraphy. From Merriam Webster Online dictionary (one of the largest online dictionaries)
The depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement.
Does not need to have nudity of any sort but only have the intent to cause sexual excitement. One may argue that is not the intent but two, young lesbians rolling around in the ground, kissing each other I think would be sexually arousing for most straight males.
Your definition is completely wrong because if I choose your definition there is no difference between erotic and pornographic. A girl with a wet t-shirt can "cause sexual excitement", that doesn't make the scene pornographic.
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
Well, you can argue that the "L Word" doesn't hide it (on sale 10 feet from the game), but what about the last season of House? There is some lesbian sex in there, but it's not written on the box.
Should plot-driven games have to post a complete list of possibly morally objectionable points on the box so people know? It's not like they snuck it in there, and if gay, lesbian or any other sex offends you in a video game... try not clicking on the "want to go to my tent" button.
There is nothing in there that requires, encourages or even forces someone to experience that content save the achievement system ;)
The point is, certain groups have picked video games as the new evil and relentlessly chase down any indiscretion, while ridiculously looking away from the same content in more traditional mediums. It's a lack of education and fear of the medium.
Obviously I can choose to not play it, or not play computer games at all, or go live in a cave and not speak to anyone... but that is not the point.
The point is that if I play a fantasy game I dont expect to find porn in it. In particular I dont expect the game to give me rewards in engaging in it. Why? Because I play games not for seeing porn but to play games.
When I want to watch porn, I watch porn. I dont see any point in mixing it with fantasy RPG.
Why not mix it with fantasy RPG?
There is sex on legends, myths and almost all human artistic creations.
Most of time it is there because it is related to the base of social relationships and desires.
If you want to avoid any creation related to sex, desire and human body you will avoid every Shakespeare's piece , Greek Mythology, most or art from Romantism,Classicism and Expressionism, movies from directors like David Lynch, Cronenberg, Tinto Brass, most of fictional creations related to horror etc
The idea that sex is "there" only to get more money is sometimes just an illusion.
Everything that is related to human will have sex on it, implicit or explicit.
Tolkien's work is one of the fill fantasy creations that has no sex (in a explicit way) just becouse the author had serious issues against human desire (you can search for it), even so you can find sexuality in his work.
So, in the end, the issue is not "sex on media, art and entertainment" but the lack of artistic knowledge, moral aspects and judgmental behavior most of repressed people has. And this kind of repressed behavior will always contribuit to the real sex industry not sexuality depicted as an human and expressive characterist.
I can use "you" as an example (based on your words). "You" (as the moralist one) Don´t want to see sex in a natural way depicted in games, books and movies, you want sex to be secretive or confined to "traditional pornography". What you expressed is the pure example of repression.
...
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
The cover says "sexual content" it's more than enough. You don't read it before buying it, your fault, blame yourself
From the box...
" Rating: Mature
Content descriptors: Blood, Intense Violence, Language, Partial Nudity, Sexual Content "
You have been warned. What difference is it to you if it's gay sex or not? It's in game and it's up to you as the player to pursue it. It's my understanding that if you don't wish to see gay sex, you won't.
Ripping the heart out of the stomach is ok. Making love with someone is not...
oh human society... how I ... really don't understand it.
FYI: I slept with the witch :P
It's so funny that a no sexual scene with a frontal nudity receives the highest rating possible but a serial killer chopping heads off could received a lower rating.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
For being considered porn should have explicit nudity and that's not the case. From the dictionary: "when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition it is not pornography, as the term applies to the depiction of the act, rather than the act itself. Thus, portrayals such as sex shows and striptease are not classified as pornography."
I can call porn Tomb Raider if I want to but my personal opinion doesn't change the meaning of the world.
Thats a very narrow and incorrect definition of pornopgraphy. From Merriam Webster Online dictionary (one of the largest online dictionaries)
The depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement.
Does not need to have nudity of any sort but only have the intent to cause sexual excitement. One may argue that is not the intent but two, young lesbians rolling around in the ground, kissing each other I think would be sexually arousing for most straight males.
Just a point of curiosity do you believe any sex or romance is pornography even if it is part of a story and there to make the viewer/reader more invested in the characters and story?
Does that mean for a story not to have PORN by your definition that all charters must behave as if they have no sexual organs or the slightest intrest in the opposite sex.
A point here, females are often sexually aroused by word play and flirtation more than images. For there to be no PORN the characters would have to be sexually neutered, so as to not accidentally arouse people with flirting.
Im pretty sure if you didnt want to see this sex you can choose not to by choosing different options in the conversations in the game. Who cares about sex in games when you can get on the internet and see porn at almost every missclick.
The stupidity of the people getting all worked up over this makes me laugh
More than that. This is a game about making moral choices. The game doesn't usually say what's right or wrong, it lets you chart that course. Nothing you choose is 100% one way or the other, usually.
Thus, you can quite literally play the game as someone asexual, you can also chastise and ostracize members of your party who tell you they're inclined towards the same gender. Quite literally, an option when Zevran first reveals he goes both ways is to ask him to leave the party because you're not comfortable with that.
And ironically, the "best" option for your character in the game might well be to do that.
It's a video game about morality. Thus it presents all sides of the coin.
For being considered porn should have explicit nudity and that's not the case. From the dictionary: "when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition it is not pornography, as the term applies to the depiction of the act, rather than the act itself. Thus, portrayals such as sex shows and striptease are not classified as pornography."
I can call porn Tomb Raider if I want to but my personal opinion doesn't change the meaning of the world.
Thats a very narrow and incorrect definition of pornopgraphy. From Merriam Webster Online dictionary (one of the largest online dictionaries)
The depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement.
Does not need to have nudity of any sort but only have the intent to cause sexual excitement. One may argue that is not the intent but two, young lesbians rolling around in the ground, kissing each other I think would be sexually arousing for most straight males.
Just a point of curiosity do you believe any sex or romance is pornography even if it is part of a story and there to make the viewer/reader more invested in the characters and story?
Does that mean for a story not to have PORN by your definition that all charters must behave as if they have no sexual organs or the slightest intrest in the opposite sex.
A point here, females are often sexually aroused by word play and flirtation more than images. For there to be no PORN the characters would have to be sexually neutered, so as to not accidentally arouse people with flirting.
I agree with you. In his definition something erotic and pornographic have the same definition and the same intention: "cause sexual excitement". Hell, even a girl dancing can get turn on to someone, that doesn't make Dirty Dancing a porno movie +_+U
I consider Worldnetdaily a very good website exposing government corruption and its failures in all its forms. The article does not surprise me as they are a Christian website. They are only writing articles based how thir political and religious view. Whether we like it or not, agree or disagree they have a right to print it or put it on the web.
Parents and Adults must make the choice themselves of what games they play and what they expose to themselves or thier children. Bottom Line.
I own Dragon Age origins and i dont play it in front of my 8 year old.
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH raises plunger to joesph Farrah for exposing goverment corruption!)
Obviously I can choose to not play it, or not play computer games at all, or go live in a cave and not speak to anyone... but that is not the point.
The point is that if I play a fantasy game I dont expect to find porn in it. In particular I dont expect the game to give me rewards in engaging in it. Why? Because I play games not for seeing porn but to play games.
When I want to watch porn, I watch porn. I dont see any point in mixing it with fantasy RPG.
Why not mix it with fantasy RPG?
There is sex on legends, myths and almost all human artistic creations.
Most of time it is there because it is related to the base of social relationships and desires.
If you want to avoid any creation related to sex, desire and human body you will avoid every Shakespeare's piece , Greek Mythology, most or art from Romantism,Classicism and Expressionism, movies from directors like David Lynch, Cronenberg, Tinto Brass, most of fictional creations related to horror etc
The idea that sex is "there" only to get more money is sometimes just an illusion.
Everything that is related to human will have sex on it, implicit or explicit.
Tolkien's work is one of the fill fantasy creations that has no sex (in a explicit way) just becouse the author had serious issues against human desire (you can search for it), even so you can find sexuality in his work.
So, in the end, the issue is not "sex on media, art and entertainment" but the lack of artistic knowledge, moral aspects and judgmental behavior most of repressed people has. And this kind of repressed behavior will always contribuit to the real sex industry not sexuality depicted as an human and expressive characterist.
I can use "you" as an example (based on your words). "You" (as the moralist one) Don´t want to see sex in a natural way depicted in games, books and movies, you want sex to be secretive or confined to "traditional pornography". What you expressed is the pure example of repression.
...
Another liberal nutjob that calls me repressed. Just because I like porn to be in ehm I dont know, porn movies does not make me repressed. How is it secretive it is clearly visual to anyone that it is porn? It is the complete opposite of being secretive so that makes no sense what so ever.
However you seem to want to push porn on everyone by secretely putting it in other media where one does not expect it. Thus forcing your liberal and commercial view of sex on others. Hey newsflash for you, not everyone thinks that sex should be public, for some people (most I would say) it is something private
That is not being repressive, that is being private. You like to be public with your sexual urges then please, go ahead. But stfu about me being repressive when it is you who want to shove down commercial sex down everyones throats.
Also, are you comparing the works of Shakespear to two scantly cled lesbians having casual sex in a second grade comercial computer game? I guess art and history has zero meaning to you and we are just animals to our sexual desires right?
And sex as base of relationships, yeah sexual relationships? You are some damaged person if you think that sex is the base of many social relationships.
And those of the things that you say I think is a complete fabrication. I dont mind sex in media as long as it is clearly specified that the media contains that. It is, again, rather you who want it to be hidden so that everyone are exposed to it.
Because if they want to watch a fantasy RPG and not have porn in it then they are repressed right? You damn liberals...
Christ Yamota, give it up. This is not porn and it isn't "hidden" any more then the sex in Fable was.
I just find it funny that he won't address the point of the game cover tells you it has sexual content. No, Yeah, that's right, and if people want to know more about what kind of content they should then look it up on the internet.
No, it's the realize I'm wrong so ignore that aspect of the debate internet forum manuver +5.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
I dont mind watching it, I think lesbian sex is great to watch, but I do understand that there are people who does not like to watch it. Nor should they expect to in a griggin RPG.
I have addressed it. I can only read that many posts you know.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
sigh, we are living in the 21st century !
so for what......... its a controversey ?
Thats why, 3feel will never find a "western" investor :)
greetings
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
You know if you're straight there's TWO options for straight sex scenes to go through.
The sexually repressed CHOOSE, have a CHOICE, you can completely avoid it.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
AT NO POINT in the game do you have to consent to sex with any male or female. There's more options to avoid it in the dialogue tree, than to directly engage.
The game gave people choice, enjoy the freedom.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
Yeah, I realize that. And in turn those people need to be just as attentive of other's preferences as they want me to be of theirs. The point here is that you and others didn't take an extra 5 minutes to look at the game box label and add to it that consideration you so dearly want others to give you but don't give back in return and realize that in this modern world there isn't the level of hatred and secrecy put behind alternative lifestyles as it was even a few years ago. Games reflect society.
And again, I've played the game. You aren't forced into any sexual scene, ever. You actually have to build up relationship points with the character through dialogue and gifts to get them to a point to "do the deed". well, I'm not about Zevran, but "typically" males are more ready for sex at any given time than women so I would guess it's easier to bed him.
You are by all means welcome to hold on to the "one would normally" mentality if you want. But brotha, that mindset is long gone. Like I said above, you certainly don't have to like or approve, but don't kid yourself into thinking games are being made with the 1950, Johnny and Sally get married before they have sex and all you see is them walking through a door, closing it behind them with a Do Not Disturb sign on it.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
And I made that choice when deciding to play a fantasy RPG. I then expected to slay dragons, orcs, elves etc. Not engage into lesbian sex.
What times we are in that one has to be labeled as sexually repressed because one wants to play a fantasy RPG and not have lesbian sex in it. I guess in ten years there will be kiddie porn in fantasy RPGs and people not wanting that in there would also be sexually repressed.
Commercial sex in media is garbage, call me sexually repressed if you want to but for me sex is something PRIVATE.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
As a reporter playing it, I knew there was gay sex, but I never bothered to ask who it was with. It wasn't what my character was going for (monogamous relationship with Morrigan, lol), and so it wasn't until much later that I even realized which character it was possible with. Maybe I am slow, but I always assumed playing through the first time that it was Alistar who would do it. The dialogue was never explicit enough that you picked up on it unless you pressed for it.
I am pretty confident if not for articles like mine or WND's, you could play the game as a heterosexual male character and never even have the idea that gay sex was an option within the party. The only time it is explicitly presented is in the brothel when you can request male or female companions, but that is never shown (the screenshot in the news image is what you see, then it fades to black), and even then if you walk into a brothel and ask for a male companion, you should be aware of what you're getting into ;)
And rewinding to my core point in this article... If WND had published "video game full of sexual content" and complained that it had no place in a video game, I would have disagreed, but never thought more of it. I definitely wouldn't have written this article. What got things going was them focusing on male/male sex only (they were ok with lesbian sex and hetero sex apparently) and calling it "dirty." That was when they crossed a line from not wanting sex in video games (which appears to be where your at and that makes sense to me) and just gay bashing.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
Another liberal nutjob that calls me repressed. Just because I like porn to be in ehm I dont know, porn movies does not make me repressed. How is it secretive it is clearly visual to anyone that it is porn? It is the complete opposite of being secretive so that makes no sense what so ever.
However you seem to want to push porn on everyone by secretely putting it in other media where one does not expect it. Thus forcing your liberal and commercial view of sex on others. Hey newsflash for you, not everyone thinks that sex should be public, for some people (most I would say) it is something private
That is not being repressive, that is being private. You like to be public with your sexual urges then please, go ahead. But stfu about me being repressive when it is you who want to shove down commercial sex down everyones throats.
Also, are you comparing the works of Shakespear to two scantly cled lesbians having casual sex? I guess art and history has zero meaning to you and we are just animals to our sexual desires right?
And sex as base of relationships, yeah sexual relationships? You are some damaged person if you think that sex is the base of many social relationships.
And those of the things that you say I think is a complete fabrication. I dont mind sex in media as long as it is clearly specified that the media contains that. It is, again, rather you who want it to be hidden so that everyone are exposed to it.
Because if they want to watch a fantasy RPG and not have porn in it then they are repressed right? You damn liberals...
You can't technically call me a liberal ... anyway.
I didn't say you are repressed, but your words feed repression. I don't care about you, I care about your arguments.
Do you really know the work of Shakespeare? You will find much more sexuality than most modern games, also check Titus Andronicus, you will find not only sexuality but all kind of "taboos". I am not comparing the depth of a game with Shakespeare art, just the sexual contente, remember, you are the one using just one "label" for sexual expression on art/entertainment.
There is much more sex in every Shakespeare work than you will ever find in Dragon Age.
By your definition the work of Klimt and Von Stuck would be porn too.
You are confusing human creations that have sex on it (as everything human) with comercial sex.
By your words it seems you just don't have much historic and cultural knowledge. As I said, art always expressed sexuality, entertainment is by no means "pure art" but it is natural to expect that it will also express human nature.
Just remember what William Blake said " Art can never exist without naked beauty displayed. "
Sex will be public only if you want to see it, if you don't want, no one if forcing you to it. It can remain private to you, you just can't impose your decision among others. No one here is saying you should play Dragon Age your that you should expose your sexuality, you just can't judge, label or go "against" who prefer the other way.
If you don't want to see, play or watch anything with sex on it, feel free to it, the judgmental behavior is the issue.
And yes, sex is very important to every human relationship, sex is not only the coitus, but it express valours and the way someone connects to the opposite or to the same sex.
EDIT- Judgment is so present on you that you already are using an offensive and personal label on me, you call me "Another liberal nutjob " when I was polite talking to you. It is impossible to have a constructive argumentation with your attitude.
So, you have all your "arguments" against sexual exposition but are unable to respect someone who politely disagree with you? Don't tell me the "label" you used on me was a revenge for what I said when I mentioned repression...
This is just like "I want blood and violence but not exposed sex!"
The choice to avoid it and engage in it isn't something you can change.
Deal with it.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
It wasn't meant to be taken as an attack. I was just adding a paraphrasing to it.
Conservatives don't seem to mind slapping rubber testicles to their truck hitches, but a few polygons get grinding on screen and they're suddenly moral. The Palinization of this country is scary.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
I can understand where it may do so for you. That said, love and love interests have been a part of fantasy tales forever. RPGs usually have the hero going off to save some princess from some evil magician and they live "happily ever after". They are having sex, you know. It wouldn't be happily I don't think if they weren't (though, there may be an exception or two).
It's just now, game developers, as well as other forms of media in the US, are getting less and less "shy" about sex. A large part of the rest of the world, Europe especially, is way past the point we're at here. Last time I checked, their moral fibers weren't completely unraveling. Their societies aren't crashing into ruin. They are, in fact, doing just as well as anyone else.
Again, I understand some folks don't want to see it. That's cool. For the most part games are responsible enough to allow plenty of avenues for you not to. But love/sex, crafting, combat...all of those usually take place in an RPG story, whether shown explicitly or just hinted at.
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
Yeah, I realize that. And in turn those people need to be just as attentive of other's preferences as they want me to be of theirs. The point here is that you and others didn't take an extra 5 minutes to look at the game box label and add to it that consideration you so dearly want others to give you but don't give back in return and realize that in this modern world there isn't the level of hatred and secrecy put behind alternative lifestyles as it was even a few years ago. Games reflect society.
And again, I've played the game. You aren't forced into any sexual scene, ever. You actually have to build up relationship points with the character through dialogue and gifts to get them to a point to "do the deed". well, I'm not about Zevran, but "typically" males are more ready for sex at any given time than women so I would guess it's easier to bed him.
You are by all means welcome to hold on to the "one would normally" mentality if you want. But brotha, that mindset is long gone. Like I said above, you certainly don't have to like or approve, but don't kid yourself into thinking games are being made with the 1950, Johnny and Sally get married before they have sex and all you see is them walking through a door, closing it behind them with a Do Not Disturb sign on it.
I label that says sexual content is in no way sufficient for this but yeah I see your point and I dont think the game should be pulled from the shelves.
However the mindset that one would normally not expect sex in RPGs is actually still valid. It is only just recently that corporations has started to sneak in explicit sexual content into RPGs to sell more copies.
The greatest fantasy works ever made, such as Tolkiens works, Dungeons of Dragons, Warhammer and so on has no or very little explicit sexual content. Heck even Conan, which has tons of references to sex and prostitutes, has almost no explicit sexual content. That is not what fantasy is about, or atleast not up unttil now.
And dont mix sexual values into this, I have no problems with pre-marital sex (I do it alot myself
). However sometimes I want to just play a game and not be exposed to sexual content, at all.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
It wasn't meant to be taken as an attack. I was just adding a paraphrasing to it.
Conservatives don't seem to mind slapping rubber testicles to their truck hitches, but a few polygons get grinding on screen and they're suddenly moral. The Palinization of this country is scary.
Liberals, or conservatives, any kind of restrictions and policies go against our personal freedom. We don't need to have government to protect our children from M+ rating games, we should be the one bearing responsibility.
Yes, spoony love. How dreadful it tis.
I seriously don't have an issue with people who have a set of values, morals, whatever you want to call it, and they live by them. Especially if those values don't infringe or try to dictate how others live.
It's when people like this get up on their soapboxes, virtual or on the street corner, is when I get upset. I don't go around spouting of my values and morals. I keep them to myself. I expect the same in return. If I ask you for yours, by all means, talk to my ears bleed. If I don't, then STFU.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
It wasn't meant to be taken as an attack. I was just adding a paraphrasing to it.
Conservatives don't seem to mind slapping rubber testicles to their truck hitches, but a few polygons get grinding on screen and they're suddenly moral. The Palinization of this country is scary.
Liberals, or conservatives, any kind of restrictions and policies go against our personal freedom. We don't need to have government to protect our children from M+ rating games, we should be the one bearing responsibility.
Excellent point and well said.
I'm glad people are discussing it honestly.
1) Dragon Age Origins is a great game. I've played it about half way through and am really enjoying it so far. Bioware does a great job of putting the "role-playing" back in RPG's and of having the choices the player makes be neither simple or straightforward, of not pushing them down a particular path and of having the choices the player makes have a real difference in the game and in the game world. I wish more MMO's would take thier que from that style of design.
2) Bioware was clearly going for a certain "edge/controversy" in thier release and for reaping the marketing benefits of such. It seems that they've been quite successfull at that and bully for them. Different products are made for different market audiences. As long as products that aren't appropriate for little kids (speaking as a parent here) have some clear labeling to indicate such....so that parents who aren't particularly clued in to the game scene can make logical choices about what to get for thier kids...I really have no problem with developers releasing such games.
3) Anything anywhere that is more controversial then watching a lake freeze over is likely to offend some-one somewhere. It's also no doubt that the more outspoken and self-aborbed of those offended will write about being offended.... which in turn will prompt the self-righteous knuckleheads on the other side of the aisle to write about how offended they are that the first group is expressing it's offense...and the cycle repeats itself ad-nauseum.
As adults we need to get over the fact that people are different and have different tastes, values, social mores and view-points. We also need to get over the fact that people will find venues to express those views. As long as we aren't trying to impose our own viewpoints on others.... there really is no harm. Bioware isn't trying to impose it's value set on anyone else against thier wills....but then again neither are alot of the writers on sites like WND.... so for everyone who is so self-righteously bashing the bashers, I'd invite you to take a look in the mirror and see if you aren't guilty of much the same in your response to them.
4) Speaking as some-one who self-identifies as Conservative on most issues, I can vouch that NEITHER camp has cornered the market on self-righteous, loud-mouthed, idiots. So while in this article we can poke fun at conservative religious wingnuts getting offended at homo-sexuality in Dragon Age....just the other day I was reading an article on this site that linked to liberal "multi-culturalism" wingnuts complaining how video games that featured fighting against orcs, trolls and zombies was somehow promoting imperialism, colonialism, racial discrimination and a "lack of respect for ethnic diversity". So please, try not to throw rocks at conservatives too much before having a good long look at your own glass mansions.
5) Also realize that negative reactions to depicitions of homo-sexuality (or even overt sexuality) do not neccesarly make one a bigoted neanderthal. For example, my personal reactions to depictions of homo-sexual situations are pretty much the same as my reactions to liverwurst. I don't find it "evil" or "immoral" or anything like that..... but the sight of either does pretty much make me want to vomit. It's purely a strong aesthetic reaction.... so I try to avoid any portrayal of either. Fortunately Dragon Age doesn't try to push that on you unless you choose to go there. Now, steamy girl-girl action on the other hand... :)
If it would have been a guy and a girl in the game noone would ever have complained.
If it would have been a girl and a girl, a few people would have complained.
If it is a guy and a guy, it's the end of the world according to a bunch of people.
You buy a adult game. You flirt in the game on purpose because you want to with other characters. You invite on purpose the mentioned character to have sex with your character. And then you see a scene hinting that those two characters had sex. A scene that is no worse than any underwear advertisment seen anywhere for anyone at all ages at all times. And then you are suddenly surprised and angry and astonished and think that such a thing could happen is horrible.
oO
I think it takes a certain bit of intelligence to properly execute being a hypocrite. So, no conservative to me is seen as a neanderthal, more or less sexually repressed and very confused individuals comes to mind more oft than not. I think Mike Huckabee's a very intelligent man, but man he's a raging homo.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
A certain responsibility comes with "free speech". If you and others can't comprehend that then "free speech" becomes dangerous. Can it Political correctness, or whatever you like, but there is a responsibility that comes with using words.
As stated by Edward Bulwer-Lytton: The pen is mightier than the sword.
The words of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and O'reilly have drawn an immeasurable amount of blood.
Not exactly.
Baldur's Gate 2 has it.
What changed from BG2 to DA is that now you have a gay option.
Techincally there is no explicit sexual content in both games.
...
I personally LOVE how long it took for the holier than thou bloggers to get wind of it.
Very well put.
However I still want to play a fantasy RPG and not be exposed to sexual content. I guess I could just then avoid Dragon Origins which is not a problem since I dont play single player games anyway.
And that begs the question why are we even discussing this on www.MMORPG.com?
Not exactly.
Baldur's Gate 2 has it.
What changed from BG2 to DA is that now you have a gay option.
Techincally there is no explicit sexual content in both games.
...
And Custer's Revenge. Wiki it.
I don't think I'd call it a controversey, given how long the game has been out and I've heard no news reports on it anywhere or seen any people in the streets with signs.
That being said anyone that cares about what pixels do, or what other people do (when it doesn't hurt anyone else) is pathetic.
People who hate someone or are offended by someone due to: sexual orientation, race, gender, religion etc. are pathetic.
Someone who is offended by any game someone plays, show/movie someone watches, or book someone reads, is pathetic.
People have a right to live their lives the way they want. People have the right to produce legal products they want to produce. Anyone that cares what other legal things someone is doing....... are pathetic.
I'm tired of our world, and especially America, being so ridiculous and idiotic over issues. It's like most of society has the maturity level of an eleven year old.
I remember there was a brothel and a couple of sex scenes in Planescape Torment as well. Noone complained at that time and it's nowadays considered by one of the best games of all time.
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
Yeah, I realize that. And in turn those people need to be just as attentive of other's preferences as they want me to be of theirs. The point here is that you and others didn't take an extra 5 minutes to look at the game box label and add to it that consideration you so dearly want others to give you but don't give back in return and realize that in this modern world there isn't the level of hatred and secrecy put behind alternative lifestyles as it was even a few years ago. Games reflect society.
And again, I've played the game. You aren't forced into any sexual scene, ever. You actually have to build up relationship points with the character through dialogue and gifts to get them to a point to "do the deed". well, I'm not about Zevran, but "typically" males are more ready for sex at any given time than women so I would guess it's easier to bed him.
You are by all means welcome to hold on to the "one would normally" mentality if you want. But brotha, that mindset is long gone. Like I said above, you certainly don't have to like or approve, but don't kid yourself into thinking games are being made with the 1950, Johnny and Sally get married before they have sex and all you see is them walking through a door, closing it behind them with a Do Not Disturb sign on it.
I label that says sexual content is in no way sufficient for this but yeah I see your point and I dont think the game should be pulled from the shelves.
However the mindset that one would normally not expect sex in RPGs is actually still valid. It is only just recently that corporations has started to sneak in explicit sexual content into RPGs to sell more copies.
The greatest fantasy works ever made, such as Tolkiens works, Dungeons of Dragons, Warhammer and so on has no or very little explicit sexual content. Heck even Conan, which has tons of references to sex and prostitutes, has almost no explicit sexual content. That is not what fantasy is about, or atleast not up unttil now.
And dont mix sexual values into this, I have no problems with pre-marital sex (I do it alot myself
). However sometimes I want to just play a game and not be exposed to sexual content, at all.
Well, I don't know what you mean by explicit. I seem to remember some very, very baudy pictures in my old Dungeons and Dragon's game books. Pictures that made me say "heck yeah I wanna save the princess if she looks like that!
Anyway, if you mean explicit in that they're is nudity of genitalia and actual footage of intercourse, then no, that's not in DA. At best it's like a B movies you'd see on USA "Up all Night" back in the day. Basically equates to a girl in a bikini and a guy in briefs and lots of up close flash cut shots. Though I want to say there was a facial expression shot of the "moment", but it looked ridiculous and comical more than believable.
Again, I'd argue that sex has played a significant role in fantasy stories. It may not have been spelled out in detail, but it has been a motivator. Conan in his search for Valeria, countless heroes and villians in D&D over the years. Tolkien, eh, not so much. Though I do seem to remember that Sam had a crush on a young hobbit and they later married and had children.
You may not expect sex in RPGs. That's cool. But don't be surprised either. Socially we're past that point, unless you've been holed up in a cave for the last 20 years or so.
Very well put.
However I still want to play a fantasy RPG and not be exposed to sexual content. I guess I could just then avoid Dragon Origins which is not a problem since I dont play single player games anyway.
And that begs the question why are we even discussing this on www.MMORPG.com?
Dana started it, the cheeky devil.
Dana started it, the cheeky devil.
Same logic as before. It's an RPG and this could just as easily have been an issue in an MMO. Heck, maybe it will be in an issue come SWTOR time ;)
Plus, Scott had something come up and I had to fill space! :P
Just so long as there is a democrat in the white house... Other wise W"N"D is rather more reserved in its investigations. Dragon Age was bound to get the fundies in a hysterical fit, which I suspect was one of the reasons for some of this coverage.
In a perfect world, video game designers would focus on the quality of their game without having to worry about losing valuable profit because a bunch of socially conservative activists might get offended at some minute element of a game neither they nor their own children would ever even think of playing and create an overblown public uproar to frighten large distributers into not selling the game (despite its full legality and already adult rating) for fear of being sued by some soccer mom who would rather blame little Billy's psychopathic behavior on that game they blindly bought him last Christmas rather than, say, the fact that they yell at him every time he tries to form a coherent independent opinion.
Well let me see Dragon Age Origins this looks like a fun game...but wait it says Mature 17+ content rated by the ESRB, um let me flip the game and look at the back of the box and see why its rated M. (flip box over) Look in the bottom right hand corner of the box a big giant M and it says blood, intense violence, language, partial nudity, and wait what is that last one say SEXUAL CONTENT. Right from that point WND you should have know there was going to be something you dont like about this game...oh wait....your basing your opion off a YouTube video. If you would have played game you could have so many other things to complain about but no you just watched one video and flipped the hell out. My advice to you WND get a grip there are bigger problems in this world then what happens in a video game. And one last thing WND the game is AWESOME. Thats all for now bye bye.
It is an interesting subject Tolroc, I am not sure I can find some source for you now. But there are a couple of letters from Tolkien to his son that gives a good example about his view on desire and its destructive side. Not judging his personal view of course but this detail somehow explain some aspects in his work.
I did not read Children of Hurin it seems to be interesting I will look for it.
It is an interesting subject Tolroc, I am not sure I can find some source for you now. But there are a couple of letters from Tolkien to his son that gives a good example about his view on desire and its destructive side. Not judging his personal view of course but this detail somehow explain some aspects in his work.
I did not read Children of Hurin it seems to be interesting I will look for it.
Isn't Children of Hurin the one his son assembled from his notes?
If so, it's possible that's why it's the one example of it in the guy's works.
As I find this topic endlessly entertaining, I can't pass up a chance to add in my personal $0.02...
One thing I find particularly interesting is the general correlation between the hype/publicity of a game and the degree of public outcry over "controversial" content. Sex and extreme violence are hardly new things in video games. DA:O is hardly the first game to include sexual interactions between characters. Nor is it even the first RPG to have such. It is however one of the first to recieve this degree of media coverage for this inclusion (with the possible exception of GTAIII). To give a brief rundown of past games with as much, if not more sexual content as DA:O
Leisure Suit Larry series: Any older gamer out there probably remembers this series, based entirely around the attempts of one of the worlds biggest losers to get laid. While there was never any explicit nudity or sex, it was very heavily implied.
The Witcher: A newer game, and an action RPG to boot, there was essentially a side quest/mini game which involved having the main character have sex with as many of the female characters in the game as possible. Each time you had sex with a new character, you got a nude (in the original European version) photo in collectible card form.
Fallout 3: Not much explicit sex in this one, but similar to Oblivion a number of nudity mods were created by the community, along with a very popular mod which added random rape victims to the wastes. The game does have a number of romantic interactions possible with certain NPC's as well as some random prostitutes you could "rent".
Fable: In Fable it was possible to attempt relations with pretty much every single female in the game (and potentially males as well, but not 100% on that one). While the actual act of sex was glossed over (as it always is), it was not obfuscated in any way (you knew that your character was having sex even if it wasn't shown)
GTAIII: Umm, health replenishing prostitutes anyone?
Knights of Xentar: This was an older Hentai RPG I ran across back in the day. Absolutely hilarious story about a knight raised by a diaper cleaning service. Through the course of the game, one of the major objects was to get each of the major female NPC's to get naked and have sex with you.
Pretty much all past Bioware RPG's: Pretty much every RPG developed by Bioware (most notably Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, NWN, NWNII, and Planescape) had romantic possibilities for the main character. In the past, I believe that these have been limited to hetero couplings, but time brings progress...
Now for a few games for which I cannot recall names, but whose entire purpose for existing was... lets call it sexual simulation...
Waaayyy back in the days of the BBS's, there was a mixed text/ASCII graphics multiplayer game where your character wandered around an adult themed theme park picking up random sex toys which you used to convince other players/NPC's to have sex with you (gay, lesbian, or straight). When you finally broke down another characters resistance to your advances, you were treated to an animated ASCII of the particular sex act you were after.
SexVilla: This is a collection (sort of) of different sexual simulations. The basic premise is that you pick a couple of actors (single female, two females, male/female couple, threesome), and a setting, then you get to direct them in whatever manner you choose. An enormous number of sex toys were included (some fairly disturbing ones too like the lit cigar, cucumber, whips, riding crops, etc...). There have also been versions of the game released which had very much anime/hentai inspired actors including demons and the penultimate Hentai tentacle penis monsters.
Last but not least: There is a whole subset of Japenese somewhat Hentai inspired games similar in gameplay to the aforementioned SexVilla games, but where the goal is not to direct random actors to have sex, but rather to have your main character rape various young women in a number of scenarios (on the train, in a bathroom, etc...). Honestly one of the most disturbing pieces of gaming I have ever run across in my 25 years of computer gaming. However, when you really think about it objectively, it's not much worse than a game like Manhunt or the Hitman games which are based around executing other people in the most disturbing methods imaginable. Now I don't want to start an argument here on the relative merits of rape and execution here, but I personally put them on approximately the same level of deviation. Both involve the forceful violation of the most basic human rights to life and freedom. Rape has much longer lived repercussions for the victim than does execution of course, but it's arguable that both involve the death of some part of the individual (one the body, the other the spirit).
Anywho, I think I've ranted long enough for one day. No real point here other than that sex has been included in games, both RPG and others since long before DA:O was even an idea in the developers heads. It has been included in far more explicit and offensive forms than implicit gay sex as well. The only particularly innovative feature of sex in DA:O is the higher media profile of the game, and the wider audience which it is reaching.
That is all.
Well, there actually is sexuality woven within the lines of shakespear plays. A lot of innuendo and small comments here and there. And the sonnets are equally about a "dark woman" and a Man so there is the possibility of interacial love and homosexuality. Depending on what Dark Woman meant and depending on whose voice the sonnets are written from.
Look, as someone who has acted and who has worked with actors, I have to say that from what I've read and experienced, actors haven't really changed all that much since shakespeare's time. And many of them will do anything if they like the part. Heck, there was a time when a local playwrite wrote a lesbian scene and asked one particular actress to be in it. She approached me and said she would be in the play and do the scene but only if I was director. So actors and actresses in many cases can warm up to a part no matter what it is if it intrigues them.
But you bring about a great point which I think some people are overlooking. The idea that sexuality is a very private thing for everyone. Even those who like to engage it in public. : )
Just because a person doesn't want to see sexuality in movies, games, public places doesn't make them a prude.
To that end, I only like sexuality in movies, games, literature when done well. If it is done well then bring it on and in buckets! But I have always found it a bit tacky to watch people making out in public. Heck, I own porn both arty and not so arty,. I own erotic literature. My female characters in DA went straight for leliana (pun intended).
But do I want to walk down the street and see pictures of people copulating or turn on the television and see breasts everywhere? Certainly not.
What I think is important is choice.
I have no problems with games, movies with any type of sexuality as long as I know beforehand. Now, some writer/directtor/person might say that the discovery of that sexuality is really what makes the inclusion important but I say that that is using sex as a gimmick. And I'm for using sex as a gimmick but only if everyone is on board with that.
Movies and literature have sexuality. And as above, shakespeare does have quite a bit of sexuality laced within his lines.And Mozart wrote some extremely filthy songs (for the time). Sometimes when my Uncle waxes nostalgic about one composer or another I sometimes smile and know that he would be beside himself if he knew that one was a homosexual and another was a raving bigot.
People should always have the right to choose. If a person doesn't want to see sexuality that makes him/her no less than those who want to sprinkle their cereal with it. We all don't perceive things the same way.
And sometimes that choice is just not seeing/hearing/playing the subject in question. I say a person should do their research and know what they are getting yourself into.
If an individual knows that he/she is more easily offended then it is up to him/her to make sure that they know what they are watching. If dev is going to include the possibility of controversial material then perhaps it should be made known so that everybody involved is on the same page.
After all, getting along is not saying to some other faction that you have to accept what I believe no matter what. It's more about saying "hey, as long as you dont' persecute me for what I believe I won't shove it in your face".
If people want respect they have to give respect.
First of all to claim deviance you have to accept that there is a norm that is being deviated from. And you just can't do that. People all over the world throughout all times have done different things to get off. The idea that a sexual behavior is deviant is false.
Those things are not morally wrong in every culture. I understand that since you think those things are deviant, you also think that 'right-thinking' people all over the world agree with you, but its just not the case.
Now lets assume for the sake of argument that there is a sexual norm, and the things you listed do indeed deviate from that norm. That still doesn't mean those things are wrong, or morally wrong. Different doesn't mean wrong. Also you can't show any harm, so protesting against gay people IS homophobia.
As one of the many dirty, dirty gays apparently responsible for destroying America and opposite marriages worldwide, thanks for your article. I check into game sites like this pretty much daily M-F just to see what is the latest on upcoming games… sometimes I glance at the forums, but seldom linger. Just as most of the posters wouldn’t want my gay to rub off on them, I even more so don’t want their stupid to rub off on me. I’m really happily surprised that most of the responses on this thread have actually been pretty supportive on behalf of gays. Thanks for that.
Electronic arts, for all its (deservedly or not) criticism that I’ve read about, is doing something pretty smart. The behemoth that is the Sims was introduced to me way back… when I overheard that it was for “fags, because you could be one.” I got the game. I actually teared up when I realized that I could have a male/male couple in the game. I don’t think straight people really appreciate that they’re in a world that is tailored for them… initial assumptions, social or work environments, every “appropriate” relationship, organizations… religious or secular… even every inane commercial that you fast forward through on your DVR is for you. For safety or even survival, many of us who don’t belong in that world have to act like we do. And then this… tiny crumb… fell from your big table… I could have a freaking boyfriend in this simple, monotonous game of Sims 2. Oh, yeah… some gamers really dog on the Electronic Arts. But I bought Every. Freaking. Expansion. Even the Ikea one. Oh, yeah, I got your Ikea right here, buddy. Ikea. Ikea? Ugh, god. And I highly doubt that I’m that only gay guy that did.
Gays and lesbians who play computers… just like straight boys and girls… plunge themselves headfirst into their pixilated lives and want to live vicariously through a hero, not the villain they’re accused of being in reality. Will Wright or somebody at EA must’ve known that gay gamers were literally starving for the tiniest sliver of not just recognition… but immersion.
Now I’m playing Dragon Age. And I feel like boinking an elf today.
Bah, he'll only break your heart.
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
A certain responsibility comes with "free speech". If you and others can't comprehend that then "free speech" becomes dangerous. Can it Political correctness, or whatever you like, but there is a responsibility that comes with using words.
As stated by Edward Bulwer-Lytton: The pen is mightier than the sword.
The words of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and O'reilly have drawn an immeasurable amount of blood.
The answer to speech you deplore is more speech not censorship. This is the argument that every demagogue uses to silence his or her opponents. The ACLU defended the right of the Klan to march in Skokie, no matter how despicable the Klan is, they still enjoy the right of free speech guaranteed by the Constitution. If you don’t understand that, you understand nothing about “Freedom”.
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.
Noam Chomsky
The very aim and end of our institutions is just this: that we may think what we like and say what we think. * Oliver Wendell Holmes
We live in oppressive times. We have, as a nation, become our own thought police; but instead of calling the process by which we limit our expression of dissent and wonder "censorship," we call it "concern for commercial viability." · * David Mamet
I am of course confident that I will fulfill my tasks as a writer in all circumstances--from my grave even more successfully and more irrefutably than in my lifetime. No one can bar the road to truth, and to advance its cause I am prepared to accept even death. But may it be that repeated lessons will finally teach us not to stop the writer's pen during his lifetime? At no time has this ennobled our history. * Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Yeah, kinda like spewing liberal drivel on a gaming website. How oppressive.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
A certain responsibility comes with "free speech". If you and others can't comprehend that then "free speech" becomes dangerous. Can it Political correctness, or whatever you like, but there is a responsibility that comes with using words.
As stated by Edward Bulwer-Lytton: The pen is mightier than the sword.
The words of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and O'reilly have drawn an immeasurable amount of blood.
Unless they have actualy developed those sonic weapons that were depicted in Dune then "speech" in actuality has never caused a single drop of blood to be shed. What actualy causes blood to be shed is people CHOOSING to ACT upon such speech. Responsibility for any blood spilt lies solidly in the hands of the people CHOOSING to spill it.
The idea that there is "speech/expressions/viewpoints" that is acceptable to be heard and speech that isn't (a viewpoint often taken by the hard Left) is frankly more dangerous, chilling, and authoritarian then anything that has been spewed by Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and O'reilly combined. Frankly, I find their hyperbole often over the top...but on a fair amount of topics I often agree with much of what those individuals have to say..... I guess in your world view....I should be what? Shipped off to a Gulag for holding such opinions?
The bottom line is that in a free country... ALL ideas, no matter how stupid or objectionable are deserving of the opportunity to be heard. That's what makes our country great. We don't have any God-Kings sitting around passing judgement upon what we are are allowed or not allowed to hear.....as if we are infants who are incapable of hearing things which might be harmful to us, unable to think for ourselves and unaccountable for our own actions.
If it isn't illegal to represent content in a game (at the time of release), why not provide the option? The choices of a character (READ: not a person) should encompass as many of those faced in life as possible for the ultimate RPG experience. Choices around religion, sexuality, etc should all be a part of that. This should include all lifestyles (that are not illegal). Note that you can perform in unusual relations but not get married to those individuals; some US states should be quite pleased. ;)
If these groups had, as a collective, twice the intellectual competence of its most rational and intelligent member, I doubt they would grasp that it is the repressive nature of said groups that spreads misinformation and fear to others. Personally, I feel that any social element functions properly as long as it does not restrict the freedoms and choices of others. We, as humans, have the right to explore our environment, to interact with others in peaceful and inquisitive ways, so as to better understand ourselves and those around us.
Societies function best when they envision each human being as someone looking to embrace the things around it, mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. If we allow WND or other groups to pollute our minds with propaganda that excludes and marginalizes others based on choices that have no impact on how we choose to live our lives, then we all suffer for it. Those things we recoil from, that we treat with disgust or fear, those are the things that will ultimately make us better people if we come to terms with them and can find a peaceful balance toward said encounters. It is WND that has been presented with a challenge in the game DA:O, and instead of taking the time to understand that this game promotes far more than "dirty gay sex," they have instead mislabeled these scenes as such without fully understanding the context that surrounds them.
Knowing this, it behooves us all to wish for the lifting of the veil of ignorance from the eyes of those who belong to WND or who share their views, and to do our best to share a more calm, reasoned approach to such material which may eventually reach the hearts and minds of those clouded by fear and ignorance. I would never suggest that someone believe homosexual relationships are "right," in a definitive sense, only that they should be allowed within the context of a person's individual right to choose what is and is not appropriate for him or herself. It is no business of mine what two consenting adults decide to do when it comes to intimacy, I only ask that they respect my right to not be exposed to it in a public venue.
Groups like WND don't worry me much, since I believe that we all strive for greater understanding and inclusion at a core level, one far more intrinsic to our nature than the fear and hate that WND is trying to spread.
First of all to claim deviance you have to accept that there is a norm that is being deviated from. And you just can't do that. People all over the world throughout all times have done different things to get off. The idea that a sexual behavior is deviant is false.
Those things are not morally wrong in every culture. I understand that since you think those things are deviant, you also think that 'right-thinking' people all over the world agree with you, but its just not the case.
Now lets assume for the sake of argument that there is a sexual norm, and the things you listed do indeed deviate from that norm. That still doesn't mean those things are wrong, or morally wrong. Different doesn't mean wrong. Also you can't show any harm, so protesting against gay people IS homophobia.
The permissiveness of the US secular culture does not extend to the rest of the world. These acts ARE morally wrong in almost every culture. In some cultures, it even goes so far as to be punished by the death penalty for those who get caught in such situations. If you disagree, go to Saudi Arabia and practice homosexuality publicly.
Despite your wishing otherwise, morally wrong is morally wrong. Those with moral standards have the right to protest against that which they find immoral. Protesting against public display of sexual deviance is not homophobia, it's an attempt to bring moral values to their community and dissuade those practicing deviant behavior from committing immoral acts. The harm is to both those witnessing the acts and those committing them. If you were to stop someone who was about to cut off their hand, would you be handectomyphobic? No, you'd be expressing concern for that person's well-being.
thats what i love about :)
The permissiveness of the US secular culture does not extend to the rest of the world. These acts ARE morally wrong in almost every culture. In some cultures, it even goes so far as to be punished by the death penalty for those who get caught in such situations. If you disagree, go to Saudi Arabia and practice homosexuality publicly.
Despite your wishing otherwise, morally wrong is morally wrong. Those with moral standards have the right to protest against that which they find immoral. Protesting against public display of sexual deviance is not homophobia, it's an attempt to bring moral values to their community and dissuade those practicing deviant behavior from committing immoral acts. The harm is to both those witnessing the acts and those committing them. If you were to stop someone who was about to cut off their hand, would you be handectomyphobic? No, you'd be expressing concern for that person's well-being.
That's not even remotely true.
Romans, Greeks and all sorts of other cultures throughout history were completely OK with homosexuality. Historically speaking, in Western culture at least, this moral outcry is a relatively (IE: in the hundreds of years) new development.
Sure, there are cultures where you cannot openly be gay, but there are also cultures where you cannot eat certain animals on certain days of the week. Every culture has its quirks.
But to paint that with such a complete brush is absolutely absurd from a historical point of view.
The fact is, modern science should tell people thinking homosexuality is a choice or immoral is ridiculous. Biologically speaking, 10% of ducks are gay. Get over it.
If you are a consenting adult, whom you choose to have sex with is nobodies business as long as you don’t do it in the street, scaring horses and young children.
Isn't Children of Hurin the one his son assembled from his notes?
If so, it's possible that's why it's the one example of it in the guy's works.
Well, the destructive side of "desire" IS a strongly recurring theme in Tolkiens works....it's just that it's often more about other flavors of desire (power, wealth, security, glory, etc) then sex. However you can see hints of the dark side of sexual desire even in LOTR. For instance look at the character of Grima and some of his motivations for betraying Rohan.
The thing about Tolkien is that he likes to be subtle in his writing (IMO).....where other authors will tend to hit you over the head with explicit descriptions of things...often times Tolkien just hints at it.
Isn't Children of Hurin the one his son assembled from his notes?
If so, it's possible that's why it's the one example of it in the guy's works.
Yes it was assembled by his son Christopher from his notes, rough drafts, and a couple of unfinished epic poems. However, without giving too much away, the incest portion of the story is so integral to the plot that I don't see Christopher coming up with that on his own.
Have I derailed this thread enough?
I didn't have a problem with any of the relationships in the game. It was my choice as to who I wanted to be with and whether or not I remained faithful to that person. This is the 21st century and I dont think same-sex relationships should be a big deal anymore. Heck it was not that long ago that conservatives would get all bent out of shape if a black man dated a white woman.
That being said, the "sex" scenes in the game are actually rather lame. In Mass Effect, the scene seemed more fluid motion like real people would. It also seemed more "natural" as in the way two people who cared about each other, and thought they would be dead tomorrow, would act. The DAO scenes are more cuddle than sex, and are identical in almost every way. Seems like Bioware just changed the head and body type (male/female) for the scene. This is why the lesbian scene looks "off" for lack of a better word.
Maybe Bioware was cowed by the negative press over the ME sex scene so made a half-a** cuddle scene in DAO? Considering that in virtually every trailer for DAO we saw that we could score with Morrigan, when we actually got to that point it seemed quite a let down. Not that I was looking forward to some "digital bewbies" mind you, it's just the scene in DAO wasn't as good as the one in ME, like it didn't fit right. It seemed thrown on as an afterthought for the T&A sales pitch.
I couldn't care less what a mature rated game contains. Its the parent's responsibility to know what the kiddies are whatching.
This attitude on the part of World News Daily reflects how little veting is done. They get a juicy topic and run with it. Check it out first??? Naaa, this puppy is hot!
Assumptions are made based on pre-concieved notions about what is going on....much like the above quote!!!!!
World News isn't a 'radical right wing publication. It is a liberal...and I use the term loosely :P.
Quote fron World News Daily info on a search:
A daily round-up of the latest international news from msnbc.com and its partners, including NBC News, Newsweek and the Washington Post. With features and analysis by NBC reporters ...
These are hardly right wing pubs. It would seem Khalathwyr has the same problem with judging something based on his/her own blind bias
Every "controversy" that I seem to see lately is in relation to homosexuality.
Are you serious? What year are we living in?
Why is it that having this hardcore aggressive games are somehow let by and sex is "evil"?
o.O Why the hell do we have the stupid rating system if people are going to b.... and moan regardless?
It's sad, it's annoying, just get over it, seriously.
You can't blame companies for taking out a game which plainly states the content it contains.
People make it seem like children have absolutely no control over their actions, and that is utter bs.
I couldn't care less what a mature rated game contains. Its the parent's responsibility to know what the kiddies are whatching.
This attitude on the part of World News Daily reflects how little veting is done. They get a juicy topic and run with it. Check it out first??? Naaa, this puppy is hot!
Assumptions are made based on pre-concieved notions about what is going on....much like the above quote!!!!!
World News isn't a 'radical right wing publication. It is a liberal...and I use the term loosely :P.
Quote fron World News Daily info on a search:
A daily round-up of the latest international news from msnbc.com and its partners, including NBC News, Newsweek and the Washington Post. With features and analysis by NBC reporters ...
These are hardly right wing pubs. It would seem Khalathwyr has the same problem with judging something based on his/her own blind bias
This is just another "news story" to keep people from thinking about all the good things that socialism has brought to the world. :)
I couldn't care less what a mature rated game contains. Its the parent's responsibility to know what the kiddies are whatching.
This attitude on the part of World News Daily reflects how little veting is done. They get a juicy topic and run with it. Check it out first??? Naaa, this puppy is hot!
Assumptions are made based on pre-concieved notions about what is going on....much like the above quote!!!!!
World News isn't a 'radical right wing publication. It is a liberal...and I use the term loosely :P.
Quote fron World News Daily info on a search:
A daily round-up of the latest international news from msnbc.com and its partners, including NBC News, Newsweek and the Washington Post. With features and analysis by NBC reporters ...
These are hardly right wing pubs. It would seem Khalathwyr has the same problem with judging something based on his/her own blind bias
Not that it terribly matters, but WND is very much a conservative outlet. It features Ann Coulture! :)
That said, that point is largely irrelevant. I can think of plenty of liberal politicians who would have freaked out about this game too.
My main character is a female mage and I ended up selecting dialog in camp that led to a kiss between her and on of the female party members. It was the "Joan of Arc" character who thinks she hears "The Maker" speak to her from time to time.
Well in regards to what's right and wrong, seems a subjective, opinionated thing... I mean right and wrong are not absolutes as these things vary from society to society, from country to country, and from decade to decade.
In the 40's there were no bikinis, and to show leg above the knee was considered wrong...
As far as having a choice in dialog outcomes, and story arc forking, it's a refreshing change to see that actualy dialog can make a difference and offer the gamer variety and what seems like a true "cause and effect" to the choices made, wether they are personal between the npcs, or part of the greater, main story arc.
Also, I don't like the idea of being limited by right-wing conservatives. If they don't like the ideas and/or content of a game, then don't buy it; and don't take that choice away from me...
This thread is so long im not sure if this has been coverd BUT,
what about the game/designers intention of making a story. Bioware has always been about making fantastic stories.
Relationships are part of stories. Friendships and romances are key elements in telling stories. Bioware has evolved telling better interactive stories with moral implications. Sex and violence are key components of great stories. They did not stand still and remain the same they evolved. Bioware has put the choices there for the players to make, important choices for your character. Maybe you kill someone, maybe you help the needy, maybe you fall in love with your friend, maybe you fall in love with your same sex friend.
These are choices given to us by great story tellers. The want the best interactive story they can make for you and me. They feel the more choices we have available to us, the better the story.
Bioware are interactive story artists
Art isn't smut.
HA HA
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
A certain responsibility comes with "free speech". If you and others can't comprehend that then "free speech" becomes dangerous. Can it Political correctness, or whatever you like, but there is a responsibility that comes with using words.
As stated by Edward Bulwer-Lytton: The pen is mightier than the sword.
The words of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and O'reilly have drawn an immeasurable amount of blood.
The answer to speech you deplore is more speech not censorship. This is the argument that every demagogue uses to silence his or her opponents. The ACLU defended the right of the Klan to march in Skokie, no matter how despicable the Klan is, they still enjoy the right of free speech guaranteed by the Constitution. If you don’t understand that, you understand nothing about “Freedom”.
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.
Noam Chomsky
The very aim and end of our institutions is just this: that we may think what we like and say what we think. * Oliver Wendell Holmes
We live in oppressive times. We have, as a nation, become our own thought police; but instead of calling the process by which we limit our expression of dissent and wonder "censorship," we call it "concern for commercial viability." · * David Mamet
I am of course confident that I will fulfill my tasks as a writer in all circumstances--from my grave even more successfully and more irrefutably than in my lifetime. No one can bar the road to truth, and to advance its cause I am prepared to accept even death. But may it be that repeated lessons will finally teach us not to stop the writer's pen during his lifetime? At no time has this ennobled our history. * Alexander Solzhenitsyn
I understand more about freedom than you know. But my time in the Army isn't the topic here. Please, by all means, continue to justify your embrace of hate with quotes that I'll not agree had such hate in mind when stated. There certainly is a line of demarkation between Chomsky's dislike of the Vietnam War and the rhetoric the 4 horsemen I mention above spew.
And as for you harping on the point I want to censor anyone, you first need to comprehend what you read, I never said to do such to anyone. I would appreciate it in kind if you would end the accusations of such. Quite the contrary, I'd prefer those of you who enjoy the hate speech to be quite vocal. It's always good to know which way is downrange.
The permissiveness of the US secular culture does not extend to the rest of the world. These acts ARE morally wrong in almost every culture. In some cultures, it even goes so far as to be punished by the death penalty for those who get caught in such situations. If you disagree, go to Saudi Arabia and practice homosexuality publicly.
Despite your wishing otherwise, morally wrong is morally wrong. Those with moral standards have the right to protest against that which they find immoral. Protesting against public display of sexual deviance is not homophobia, it's an attempt to bring moral values to their community and dissuade those practicing deviant behavior from committing immoral acts. The harm is to both those witnessing the acts and those committing them. If you were to stop someone who was about to cut off their hand, would you be handectomyphobic? No, you'd be expressing concern for that person's well-being.
That's not even remotely true.
Romans, Greeks and all sorts of other cultures throughout history were completely OK with homosexuality. Historically speaking, in Western culture at least, this moral outcry is a relatively (IE: in the hundreds of years) new development.
Sure, there are cultures where you cannot openly be gay, but there are also cultures where you cannot eat certain animals on certain days of the week. Every culture has its quirks.
But to paint that with such a complete brush is absolutely absurd from a historical point of view.
The fact is, modern science should tell people thinking homosexuality is a choice or immoral is ridiculous. Biologically speaking, 10% of ducks are gay. Get over it.
Your entire pro-deviance argument is that humans are incapable of thinking beyond their sexual organs, so we should just have sex with anything that moves, regardless of morality, social consequences, marital consequences, or medical consequences. That's absurd. If that's really how you feel, all I can say is maybe you should grow up and stop thinking with what's in your pants. "If it feels good, do it" will hurt you and anyone close to you. Look how well this attitude is going over for Tiger Woods and his family. Use Tiger's experience as an example that this lifestyle is wrong and change your attitude while you can.
Historically, you are wrong. Roman and Greek culture didn't start out so open. In fact, historians have argued that the excessive lack of morality towards the end of those ancient cultures were what tipped the balance and caused those cultures to fail.
I couldn't care less what a mature rated game contains. Its the parent's responsibility to know what the kiddies are whatching.
This attitude on the part of World News Daily reflects how little veting is done. They get a juicy topic and run with it. Check it out first??? Naaa, this puppy is hot!
Assumptions are made based on pre-concieved notions about what is going on....much like the above quote!!!!!
World News isn't a 'radical right wing publication. It is a liberal...and I use the term loosely :P.
Quote fron World News Daily info on a search:
A daily round-up of the latest international news from msnbc.com and its partners, including NBC News, Newsweek and the Washington Post. With features and analysis by NBC reporters ...
These are hardly right wing pubs. It would seem Khalathwyr has the same problem with judging something based on his/her own blind bias
I have no problem judging any more than you do. Entities that are so frontwardly religious are most time right-wing. Just because they pick up news from those sites doesn't mean they are liberal. They could be picking it up in order to refute it. Admittedly I don't know as I have desire to go to the site. Right, left, fanaticism is bad, to me, no matter the direction.
Oh, and as you don't know me, you can lump yourself into the category you just through me in as you committed the same act.
This is just another "news story" to keep people from thinking about all the good things that socialism has brought to the world. :)
Yeah, cause you're an authority on the socialism.
"Duck and cover"
Sorry pops, the 1950s are gone. Socialism, just like the beloved Free Market Capitalism we have, are all viable and all dependent on the power mongers running them. You have a corrupt elite running them, and they all are doomed to fail, which I think history has proven now.
To blame the system shows you know nothing about the system. It's the people implementing them that caused them to fail.
@battleaxe: You use the word morality and deviant too freely based on what I see as a limited understanding of both. Morality is a social convention of right and wrong, not an absolute understanding of right and wrong. Morality and morally acceptable behavior varies from culture to culture, and within the same cultures as they evolve over time. Using morality to make your argument pretty much invalidates your argument from the outset, as generally accepted morals are by no means comprehensive, or even that enlightened in most cases. Morals tend to exist primarily to help people interact in positive ways for the betterment of all. I don't see how your short-sighted views are in any way, shape or form mirroring the morality you stand behind.
As for deviant behaviors, anything that deviates from a moral standard can be termed "deviant," but again, only in how it relates to the subjective views of right and wrong within a culture. While deviant is a powerful word on the surface, at the core, it's as hollow as morality when you fully understand the meaning of it.
This is just another "news story" to keep people from thinking about all the good things that socialism has brought to the world. :)
Yeah, cause you're an authority on the socialism.
"Duck and cover"
Sorry pops, the 1950s are gone. Socialism, just like the beloved Free Market Capitalism we have, are all viable and all dependent on the power mongers running them. You have a corrupt elite running them, and they all are doomed to fail, which I think history has proven now.
To blame the system shows you know nothing about the system. It's the people implementing them that caused them to fail.
yeah im stuck in the past i guess, i see how well socialism has worked and cant wait for Obama's corruption to make it fail here.
That's not even remotely true.
Romans, Greeks and all sorts of other cultures throughout history were completely OK with homosexuality. Historically speaking, in Western culture at least, this moral outcry is a relatively (IE: in the hundreds of years) new development.
Sure, there are cultures where you cannot openly be gay, but there are also cultures where you cannot eat certain animals on certain days of the week. Every culture has its quirks.
But to paint that with such a complete brush is absolutely absurd from a historical point of view.
The fact is, modern science should tell people thinking homosexuality is a choice or immoral is ridiculous. Biologically speaking, 10% of ducks are gay. Get over it.
Your entire pro-deviance argument is that humans are incapable of thinking beyond their sexual organs, so we should just have sex with anything that moves, regardless of morality, social consequences, marital consequences, or medical consequences. That's absurd. If that's really how you feel, all I can say is maybe you should grow up and stop thinking with what's in your pants. "If it feels good, do it" will hurt you and anyone close to you. Look how well this attitude is going over for Tiger Woods and his family. Use Tiger's experience as an example that this lifestyle is wrong and change your attitude while you can.
Historically, you are wrong. Roman and Greek culture didn't start out so open. In fact, historians have argued that the excessive lack of morality towards the end of those ancient cultures were what tipped the balance and caused those cultures to fail.
No, actually Dana is right. Their cultures were indeed very open about it. I've spent the last year and a half to two years (as a European History major) talking about the history and culture of that part of the world, as well as others. Never once did homosexual relations come up as a reason for their downfall. It was, oh, I don't know, the invading armies from other cultures, some of which practiced homosexuality as well, that overran them, in short.
Man, it's so wild to experience hate disguised in so many ways.
Yeah, cause you're an authority on the socialism.
"Duck and cover"
Sorry pops, the 1950s are gone. Socialism, just like the beloved Free Market Capitalism we have, are all viable and all dependent on the power mongers running them. You have a corrupt elite running them, and they all are doomed to fail, which I think history has proven now.
To blame the system shows you know nothing about the system. It's the people implementing them that caused them to fail.
yeah im stuck in the past i guess, i see how well socialism has worked and cant wait for Obama's corruption to make it fail here.
Yet you're in complete denial of free market capitalism, with a joke for regulation, has failed equally. Nope, don't want to talk about that. Ignore the man behind the screen, lol!
At least you're honest about it. More than I can say for some of the other yokels in here.
Um, in fairness, I don't think you'll find a single liberal person affiliated with that site. A spade is a spade and if there is one set of people who harbor the most hate for any kind of change (social, economic, whatever) it's the right wing folks. You don't see liberals or moderates setting up sites bashing people for their lifestyles. No, they only bash conservatives (those that want to, not all of them do). Why? Because Conservatives started in with the hate long ago.
"Let he who is without Sin cast the first stone"...
Man, conservatives started picking up rocks the moment this was first said looking to hit someone.
I have a hard time with the above statement. I figure I am pretty much a conservative, but lean toward pro-choice and have no problems with homosexuals at all. However, I am pretty sure that we don't have enough data to prove Global Warming, and I think Obama's healthcare plan is a really bad idea.
What am I?
The point is, "Conservatives" don't have a monopoly on hate - the liberals throw around more than their fair share also. Example? Bush is a 'moron', Quayle is an idiot, Palin...well, she's been called all sorts of things. The treatment of the so-called conservative leaders has been at least as hateful as anything that has come out of Glenn Beck's mouth.
As for change....the Fair Tax movement is deemed conservative at the moment - and it would be a very MAJOR change (and one I support).
Well...I've had my say. Off to download the nudity patch :-)
Sure, but in the context of this discussion they certainly "threw the first punches". As for the change comment, it is my fault for not clarifying. Change that helps the rich get richer, makes middle class take a sharp punch in the nose and the poor stay poorer is good and dandy for conservatives. Ironically, the vast majority of them fall into the middle class yet they continuously vote for measures that hurt them. That's a research paper right there.
As for Big O's healthcare plan, yeah, it's not perfect, but it's akin to what they have in Great Britain and Canada and they certainly are in better shape than we are. If data really were the point of Conservatives, they shut up on this one and vote yes.
But it's not. The facts don't mean a thing to either side, really. It's about holding the party line, not making a better country.
Oh, and that's the thing that gets me. Your last comment, though I'm not aiming at you in specific. I'm aiming at the folks who run that site. I can guarantee you if an FBI computer forensics team did a sweep of their work and home computers you'd find some of the dirtiest pornographic material ever. Hypocrits.
In fact, that's something I'd like to see. Random inspections of home and office of the morality patrol entities of the world. You want to preach it and clog up my air space, then you better be a Paragon of virtue. You linger for more than a second in the bra section of a JC Penny magazine and I want to know about it cause that's SIN.
Ask the people suffering who wait for months for major procedures how wonderful the social health care is? The US does in fact have the best health care available which is why the EXTREMELY wealthy from those system come here when afflicted with something greater than a cold. Now let's talk about how the 85% of people in this county who do have health care would be faced with an ever growing number of restrictions when the rationing begins. Oh and who pays for it all? Oh I forgot the rich do because they are mean and selfish for making all that money, and putting people to work, and creating industry that in turns creates jobs. How vile are they to show initiative and utilize a system that allows them to prosper? It's much better than we blame someone else for life's situation. It's the schools fault, or my upbringing or hundreds of other excuses.
I am proud to be part of a system that allows a person from any background, race etc to succeed based on hard work and initiative! Those principles not handouts produce a strong prosperous society. I'm going to offend some of you with one of those nasty Biblical statements. "Give a man a fish and you feed him once, teach him how to fish and you feed him forever." What does that mean. It means you empower people by helping them help themselves. Everyone in life needs a helping hand and all of us should be willing to lend it. It does not mean that some should be totally supported by others indefinitely.
OMG I can't believe I'm making a post like this on this site! Oh and DA is a fine game.
Yeah, cause you're an authority on the socialism.
"Duck and cover"
Sorry pops, the 1950s are gone. Socialism, just like the beloved Free Market Capitalism we have, are all viable and all dependent on the power mongers running them. You have a corrupt elite running them, and they all are doomed to fail, which I think history has proven now.
To blame the system shows you know nothing about the system. It's the people implementing them that caused them to fail.
yeah im stuck in the past i guess, i see how well socialism has worked and cant wait for Obama's corruption to make it fail here.
Yet you're in complete denial of free market capitalism, with a joke for regulation, has failed equally. Nope, don't want to talk about that. Ignore the man behind the screen, lol!
At least you're honest about it. More than I can say for some of the other yokels in here.
I dont know how the U.S. became the richest country in the world without embracing socialism. Maybe you can explain to me how it is that western europe is doing so well and yet demanding money for the U.N. and the farce known as global warming?
Bottom line for me is that DA:O is a great game.
Sure there is a small "sex" aspect to the game. My first playthrough was 70 odd hours, of that there was maby 15-20 mins total devoted to the "sex" aspect. Second playthrough was a little under 50 hours and again maby 15-20 mins total on the "sex" aspect. Shocker.
Dunno why people are so worked up about it. Hell you can even just tap "Esc" to skip the cut-sceen anyway (not that its much of a cut sceen .. couple of avatars in underware whoop-dee-do)
Its such a tiny small aspect of the game it really does not even bare mentioning except as a side diversion from the main game. The dialog options require you to be beloved by your NPC companion which reqiures (Usually) compleating thier side-quests and gift giving along with the correct dialog choices. Its not something that the avrage hack'n'slash player will even come across. You can play the whole game and never even bother to talk to your NPC companions. Makes no real difference except they gain a slight buff (4 stages) for liking you more if your converstations go well or they take the hump and leave your party if they dont.
Its all 100% optional content. None of it is required to play the game.
Hell I am suprised this "news site" was'ent as offended by some of the random conversations that your NPCs have as you wander around. These are based on which NPCs you have in your party currently and how far along in dialog you have gotten with them OR where you are in the world OR what quests your doing etc. After three play throughs I've still yet to hear them all and some are quite amusing and racey. Zev talking to Wynn about her "Magical Breasts" or Org talking to Alistier about "Polishing his weapon" then theres Org telling Wynn he'd like to "Take her around the back .. if he was'ent locked up in his armor" .. these conversations happen just as your wandering around .. so no this is deff NOT a kids game. Its all implied but very amusing stuff ... whenever my party members started chatting to each other I'd always stop dead to see what they have to say.
Over all the game is extreemly well done and offers many many hours of playtime. Doing all the quests and side quests for the first time will take over 50 hours (70 for me because I am a compleationist and played on Hard - Very Difficult from the get go) and it was money well spent for me. Usually I dont bother with single player games .. currently theres no MMO I am interested in playing (Or replaying as the case may be) and this game is a great diversion.
You can grab DO:A for about $30 online now .. buy it and judge for yourself. If you liked BG or NWN you'll prob enjoy this one too.
www.youtube.com/watch
yeah im stuck in the past i guess, i see how well socialism has worked and cant wait for Obama's corruption to make it fail here.
Yet you're in complete denial of free market capitalism, with a joke for regulation, has failed equally. Nope, don't want to talk about that. Ignore the man behind the screen, lol!
At least you're honest about it. More than I can say for some of the other yokels in here.
I dont know how the U.S. became the richest country in the world without embracing socialism. Maybe you can explain to me how it is that western europe is doing so well and yet demanding money for the U.N. and the farce known as global warming?
Seems like the difference between socialism and capitalism seems marginal at best. Seems mostly different on paper, but when you take a look at america at closer view, it's actually quite a bit socialisitic in many aspects. Sorry just had to add my 2cents into both of you're interesting debate.
I'm actually not afraid of more socialism in our country, I mean if America needs it, then we should adapt... One thing you can say about Americans that seems historically true, is that we are good at changing, adapting and evolving as a country... generally speaking ofc.
yeah im stuck in the past i guess, i see how well socialism has worked and cant wait for Obama's corruption to make it fail here.
Yet you're in complete denial of free market capitalism, with a joke for regulation, has failed equally. Nope, don't want to talk about that. Ignore the man behind the screen, lol!
At least you're honest about it. More than I can say for some of the other yokels in here.
I dont know how the U.S. became the richest country in the world without embracing socialism. Maybe you can explain to me how it is that western europe is doing so well and yet demanding money for the U.N. and the farce known as global warming?
Seems like the difference between socialism and capitalism seems marginal at best. Seems mostly different on paper, but when you take a look at america at closer view, it's actually quite a bit socialisitic in many aspects. Sorry just had to add my 2cents into both of you're interesting debate.
I'm actually not afraid of more socialism in our country, I mean if America needs it, then we should adapt... One thing you can say about Americans that seems historically true, is that we are good at changing, adapting and evolving as a country... generally speaking ofc.
I agree it takes a balance of the two. My problem with the current administration is too much power. I do not like either party to have as much power as the liberals have at this time. The presidency and both houses is too much power to wield,be it a left or right wing administration.
I dont know how the U.S. became the richest country in the world without embracing socialism. Maybe you can explain to me how it is that western europe is doing so well and yet demanding money for the U.N. and the farce known as global warming?
I'd love to, but this, turning into a good conversation, is really off topic for the thread (not that we haven't just butchered that to already) and is something that I would do much better at in face to face conversation. There's a reason China is still kicking and that many of the countries in SE Asia still support the socialist model.
As for the global warming thing there is no data I could ever show you, no matter how true and accurate it was, that would convince you it was happening. That and I'm no scientist. I am a hunter, though and I can tell you the last couple of winters here in Texas have been...odd. We have a huge flock of Canadian Geese that used to migrate through here like clockwork. They'd arrive in late October, early November. Well, last year they came through in Mid November and this year they arrived 3 days ago.
Be that as it may, I don't expect people who didn't grow up in the country or who don't hunt/fish to put much stock in it.
Yet you're in complete denial of free market capitalism, with a joke for regulation, has failed equally. Nope, don't want to talk about that. Ignore the man behind the screen, lol!
At least you're honest about it. More than I can say for some of the other yokels in here.
I dont know how the U.S. became the richest country in the world without embracing socialism. Maybe you can explain to me how it is that western europe is doing so well and yet demanding money for the U.N. and the farce known as global warming?
Seems like the difference between socialism and capitalism seems marginal at best. Seems mostly different on paper, but when you take a look at america at closer view, it's actually quite a bit socialisitic in many aspects. Sorry just had to add my 2cents into both of you're interesting debate.
I'm actually not afraid of more socialism in our country, I mean if America needs it, then we should adapt... One thing you can say about Americans that seems historically true, is that we are good at changing, adapting and evolving as a country... generally speaking ofc.
I agree it takes a balance of the two. My problem with the current administration is too much power. I do not like either party to have as much power as the liberals have at this time. The presidency and both houses is too much power to wield,be it a left or right wing administration.
Honestly, I don't even know why I'm a Democrat anymore. I mean I look at this whole "Bipartisan politics" more like a maffia taking turns running our country, and making some scratch for friends and fellow party memebers. Maybe if America should have 4 or 5 parties and share the power, stuff actually might get done. It just seems to me that after years of Democrats vs. Republicans seems very shallow to me these days... It seems like they are just pretending to create divisive issues to keep ppl distracted so that they can share power back and forth,... election after election... and yet appear as they both parties are "fighting the good fight" so to speak... Maybe I've grown cynical in my old age, but I think it's a scam both parties perpetuate a monopoly of power by sharing the office and senate. It all just seems disegenuous. And I would probably join an Idenpendant party but, most are just a mix of conservative democrats and liberal republicans... seems like there's no true 3rd Party to choose from.
Sorry I know I got a bit off topic with my diatribe.
I'd love to, but this, turning into a good conversation, is really off topic for the thread (not that we haven't just butchered that to already) and is something that I would do much better at in face to face conversation. There's a reason China is still kicking and that many of the countries in SE Asia still support the socialist model.
As for the global warming thing there is no data I could ever show you, no matter how true and accurate it was, that would convince you it was happening. That and I'm no scientist. I am a hunter, though and I can tell you the last couple of winters here in Texas have been...odd. We have a huge flock of Canadian Geese that used to migrate through here like clockwork. They'd arrive in late October, early November. Well, last year they came through in Mid November and this year they arrived 3 days ago.
Be that as it may, I don't expect people who didn't grow up in the country or who don't hunt/fish to put much stock in it.
I dont doubt that the climate does change. I read an article about how the average temperature of Mars has risen as well. What i dispute is that it isnt a natural thing. That and the fact that Al Gore has made a pile of money since he started his crusade. The best explanation I have heard is that every so many thousands of years the planets in the solar system align in way that creates a pull which shifts the earth, and I would assume the other planets as well, on its axis and creates a change in climate. Like you i am not a scientist either but Al Gore and the believers being able to combat an act of nature is ludicrous to me and only points to greed or arrogance and in Al's case i would say both.
Hey, it may not mean much, but I agree with you 100%. I voted Democrat because the Repulicans had it for 8 years and so it was, in my view, time to give the other side a shot. Some Repubs say W wasn't a fiscal conservative. Fine, I won't argue. I do have issue with the rest of you standing by him when he wasn't so fiscally conservative, though, lol.
So yeah, I'd love nothing more than to see a 3rd and 4th party rise to prominence here. I'd also like to see the Senate term limit dropped from 6 years to 4 or 3.
I think we can officially declare this thread 110% derailed.
Not that the conversation is bad just totally off topic.
Hey, it may not mean much, but I agree with you 100%. I voted Democrat because the Repulicans had it for 8 years and so it was, in my view, time to give the other side a shot. Some Repubs say W wasn't a fiscal conservative. Fine, I won't argue. I do have issue with the rest of you standing by him when he wasn't so fiscally conservative, though, lol.
So yeah, I'd love nothing more than to see a 3rd and 4th party rise to prominence here. I'd also like to see the Senate term limit dropped from 6 years to 4 or 3.
I have to say that what you say scares me.
You voted for the other side to basically give them a shot? Plain and simple, thats dumb thinking or being brainwashed.
I vote for whoever I feel will best support myself and my family over the long haul. Also who has the values I have. I dont vote party line for the sake of seeing what they can do...
Bush was not a fiscal conservative, but I stand by him as he made many of the right choices. But he did bleed money out. The current administration is making a joke of Bush's spending though.
Also, to be on topic, The game does promote homesexual activity if it provides a reward to cheat and engage in such activity (acheivments).
I have to say that what you say scares me.
You voted for the other side to basically give them a shot? Plain and simple, thats dumb thinking or being brainwashed.
I vote for whoever I feel will best support myself and my family over the long haul. Also who has the values I have. I dont vote party line for the sake of seeing what they can do...
Bush was not a fiscal conservative, but I stand by him as he made many of the right choices. But he did bleed money out. The current administration is making a joke of Bush's spending though.
Also, to be on topic, The game does promote homesexual activity if it provides a reward to cheat and engage in such activity (acheivments).
Oh good lord... no comment...
I have to say that what you say scares me.
You voted for the other side to basically give them a shot? Plain and simple, thats dumb thinking or being brainwashed.
I vote for whoever I feel will best support myself and my family over the long haul. Also who has the values I have. I dont vote party line for the sake of seeing what they can do...
Bush was not a fiscal conservative, but I stand by him as he made many of the right choices. But he did bleed money out. The current administration is making a joke of Bush's spending though.
Also, to be on topic, The game does promote homesexual activity if it provides a reward to cheat and engage in such activity (acheivments).
Your entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to believe that anyone who believed bush did anything good for this country is just as stupid and brain-free as he.
Yes, it was careless of me to state what I did in the manner I did. There were other reasons as well. And yes, one sides ideas screwed the pooch let's see if the other can do better isn't an invalid line of thought. Especially if the next in line proves to only be more of the same of what you already had.
That's not even remotely true.
Romans, Greeks and all sorts of other cultures throughout history were completely OK with homosexuality. Historically speaking, in Western culture at least, this moral outcry is a relatively (IE: in the hundreds of years) new development.
Sure, there are cultures where you cannot openly be gay, but there are also cultures where you cannot eat certain animals on certain days of the week. Every culture has its quirks.
But to paint that with such a complete brush is absolutely absurd from a historical point of view.
The fact is, modern science should tell people thinking homosexuality is a choice or immoral is ridiculous. Biologically speaking, 10% of ducks are gay. Get over it.
Your entire pro-deviance argument is that humans are incapable of thinking beyond their sexual organs, so we should just have sex with anything that moves, regardless of morality, social consequences, marital consequences, or medical consequences. That's absurd. If that's really how you feel, all I can say is maybe you should grow up and stop thinking with what's in your pants. "If it feels good, do it" will hurt you and anyone close to you. Look how well this attitude is going over for Tiger Woods and his family. Use Tiger's experience as an example that this lifestyle is wrong and change your attitude while you can.
Historically, you are wrong. Roman and Greek culture didn't start out so open. In fact, historians have argued that the excessive lack of morality towards the end of those ancient cultures were what tipped the balance and caused those cultures to fail.
No, actually Dana is right. Their cultures were indeed very open about it. I've spent the last year and a half to two years (as a European History major) talking about the history and culture of that part of the world, as well as others. Never once did homosexual relations come up as a reason for their downfall. It was, oh, I don't know, the invading armies from other cultures, some of which practiced homosexuality as well, that overran them, in short.
Man, it's so wild to experience hate disguised in so many ways.
Exactly, coincidentally, I was also a European History major.
There are writers who claim moral decay led to the decay of both civilizations, the other guy is right in that, but he leaves out that they're mostly discredited by serious historians as people with a specific agenda to drive.
Take Rome, they actually reigned it in over the last few hundred years if anything. The really crazy stuff was in the pre-Imperial days, or the early Imperial days.
I don't think anyone is promoting adultery (heck, even Dragon Age punishes you for sleeping around) or bestiality, but you lumping homosexuality in with those is downright offensive.
I have to say that what you say scares me.
You voted for the other side to basically give them a shot? Plain and simple, thats dumb thinking or being brainwashed.
I vote for whoever I feel will best support myself and my family over the long haul. Also who has the values I have. I dont vote party line for the sake of seeing what they can do...
Bush was not a fiscal conservative, but I stand by him as he made many of the right choices. But he did bleed money out. The current administration is making a joke of Bush's spending though.
Also, to be on topic, The game does promote homesexual activity if it provides a reward to cheat and engage in such activity (acheivments).
Your entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to believe that anyone who believed bush did anything good for this country is just as stupid and brain-free as he.
Yes, it was careless of me to state what I did in the manner I did. There were other reasons as well. And yes, one sides ideas screwed the pooch let's see if the other can do better isn't an invalid line of thought. Especially if the next in line proves to only be more of the same of what you already had.
It's funny how life is, he didn't like, or so it seems so, that you voted for another party just because Republicans had it for 8 years, and... Life is funny yup, he didn't like that reasonning while I actually admired you for it. Shows that you're flexible in your thinking... personally I don't vote party-line, I vote depending on what the individual candidate has said, and what they stand for (or seem to stand for). Anyways to stay on track... I like DAO's evolving story arc, that it allows for choices, and not lack of choices as most rpgs produced tend to show. Variety is the spice of life afterall.
Anyone wanna point out the polygons are gay? Not real people? Even so. I still support these copulating same sex binary beings right to marry!
I like seperate but equal personally... I think the word "marraige" is more a straight, cultural identifier, and it's just seems sneaky that gays are trying to steal that cultural identifier for thier own needs.
What would solve this issue would be to make "Partnership" equal under the eyes of the law when put side-by-side with "Marraige".
When you think about it, by trying to adopt "Marraige" from a straight cultral world view, you dienfranchise your own cultural identity... it's like they are throwing away "Partnership" and hurting their own gay cultural markers and identifiers.
To stay on topic, I got my main character, female mage, to kiss the one of the female npcs during a camp.
Marriage is a legal term and it's been used throughout legally recorded history to bind contractually one male to another. In many instances in modern Western society as we know it.
Separate but equal didn't really work for races, I think that's more of an identifying factor than sexuality.
But also on topic.
This is a holier than thou tablog waiting for feeders to give them something to bitch about and fearmonger. Bioware's a leading fighter on the war against our Constitution and others forcing baseless values on others. Having the gay options availability for players to explore if they're so inclined, or avoid likewise, is the best thing they could have done for our country.
Equality for all.
i love watching the girl on girl action
keep it coming!
I'd love to, but this, turning into a good conversation, is really off topic for the thread (not that we haven't just butchered that to already) and is something that I would do much better at in face to face conversation. There's a reason China is still kicking and that many of the countries in SE Asia still support the socialist model.
As for the global warming thing there is no data I could ever show you, no matter how true and accurate it was, that would convince you it was happening. That and I'm no scientist. I am a hunter, though and I can tell you the last couple of winters here in Texas have been...odd. We have a huge flock of Canadian Geese that used to migrate through here like clockwork. They'd arrive in late October, early November. Well, last year they came through in Mid November and this year they arrived 3 days ago.
Be that as it may, I don't expect people who didn't grow up in the country or who don't hunt/fish to put much stock in it.
Totaly off topic but....
1) Socialism & Capitalism.... depends upon what you mean by "viable". In terms of stability, Feudalism & Divine Right Monarchy would have both systems beat in spades....as they endured for many centuries over large parts of the globe and still exist is some form in many parts of the world today. They were stable....doesn't exactly mean that they were particularly pleasant systems to live under for many folks however.
The idea that systems are all equally viable and it's all about implimentation is quite flawed. Any engineer will tell you that and it holds equally true in ploitics and government as most other fields. There are 2 parts to determining how well any particular system will perform... Design & Implimentation. The best implimentation in the world won't save a flawed design.... although poor implimentation certainly can astro-turf a great design.
I certainly won't pretend that capitalism doesn't have it's share of problems.... but socialism suffers some very, very difficult to address design flaws that almost doom it as a system. The most basic is the idea that government (and hence government officials) can be entrusted to determine what is a "just and fair" equality of outcome for each and every individual. Simply put... "power corrupts" and entrusting government with the mandate to determine equality of outcomes (and thereby the power to enforce them) is kinda like handing a drunken sailor, a bottle of whiskey, a credit card, the keys to a fast car and Alysa Milano's home address.... it's an exercize almost certain to end badly.
Another problem is the implied notion that individuals needs, desired outcomes, etc are roughly the same and that a government official or "society" is in a better position to judge an individuals situation then the individual themselves. You also have issues with a lack of merit based rewards systems....and lack of consequences for risk/reward decisions.
I won't get into it too much but suffice to say, that there are real problems with the design that go beyond simple implimentation.
One of the biggest strengths of the American system of government is the concept of "limited government". That is that there are limits to the powers that government is allowed to legitimately excercize (This is a core value espoused by many flavors of modern day Conservatism, btw). The idea being that the accumlation of significant power in any single entity will inevitably corrupt that entity and be abused. By imposing firm limits on the extent of governments power over individuals, the idea is that you will reduce the degree to which governments can abuse thier powers.
Unfortunately the principle of limited government is directly at odds with a socialist system. The goals of a socialist system almost mandate vast and sweeping governmental powers in order to be achieved.
2) On global warming (hunter here too btw). For what it's worth, your anecdotal evidence would actualy weaken the claim for man-made global warming that is currently in vogue these days rather then strengthen it. Although it's called "global warming"... that does not mean that all parts of the globe are expected to evince warming trends. All the models of the current theory that I've heard about predict that Eastern North America (presumably where your birds are migrating from) should actualy be growing COLDER due to "global warming". This is supposed to be due to the weakening of the Gulf Stream current which makes our climate up here significantly milder then would otherwise be the case for this latitude. The idea that geese were migrating later in the year because the climate up North was getting warmer would run COUNTER to that claim. Personaly, I wouldn't put much stock in isolated anecdotes one way or the other. The climate is a pretty complicated thing....and individual isolated effects would be pretty hard to attribute to any one given cause unless you had a very thorough understanding of everything that factored into them. Maybe you do in that particular case....but I know I certainly don't.
You can actually have a four way. Also, the romance scenes are VERY PG. I have seen more graphic things happening on the street. If people are really that repulsed by gay "sex" which is really kissing, they should just alt tab. Also, Lelianna, Alistair, and Morrigan are all humans. Zevran is the only elf. I should also point out that you can receive the same extra bonuses by giving them gifts.
Yeah I agree, they are pg at best. A kiss is just a kiss afterall. Also, I remeber playing the first God of War on PS2 and was shocked at that one mini-game part where you have to have sex with this chick in the bed. I was so suprised to see that the player had to jiggle the Analog stick and press buttons when indicated while the main character fondled and played with her breasts. The point is I considered that almost R rated material and that was on a console system. You don't see any of that in DAO, it's just kissing... not a big deal imho, at least compared to God of War... come to think if it, wasn't that on the first part of the story arc, near the beggining?
I have to say that what you say scares me.
You voted for the other side to basically give them a shot? Plain and simple, thats dumb thinking or being brainwashed.
I vote for whoever I feel will best support myself and my family over the long haul. Also who has the values I have. I dont vote party line for the sake of seeing what they can do...
Bush was not a fiscal conservative, but I stand by him as he made many of the right choices. But he did bleed money out. The current administration is making a joke of Bush's spending though.
Also, to be on topic, The game does promote homesexual activity if it provides a reward to cheat and engage in such activity (acheivments).
Acheivments are often though not always out of game and have no impact on play, especially romance player acheivmments.
That said the IN GAME rewards for contract killing actually benifits your character with money and equipment. In that senes the game promotes contract killing even more so than homosexual behavior.
(off topic and wrong forum)
Acheivements are odd from an olld gamer perspective and 2/3rds useless.
there 3 types of acheivments
1 Useless achievememt "you completed X level.
2 Bragging acheivement "explored did X content"
3 Useful acheviment "you did X and now gain Y bonus going forward"
Your entire pro-deviance argument is that humans are incapable of thinking beyond their sexual organs, so we should just have sex with anything that moves, regardless of morality, social consequences, marital consequences, or medical consequences. That's absurd. If that's really how you feel, all I can say is maybe you should grow up and stop thinking with what's in your pants. "If it feels good, do it" will hurt you and anyone close to you. Look how well this attitude is going over for Tiger Woods and his family. Use Tiger's experience as an example that this lifestyle is wrong and change your attitude while you can.
Historically, you are wrong. Roman and Greek culture didn't start out so open. In fact, historians have argued that the excessive lack of morality towards the end of those ancient cultures were what tipped the balance and caused those cultures to fail.
No, actually Dana is right. Their cultures were indeed very open about it. I've spent the last year and a half to two years (as a European History major) talking about the history and culture of that part of the world, as well as others. Never once did homosexual relations come up as a reason for their downfall. It was, oh, I don't know, the invading armies from other cultures, some of which practiced homosexuality as well, that overran them, in short.
Man, it's so wild to experience hate disguised in so many ways.
Exactly, coincidentally, I was also a European History major.
There are writers who claim moral decay led to the decay of both civilizations, the other guy is right in that, but he leaves out that they're mostly discredited by serious historians as people with a specific agenda to drive.
Take Rome, they actually reigned it in over the last few hundred years if anything. The really crazy stuff was in the pre-Imperial days, or the early Imperial days.
I don't think anyone is promoting adultery (heck, even Dragon Age punishes you for sleeping around) or bestiality, but you lumping homosexuality in with those is downright offensive.
Wasn't the arguement more along the lines of a decline in "civic virtues" rather then neccesarly "moral decay" per se (at least as far as Modern Christianity would define "morality".....as the virtues espoused by ancient Rome/Greece... didn't neccesarly map to what we would consider "moral").
I always found the "Civic Virtue" arguement to have some teeth to it....at least for Rome....didn't really learn much Greek history.
I mean part of the Western Empires problems were due to it's reliance on peoples living on the fringe of the Empire and not properly "Roman" to perform much of the duties that the Empire relied on for it's existance because the "Romans" themselves were too comfortable to want to get thier hands duty.
Perfect example being the heavy reliance on Ostrogoth soldiers to bare the brunt of combat for many of Rome's conflicts....only to have the Ostrogoths turn around and defeat Romes Legions in the field and then sack Rome when they grew disatisfied with thier treatment by the Empire. Thier ability to do so in no small part because their service made them better trained/experienced in the Roman method of making war then most of Romes own soldiers and commanders.
Would all the prudes just get over themselves, a good adventure story is borning without getting the girl or the guy.
I am lesbian I doubt many of the straight laced prudes buy the game or play it. in a phrase...screw them.
I like being able to have my female have a romance with MY choice of characters.
Bioware made one of the best games there is it sells on the adventure, the romance and the storyline. All this bullshit about the romance not being straight or its dirty is just our repressed nay sayers and tot hem I say get off the computer and go get laid you might not be such a prude or tight ass anymore.
ok i have a Dwarf Character and i wanna sleep with Shale - The Golem - is that also bad??
World start looking for "news" in the most stupid places he can find whean he does not have with something else...
Hell i heard some months ago that Catholick church throing words for ........Donald Duck for hes NOT wearing pants and hes a pervet...... COMOOOOONN!!!!! WHAT ELSE!!!
what about shale sleeping with the dog or lelianna sleeping with shale and the dog XD too funny
what about shale sleeping with the dog or lelianna sleeping with shale and the dog XD too funny
ROFL!!! now that i dint think of it ahahhahahaha!!!!
I wish they would get over it, BUT it is not likely as prudes/likely conservatives, like to bash and condemn what they find immoral it is a hobby for some, and a calling for others.
I am socially liberal and I love to bash religion, for its closed mindedness. I just have the decency to keep my bashing to my own blogs for the most part and my discussions with people open minded enough to listen to me berate their beliefs. I try not to bash people who aren't up for it and I try to keep my bashing in the right forums.
I argue more story options equals better story even if those options arent to your liking, and in fact might give you the opportunity to deviate from what you would normally do. Oh wait what is that roleplay OMG its a role playing game.
I dont know im babbling now been reading this thread to long.
I wish they would get over it, BUT it is not likely as prudes/likely conservatives, like to bash and condemn what they find immoral it is a hobby for some, and a calling for others.
I am socially liberal and I love to bash religion, for its closed mindedness. I just have the decency to keep my bashing to my own blogs for the most part and my discussions with people open minded enough to listen to me berate their beliefs. I try not to bash people who aren't up for it and I try to keep my bashing in the right forums.
I argue more story options equals better story even if those options arent to your liking, and in fact might give you the opportunity to deviate from what you would normally do. Oh wait what is that roleplay OMG its a role playing game.
I dont know im babbling now been reading this thread to long.
religion sucks and you dont' have to have any sex in the game if you don't want to
ROFL!!! now that i dint think of it ahahhahahaha!!!!
or what about sleeping with morrigan after she shape shifted XD
bow chicka bow wow is all i have to say Leilana is my toons lesbian lover XD
damn i wonder what it would be like to have a dwarf sleep with wynne
Yet you're in complete denial of free market capitalism, with a joke for regulation, has failed equally. Nope, don't want to talk about that. Ignore the man behind the screen, lol!
At least you're honest about it. More than I can say for some of the other yokels in here.
I dont know how the U.S. became the richest country in the world without embracing socialism. Maybe you can explain to me how it is that western europe is doing so well and yet demanding money for the U.N. and the farce known as global warming?
Seems like the difference between socialism and capitalism seems marginal at best. Seems mostly different on paper, but when you take a look at america at closer view, it's actually quite a bit socialisitic in many aspects. Sorry just had to add my 2cents into both of you're interesting debate.
I'm actually not afraid of more socialism in our country, I mean if America needs it, then we should adapt... One thing you can say about Americans that seems historically true, is that we are good at changing, adapting and evolving as a country... generally speaking ofc.
I agree it takes a balance of the two. My problem with the current administration is too much power. I do not like either party to have as much power as the liberals have at this time. The presidency and both houses is too much power to wield,be it a left or right wing administration.
He who is with out sin must get stoned.
That is not a newspaper, it's a supermarket tabloid that looks for Elvis.
Liberals think the Social Sciences have the answers so they should control out lives. Conservatives think God has given them the answers so they should have control our lives. I say "Get the Hell out of out lives, let us screw it up ourselves.
Wasn't the arguement more along the lines of a decline in "civic virtues" rather then neccesarly "moral decay" per se (at least as far as Modern Christianity would define "morality".....as the virtues espoused by ancient Rome/Greece... didn't neccesarly map to what we would consider "moral").
I always found the "Civic Virtue" arguement to have some teeth to it....at least for Rome....didn't really learn much Greek history.
I mean part of the Western Empires problems were due to it's reliance on peoples living on the fringe of the Empire and not properly "Roman" to perform much of the duties that the Empire relied on for it's existance because the "Romans" themselves were too comfortable to want to get thier hands duty.
Perfect example being the heavy reliance on Ostrogoth soldiers to bare the brunt of combat for many of Rome's conflicts....only to have the Ostrogoths turn around and defeat Romes Legions in the field and then sack Rome when they grew disatisfied with thier treatment by the Empire. Thier ability to do so in no small part because their service made them better trained/experienced in the Roman method of making war then most of Romes own soldiers and commanders.
Right, but I suspect that's not the school of thought he was on about. There is a group of historians, and a group from way back, that point to morality as the reason the empire fell. Specifically personal morality.
There is no single reason, but yes, the - for lack of a better word - laziness of the actual Romans has also been tossed out as a huge reason. And somewhat confusingly, this theory is often called "moral decay," but not in the sense we were arguing. They always had slavery, but in later years it became just about the only thing they used and the things that made their civilization great (army and thus engineering) suffered greatly.
ROFL!!! now that i dint think of it ahahhahahaha!!!!
or what about sleeping with morrigan after she shape shifted XD
As long as it is not the spider.....I'm terrified of spiders lol...though how hard could be to sleep with the swarm of bees.
Right, but I suspect that's not the school of thought he was on about. There is a group of historians, and a group from way back, that point to morality as the reason the empire fell. Specifically personal morality.
There is no single reason, but yes, the - for lack of a better word - laziness of the actual Romans has also been tossed out as a huge reason. And somewhat confusingly, this theory is often called "moral decay," but not in the sense we were arguing. They always had slavery, but in later years it became just about the only thing they used and the things that made their civilization great (army and thus engineering) suffered greatly.
Try reading Gibbon's two volume "The decline and fall of the Roman Empire" you both might learn something.
I've been around. Traveled and worked with people in Africa, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Inner Mongolia, China, Australia and I've lived in both Europe and the USA. I'm not exactly young anymore. I'm a scientist, mostly concerned with matters of zoonotic disease and public health.
The United States certainly has its good points. In the case of global warming though, the degree of greed and consumerism, and the assurance in Americans that they *deserve* to live as they do, will be a key driver behind why little is done to slow warming, let alone reverse the damage. I understand they are not the only people that such criticism can be leveled. Australians are another, and I am Australian. They are though, along with China, the country that needs to be the most convinced. Instead, skepticism (of the kind above) that warming is taking place or that mankind is responsible for it, is incredibly common in the US at levels nowhere else in the world.
Climate change is happening right now with this decade to be the warmest on record. It is not a matter of it being in vogue to believe this, citizens of the USA simply have a lot of catching up to do because of the countries recent political history. Scientists are an intrinsically cautious group of people, and even more so when advising government on taking action. Had the USA had a similar mindset to the Europeans perhaps something might have been done. It is far too late now and it is very much a matter of how bad will the consequences be and whether we can mitigate them. History will judge us harshly and future generations will shake their heads in shame.
(Sorry to be so off topic but this sort of thing is worth saying.)
This is similar to what happened when Mortal Kombat first came out. Man I remember how excited I was to play a game that splurted blood whenever someone got hit and also let you rip people's heads off and burn them alive...
I've been around. Traveled and worked with people in Africa, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Inner Mongolia, China, Australia and I've lived in both Europe and the USA. I'm not exactly young anymore. I'm a scientist, mostly concerned with matters of zoonotic disease and public health.
The United States certainly has its good points. In the case of global warming though, the degree of greed and consumerism, and the assurance in Americans that they *deserve* to live as they do, will be a key driver behind why little is done to slow warming, let alone reverse the damage. I understand they are not the only people that such criticism can be leveled. Australians are another, and I am Australian. They are though, along with China, the country that needs to be the most convinced. Instead, skepticism (of the kind above) that warming is taking place or that mankind is responsible for it, is incredibly common in the US at levels nowhere else in the world.
Climate change is happening right now with this decade to be the warmest on record. It is not a matter of it being in vogue to believe this, citizens of the USA simply have a lot of catching up to do because of the countries recent political history. Scientists are an intrinsically cautious group of people, and even more so when advising government on taking action. Had the USA had a similar mindset to the Europeans perhaps something might have been done. It is far too late now and it is very much a matter of how bad will the consequences be and whether we can mitigate them. History will judge us harshly and future generations will shake their heads in shame.
(Sorry to be so off topic but this sort of thing is worth saying.)
As P.J. O’Rourke quoted in his book “All The Trouble In The World”, one noted environmentalist said back in the Eighties;
“We have to strike a balance between offering up scary scenarios- and actually telling the truth.”
The fellow who said that was none other than then U.s. Senator Al Gore. An “inconvenient truth” if there ever was one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEiLgbBGKVk
WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH MMORPGS?
lol, seriously?
I honestly do not see why an mature adult would be offended by a Sex scene which lasts like 30 seconds if not less. I mean seriously for crying out loud. We watch Live TV with more sexual cotnent than in a video game. I dont know about anyone else But I have played Dragonage orgins twice all the way through. I enjoyed it reguardless of what others think about the blood sacrifice, or the sacrifice of a virtual kid. Its a game, dont like it simply dont play it. Seeing the news article on WND really pissed me off, as whoever wrote it obviously did not even play game. Also Im waiting for Dragon Age Origins 2
So because someone does not agree with you, they should be condemned?? ohh wait, forgot thats how liberals think, be tolerant of everyone that agrees with you and condemn the rest as being intolerant...
Sigh. To think we're living in the 21st c.
Agreed.
Right, but I suspect that's not the school of thought he was on about. There is a group of historians, and a group from way back, that point to morality as the reason the empire fell. Specifically personal morality.
There is no single reason, but yes, the - for lack of a better word - laziness of the actual Romans has also been tossed out as a huge reason. And somewhat confusingly, this theory is often called "moral decay," but not in the sense we were arguing. They always had slavery, but in later years it became just about the only thing they used and the things that made their civilization great (army and thus engineering) suffered greatly.
Try reading Gibbon's two volume "The decline and fall of the Roman Empire" you both might learn something.
I am pretty sure that's exactly what we're talking about, at least it's what I was.
The permissiveness of the US secular culture does not extend to the rest of the world. These acts ARE morally wrong in almost every culture. In some cultures, it even goes so far as to be punished by the death penalty for those who get caught in such situations. If you disagree, go to Saudi Arabia and practice homosexuality publicly.
Despite your wishing otherwise, morally wrong is morally wrong. Those with moral standards have the right to protest against that which they find immoral. Protesting against public display of sexual deviance is not homophobia, it's an attempt to bring moral values to their community and dissuade those practicing deviant behavior from committing immoral acts. The harm is to both those witnessing the acts and those committing them. If you were to stop someone who was about to cut off their hand, would you be handectomyphobic? No, you'd be expressing concern for that person's well-being.
Morally wrong is NOT morally wrong. Morally wrong is whatever a group of people say it is. In some places its morally wrong in some places its not. Why isn't it universal? If it was truly morally wrong, even the places that are fine with it would have to acknowledge that they are ok with being immoral, when in fact countries that are fine with it recognize it isn't immoral. For every country like Saudi Arabia, I can point to you to a country that has absolutely no problem with homosexuality. Not only can you not define what morally wrong is, you can't even back up your claim about it being wrong in almost countries.
As far as your protesting rational, I can show how cutting off someone's hand would harm them, you can't show any harm for homosexuality. Its pure homophobia. To even claim that being gay is immoral is homophobic. And lets be clear, we're not discussing about a "public display of sexual deviance" or are you saying that a public display of man/woman vaginal sex would ok? What we're talking about is public acknowledgment that homosexuality exists and there is nothing wrong with it. Oh, I understand some people think there is something wrong with it, but just because some small-minded people think it, doesn't make it true.
If a MMORPG decides to give you the same choices or provide you sexual content and the MMORPG becomes mainstream, you will get the same conflict. MMORPGs have been covered as an addiction, when they cover games they throw them all in together, so then SPG are seen as the same.
Don't MMOs have ESRB ratings? Do you understand the same effect?
I would rather the game I pick up (after checking it's content mind you) and play it as it was delivered. If you're not understanding what I'm saying feel free to ask any Australian gamer what I'm talking about, all of their games have literally been neutered of most forms of adult content, of coarse if there is not a Australian here to tell you. Look up what they did to L4D2 or manhunt 2.
People need to learn they have the option to ignore one game that does not settle with them. No sense in changing something an apparent majority are fine with.
In short. What effects SP/MP games will affect MMOs.
Well, if you want to make an assumption on my political affiliations based on that little information, then I'll make one on your 53 years of age and being from Iowa. Vote for Palin again and see where it gets ya!
Wasnt just you i was referring too but considering how well Obama has worked out anyone including Palin might bring some of the "hope" your grasping for.
Not a chance in hell. The day she's elected is the day I move to Canada or England.
That's one thing I never understood about you guys. You want "everyone else" to shut up and let your guy finish their terms before they're judged yet hell has a chance of freezing over before you'll extend that same courtesy should your guy lose office. You want patience when your guy is in, and immediate results (with zero positive aid from your side) when the other guy is in.
I mean, seriously, there is no way you can compare the whiny droning of Al Franken, Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow (all who annoy me but I give Keith slack because of his stint on ESPN) to the hate speech of Bill O'reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity, and Ann Coulter. Well, unless you are in lock-step with the latter in which case there is no point in discussing it.
As for "hope", I have none for this country as long as Rush, Bill, Shawn and Ann are on the television and/or radio and people still vote for a Palin. When a certain generation dies out and the "old ways" are gone and it's left to these young kids who exhibit a ton more tolerance than those in power right now...then, only then, might I have some hope.
I'm 32 now and I'm talking when/if I make it to 72 and above.
It is strange the folks who espouse freedom of speech only want it for those they agree with. That’s not what the first amendment means. If you support “Free Speech”, you must support it for everyone, even those who you hate. Free Speech for just the “Politically Correct”, no matter their ideology, is no speech at all. This is the same attitude from the Left, as you see from the Right who would censor these games.
A certain responsibility comes with "free speech". If you and others can't comprehend that then "free speech" becomes dangerous. Can it Political correctness, or whatever you like, but there is a responsibility that comes with using words.
As stated by Edward Bulwer-Lytton: The pen is mightier than the sword.
The words of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and O'reilly have drawn an immeasurable amount of blood.
Unless they have actualy developed those sonic weapons that were depicted in Dune then "speech" in actuality has never caused a single drop of blood to be shed. What actualy causes blood to be shed is people CHOOSING to ACT upon such speech. Responsibility for any blood spilt lies solidly in the hands of the people CHOOSING to spill it.
The idea that there is "speech/expressions/viewpoints" that is acceptable to be heard and speech that isn't (a viewpoint often taken by the hard Left) is frankly more dangerous, chilling, and authoritarian then anything that has been spewed by Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and O'reilly combined. Frankly, I find their hyperbole often over the top...but on a fair amount of topics I often agree with much of what those individuals have to say..... I guess in your world view....I should be what? Shipped off to a Gulag for holding such opinions?
The bottom line is that in a free country... ALL ideas, no matter how stupid or objectionable are deserving of the opportunity to be heard. That's what makes our country great. We don't have any God-Kings sitting around passing judgement upon what we are are allowed or not allowed to hear.....as if we are infants who are incapable of hearing things which might be harmful to us, unable to think for ourselves and unaccountable for our own actions.
"Free speech" isn't, especially these days. That was originally meant to prevent *government* oppression. We've seen how well that worked in the end, haven't we?... The original concept was that protection of unpopular speech was necessary for the continued health of the republic. That was supposed to be coupled with a free press... Which in an age of corporate mass media, that acts as a Ministry of Truth for government is yet another concept thats long since lost any real substance.
Yes, PC is alive and well, and VERY dangerous. But its not just the cultural marxists who are behind it these days. Those on the "right"(Neo Cons in particular) having discarded any pretense of respect for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights have closed ranks behind the likes of those you mention above, and new ones like Glenn Beck.. In the cross fire between the two sides("Left" and "Right") is lost the fact that many people just want to be left alone, and are LONG past tired of dealing with the consequences of the endless "compromises" between the two aspects of our One Party State.
Bottom line, what business is it of governments what choices people make, just so long as it doesn't involve force or fraud? But thats a concept that in an age of Gitmo, "detaining" people without due process for years, and the Department of Home Land Security is totally ignored.
The whole premise of this issue is absurd. In fact, any attack upon any form of media, be it music, games, movies, etc., accusing it of corrupting moral and ethical values is unsane (not insane). It's unfortunate that our society has brought us to the point where placing blame on others for our personal state of well being is the norm. People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions and choices in life. They need to stop looking to companies to take on that responsibility for them.
As pointed out by the author, this game was given a rating to provide parents with the information necessary to make a choice of whether this game is suitable for our children. That is where the gaming industry's responsibility should end. After that, it's the consumers choice on what is appropriate for them or their kin. If something offends you, then, simply, avoid it. Don't buy it, turn it off, look away.
Helen Lovejoy needs to realize that she has a very important role to play in the life of her family and of herself. Take initiative, stop pointing fingers, do what's right for your life, and leave us to ours.
Kudos Bioware. It's good to see that you're taking chances (chances that shouldn't be chances) in this unsane society. I look forward to more of your games and I, truly, hope others follow suit.
Agreed.
They should not be condemned, their ignorance and bigotry should. All ignorance and bigotry should be condemned no matter from the Right or the Left.
Agreed.
They should not be condemned, their ignorance and bigotry should. All ignorance and bigotry should be condemned no matter from the Right or the Left.
Perhaps the very act of condeming should be condemned... wait a minute, did I just condemn myself? lol
They should not be condemned, their ignorance and bigotry should. All ignorance and bigotry should be condemned no matter from the Right or the Left.
Perhaps the very act of condeming should be condemned... wait a minute, did I just condemn myself? lol
YES
l bet bioware just sold thousands of copies today....virtual sex is the only way a nerd will be able to get anything these days....SHAZAM!!!!!
some jesus freak again got offended ? they better start listening to Slayer music lol.
You would know, eh? Lol
The permissiveness of the US secular culture does not extend to the rest of the world. These acts ARE morally wrong in almost every culture. In some cultures, it even goes so far as to be punished by the death penalty for those who get caught in such situations. If you disagree, go to Saudi Arabia and practice homosexuality publicly.
Despite your wishing otherwise, morally wrong is morally wrong. Those with moral standards have the right to protest against that which they find immoral. Protesting against public display of sexual deviance is not homophobia, it's an attempt to bring moral values to their community and dissuade those practicing deviant behavior from committing immoral acts. The harm is to both those witnessing the acts and those committing them. If you were to stop someone who was about to cut off their hand, would you be handectomyphobic? No, you'd be expressing concern for that person's well-being.
Morally wrong is NOT morally wrong. Morally wrong is whatever a group of people say it is. In some places its morally wrong in some places its not. Why isn't it universal? If it was truly morally wrong, even the places that are fine with it would have to acknowledge that they are ok with being immoral, when in fact countries that are fine with it recognize it isn't immoral. For every country like Saudi Arabia, I can point to you to a country that has absolutely no problem with homosexuality. Not only can you not define what morally wrong is, you can't even back up your claim about it being wrong in almost countries.
As far as your protesting rational, I can show how cutting off someone's hand would harm them, you can't show any harm for homosexuality. Its pure homophobia. To even claim that being gay is immoral is homophobic. And lets be clear, we're not discussing about a "public display of sexual deviance" or are you saying that a public display of man/woman vaginal sex would ok? What we're talking about is public acknowledgment that homosexuality exists and there is nothing wrong with it. Oh, I understand some people think there is something wrong with it, but just because some small-minded people think it, doesn't make it true.
But see that's the problem, for some of the posters here the mere ackowledgement that homosexuality exists is a problem. Bioware going out of their way to give options that allow gay gamers a bit of recognition, a chance to be themselves, is not something to be applauded, but to be decried as the beginning of an avalanche of the gay that with bury society.
Yeah right.
Also, really, I go out to work shaking my head at being called deluded and come home to find we've regressed to the 1950's and I'm a deviant?
Trafficking in moral absolutes is the business of philopsophers not the luxury of blowhard forum posters.
As Dana pointed out, lumping homosexuality in with bestiality etc. is insulting.
Gay people exist (shock!), we play games (double shock!) and whether Yamoda, Battleaxe and co agree with it or not, we are an audience it doesn't hurt to cater to every now and then.
If DA:O contained porn or an unacceptable degree or permutation of sexuality, the ESRB would have dropped the banhammer.
They didn't, ergo, no porn.
Quod erat demonstrandum (a hat tip to the romans...).
Are the people who are complaining about the option to be gay in the game really complaining because they feel the temptation to choose that option?
If they are, then they are probably gay. But if they are gay, don't worry, you can always go to church and they will fix you.
Video games are ABSOLUTELY the right place to analyze social stigmas. Major kudos to Bioware for making the game they wanted, and saying "fuck you" to playing it safe like all the other dry, copypaste RPG garbage. Games should be interesting. I would like to make the case for games as art, or social commentary, and games like Dragon Age: Origins allow me to do so, even if only in the slightest. We need more. Games can be art, they just typically aren't.
I just watched a cell phone commercial on national TV that showed Mrs. Clause and Frosty the Snowman in bed together and he was rubbing her with his carrot nose. Imagine that, Mrs. Clause sleepin around on Santa. Where's the Controversy there. Nothing is sacred anymore.
Some people are so dumb. It has a big "M" on it so get over it, they'll put what they want. Its a great game too with a lot of different paths to follow giving it a long play time!
Okay, i'm in a mellow mood and the moderators will probably not like it. Still, gotta do it.
SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!
You can figure out for yourself where that came from.
People are offended by gay sex because it is a distortion of what sex was made for. Whether you believe in evolution, christianity or whatever it doesn't matter. Neither lesbians or gays can seem to put it in the right hole and for good reason... it's not supposed to. If you are gay, congratulations. But just because people are gay doesn't mean the world needs to cater to gays in every aspect of life. Gays are a MINORITY and the majority of the population is disgusted by it and rightfully so.
I haven't played dragonage but if the sex is the same as Mass Effect its no worse then what you'd see on your daily tv show or soap opera. You can watch people get shot, maimed and killed but can't watch people have sex. You can join the army and kill people at 18 but can't buy alcohol til 21 lol... stupid shit.
So you don't like the Zev/Male PC and Leliana/Female PC.....awwwww
i don't think it pushes the envelope enough. The games industry now earns more than Hollywood and as films did some time ago games are growing up. The simple answer to this is the same as for films as well, if you don't like it or find it offensive then don't play it.
Let us not forget that the lions share of the worlds problems are directly caused by ultra conservative groups who think that everyone alive should follow the same agenda as they do and are willing to beat the notion into you. From the Taliban to the local priest that thinks role-playing is devil worship, all of them cut from the same cloth ( although some are more militant than others ). It falls on the rest of us, the ( normal ) majority to do the actual thinking and to make a stand against them by supporting those that do push the envelope in increasing the freedoms that most of us enjoy. Kudos Bioware, keep up the good work.
I will say it, and not really care what people think. But the game was great! Well done, well written, and well acted! As for the homosexuality, I never went down that road. I do not agree with that choice in life style but because its in a game doesn't mean you have to play it, didn't bother me any.
The fact that this writer tried to make people that disagree with this life style seem like a bunch of whack jobs is a bit off key, but honestly who cares. I don't agree with it, so the gay community can sue me. I loved the game, so the Christian community can sue me to :)
-Ethnine-
The majority are not aroused by it.
Disgust is quite another matter, and I most definitely think that you are mistaken that the majority are 'disgusted' by homosexuality. That's pretty sick.
As for 'a distortion of what sex was made for,' I might point out that the vast majority of sex between the vast majority of couples in the world is performed for pleasure and without the intention to procreate. How perverted.
To refer to homosexuality as a perversion, you must, by the same logic, consider not only contraception and all forms of non-procreative sexuality to be perverted, but also all products of self-awareness that don't contribute to the propagation of our genes. What an exhaustive list of human achievement that would be. You'd need to be not just a Luddite, but a furry hunter-gatherer well before the harnessing of fire.
Get a grip.
All generalizations are false, including this one. Mark Twain
The Hubris of the Left is as bad as the Theism of the Right.
This is truly getting out of control....who cares..what utter bullcrap. People fighting, bringing religion and politics into a video game. It is like what Fox News tried to do Mass Effect and that idiot lawyer does with GTA and other "violent" games. If you have a problem, don't play the game.
With violence, at least, you can have some interesting discussions about why the hell we try to make violence entertaining, who enjoys it and why, whether or not we ought to stimulate that desire, in what cases it is or isn't a desire being stimulated, et cetera....
But sex? Everyone enjoys it and we know perfectly well why. Nothing interesting here. I might even say there could hardly be anything more mundane and I'm always surprised we so often flip our lids over it.
I'll say just a few brief things.
(Things = Anything oyu may find offensive from swearing, sex, drugs, rock and roll...you name it, you hate it...its what I'm talking about.)
Long ago people got offended when things were done on stage, hey look nobody cares whether or not a woman is portraying a character because well...its theater.
Long ago people got offended when things were published in books, hey look...last I checked I read more gruesome stuff in 9th grade than show up in a video game any day.
Long ago people got offended when things were sung in songs and music. Yea...nobody cares...Read a book mutha fucka.
Long ago people got offended when things were shown in Movies and on Television and on the Radio. By and large the rating system solved that...YET AGAIN....we have channels for everybody.
Long ago people got offended when things started popping up on Chatrooms, Websites, etc. All accessible by our kids. TADA we have ratings and other things in place to "protect our kids"(that and its the internet).
Now people are btiching about Video Games. Sorry peeps, Wolfenstein 3D, Nazi's, Blood, Death, Gore, Guns, Prostitutes. Duke Nuke'em, Quake...you name it...GTA...all these games have similar issues. Honestly It will become acceptable like everything else.
Whatever the medium, anything and everything that hits a target audience can and should be used as an avenue to present hot-buttion social issues. Why? Because that is the place where that target audience is able to most easily digest the information. Is that avenue for everyone? NO. But why limit ourselves? Why hide behind lies? Why shelter your kid so they don't know what a Penis is till they reach the age of 16? Why? Because people are bigoted idiots...thats the only reason to shelter.
Knowledge is power, let us teach our kids properly so they don't grow up to shoot people, so they don't grow up to have a child at 14 cause they knocked up their girlfriend while having unprotected sex. LETS EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN SO THAT THEY MAY DRIVE US TOWARDS EXPANSION OF KNOWLEDGE.
Sorry everyone...I'd like to not think about the fact that 200 years from now people might still live in trailers. I'd like to hope that we would get smarter and get beyond this Political Correctness bullshit or the Ultra-Social-Conservativism which threatens to revert our society back 100 years just because two dudes wanna kiss each other. (Psst....Greece...Rome...Yanno..B.C. Era...happened ALL THE DAMN TIME.).
End result - Yea, lets use Video games as a medium for the hot button issues...and lets inform the wackjobs that they can go to the field...sit on it...and ROTATE. And you know what, that statement was Racy at the time and used on Happy Days a lot. Get real people...
Why all of a sudden this is all over the news?
I'm waiting for the part where people say President Obama endorsed this game.
I guess no one plays that "Second life" game or has? It is some raunchy EA shit going on in there, I tell you.
Well, I guess when The Old Republic comes out, there will be some Sith and Jedi characters using saber hilts for other things rather than fighting with them/ face palm (George don't do it man)!
Hate to further derail the thread, and I find it imperative to comment on the last sentence.
Me and all but 1 friend from post-grad days, have left countries, me for decades. Not that moon is fuller on the other side, but that I can face it honestly and tell myself, "this stinks" in face of whoever I hate.
I hate the hypocracy at home. We go to church every weekend, and the priest is sleeping with the 10 year old kids. Some of us know it and still talks through him to god. Same for our "industry regulations". The greedy and the biggest gang up to rape the small companies and they help formulate business regulation policies they themselves hire tons of lawyers to find legal loopholes to get around.
If I am going to be a business man, I straight up tell my clients, this is my cut b/c I need to pay for my rental and my off hour MMO sub. Pay or get lost. I do not pretend I did my part, squander 90% of my company's fortune and blackmail the admin for billions of dollars of rescue funds simply b/c I screwed up big time and threaten to rock the economy. In the places I now travel, if I screw up my business, I will be begging on the streets.
Yes they are a minority, and as we've come to understand from a LONG tradition of human history might(numbers) makes "right"... It doesn't matter how disgusted you or I might find such, its not our choice in the first place. Unless of course one falls back on might(numbers) makes "right"... But that has its own implications, especially in terms of asymmetrical conflict.
Sex for pleasure is not a domain of human race or gays. If you are so sure what the sex was made for, you should stop masturbating and having distortive and vile sex with your girlfriend if you're not trying to have a baby.
On the children issue, If you're worried about your kid picking up things from games, perhaps you need to sit down with your child and talk about these things. Limit game time. Be a parent. Don't try to make companies do the thinking for you and be resposible and read the packages. Personally, I think this game pushes the envelope just far enough.
DM: “That aside, the game rewards people who do the right think”
The right thing or the right think? A subconious slip in an article where Dana Massey finds it very important that you think like he does.
He tells us how the game promotes a sleep with everyone mentaltity but that’s alright as everyone keeps their underwear on. An odd moral philosophy to play by, one where what you can see is more important than what you choose to do. The fact that the game does not change the positions for gay sex seems more important to him than the dubious ‘if it moves sleep with it’ menality.
The organisation mentioned, ‘WorldNewsDaily’ is accused of homophobia by Mr Massey because it just zeros in on the gay sex angle. Here are some quotes from that article:
WND: "decide how to handle complex issues like murder, genocide, betrayal and the possession and sacrificing of children."
WND: “The child is slain, and a female demon with horns and a tail emerges from his corpse.”
I think it was fair to say that WND ran with a inflammatory headline but that they were concerned about more than just gay sex. Also if the You Tube quotes at the bottom of the article are true, the game is being lauded as a landmark achievement for the gay community. In the light of that I think an examination of the sexual orientation of the game is quite fair, though the article is clearly sensationalist.
One can only wonder why Mr Massey picked this news item out of so many which had escaped all our radars to write an article about. No political bias there surely?
The permissiveness of the US secular culture does not extend to the rest of the world. These acts ARE morally wrong in almost every culture. In some cultures, it even goes so far as to be punished by the death penalty for those who get caught in such situations. If you disagree, go to Saudi Arabia and practice homosexuality publicly.
Despite your wishing otherwise, morally wrong is morally wrong. Those with moral standards have the right to protest against that which they find immoral. Protesting against public display of sexual deviance is not homophobia, it's an attempt to bring moral values to their community and dissuade those practicing deviant behavior from committing immoral acts. The harm is to both those witnessing the acts and those committing them. If you were to stop someone who was about to cut off their hand, would you be handectomyphobic? No, you'd be expressing concern for that person's well-being.
That's not even remotely true.
Romans, Greeks and all sorts of other cultures throughout history were completely OK with homosexuality. Historically speaking, in Western culture at least, this moral outcry is a relatively (IE: in the hundreds of years) new development.
Sure, there are cultures where you cannot openly be gay, but there are also cultures where you cannot eat certain animals on certain days of the week. Every culture has its quirks.
But to paint that with such a complete brush is absolutely absurd from a historical point of view.
The fact is, modern science should tell people thinking homosexuality is a choice or immoral is ridiculous. Biologically speaking, 10% of ducks are gay. Get over it.
From historical point of view the norm has been that homosexuality is a mortal sin. It is hinted in the Old Testament which is thousands of years old and God even destroyed a whole city which engaged in deviant sexual behaviour (including homesexuality). So those cultures where it has been accepted has been the exception rather than the norm and those cultures no longer exist.
From an evolutional perspective it is a death sentance for a heterosexual species to be homosexual for obvious reasons so not only is it immoral, in many cultures, but it is also evolutionary wrong.
That being said I dont think it is "evil" or anything but rather a deficiency that some people give way too much attention to (on both sides).
I personally dont care if people engage into homosexual acts aslong as it is private and not in my face. Something that I think alot of people labeled "homophobes" are like and I very much would like to know if a media has homosexual sex in it so I can avoid playing those. And no, a label saying "contains sexual content" is not enough. Rather it should say contains deviant sexual content because that is what homosexuality is: deviant, i.e. differs from the norm which is heterosexuality. Because as you stated only roughly 10% are homosexual.
Agree with the first one, why don't you guys start reviewing future games like Mass Effect 2, AVP3, Stalker, Bioshock 2, etc and let's call it Games.com?
Also, Zorn, the irony is that you don't even get to see the tits in Dragon Age. The game barely has any actual sex scenes in it, just some kissing and hugging, that's all. But it isn't a bad game.
Scot, *everyone* has their own bias and agenda, including you and I. World "News" Daliy is simply a further "right" version of the type of mentality that Fox "News" panders to. Neo Cons and/or Fundies eat that type of nonsense up. Just as Neo Libs do the swill pushed by the Clinton "News" Network. Both push the same type of thoughtless knee jerk reaction to complex issues, that has resulted in our current sorry state of affairs. Until people realize the extent to which they are being manipulated, little if any change for the better will take place.
Your last is ironic when applied to your choice to respond to this particular column...
In the end, there's no difference between a nature and norture. From an evolutionary point of view, homosexual genes should be a definite and immediate dead end. I'm afraid the whole thing is far more complicated. Other forms of genetic deviations are appearing in roughly 1:10000 cases. If homosexuality is 1:10, it hardly can be called a genetic damage or faulty mutation. Remember - Survival of the fittest ? That would sort that out instantly.
Som much fuzz because of a computer game, only on the Sates
I sincerly just laugh out loud at this whole idiosyncrasy.
Edit: and yes, unfortunately, only in certain few Western countries...
So movies, albums, books should also implement a "contains deviant sexual content" label? What about a "contains individuals taking drugs" label? Or "contains characters who use profane words" label? "Contains passages with extreme religious content"?
or maybe it can have a mature rating and people can just read about the content and judge for themselves?
I mean, people keep saying how they dont' want "hand holding" in video games. It would seem to be a bit hypocritical to say they don't like dumbing things down or hand holding but then need every little bit of anything that might possibly be offensive spelled out.
Sort of reminds me of the Southpark where the town decided to remove anything that might be considered remotely offensive from the Christmas pagent only to turn it into some sort of weird experimental dance piece with the music of philip glass.
I agree that some material should not be shoved in others' faces. But I also strongly believe that we can be adults, suck it up and do our own research as well.
I thorougly believe that any reasonable adult should be able to handle this.
I know I'm throwing an opinion into a sea of "who gives a crap"... but really, the gay/lesbian thing arose from political correctness in the first place. It's always hetero relationships shown in games, homos got offended, Bioware throws them a bone, now it's an easy target to stab at. All from trying to be *more* PC over sex.
Then the question of "who is being politically incorrect in today's climate?"
The gays or Fox News (lol)?
I just want to see some naked Elves. Is that too much to ask?
www.youtube.com/watch
In the end, there's no difference between a nature and norture. From an evolutionary point of view, homosexual genes should be a definite and immediate dead end. I'm afraid the whole thing is far more complicated. Other forms of genetic deviations are appearing in roughly 1:10000 cases. If homosexuality is 1:10, it hardly can be called a genetic damage or faulty mutation. Remember - Survival of the fittest ? That would sort that out instantly.
We have tons of genetical diseases that are not "sorted out" and the reason is that Darwins theory of evolution is not complete, it has many missing puzzle pieces and genetical diseases is one of them (the missing link is one other).
For instance, roughly 90% of people in asian countries are missing the gene to properly digest milk. Also it is estimated that 30% of people are genetically disposed to various cancer forms, diabetes, psychological illnessed and so on. So humans are not as perfect as one would deduce from the "survival of the fittest" theory. And certainly not so with the invent of civilization where "weaker" speciments are taken care of, rather than killed of. There are even several religions who says it is your DUTY to take care of people who are in need (including those that are sick or incapable of taking care of themselves).
So too summarise humans have ALOT of genetical "defects" that does not seem to be anything but a disadvantage. Yet they are passed from generations to generations. And the reason is simple, evolution has not finished but is still an ongoing process. A process that is now affected by civilization and maybe one can say that civilization is an evolutional product, who knows? Point is that evolution is a MUCH more complex theory beside just "survival of the fittest". Atleast on humans who has religion, culture, medical care and what not.
So movies, albums, books should also implement a "contains deviant sexual content" label? What about a "contains individuals taking drugs" label? Or "contains characters who use profane words" label? "Contains passages with extreme religious content"?
or maybe it can have a mature rating and people can just read about the content and judge for themselves?
I mean, people keep saying how they dont' want "hand holding" in video games. It would seem to be a bit hypocritical to say they don't like dumbing things down or hand holding but then need every little bit of anything that might possibly be offensive spelled out.
Sort of reminds me of the Southpark where the town decided to remove anything that might be considered remotely offensive from the Christmas pagent only to turn it into some sort of weird experimental dance piece with the music of philip glass.
I agree that some material should not be shoved in others' faces. But I also strongly believe that we can be adults, suck it up and do our own research as well.
I thorougly believe that any reasonable adult should be able to handle this.
Its a HUGE difference between warning people that such content exist instead of removing it. I am sure you are aware of this but you seem to want to make people think Im a bigot by equating the two.
Nice try but gl next time. I said WARN not remove. I for example am against homosexual behaviour since it both goes against my religion and against laws of nature so I have the right to avoid such content and not support companies that produces media abou it. And I have every right to do so, and so has anyone else in a free society. Because that is the flipside of freedom. you have the freedom to avoid content you dont like as well as expressing the ones you do like.
Things like kiddie porn and bestiality is something that is obvious that you dont need to be subjected to (even though the latter is legal in many countries) yet for gay sex I have to be subject to it without given due warning. Why?
We have tons of genetical diseases that are not "sorted out" and the reason is that Darwins theory of evolution is not complete, it has many missing puzzle pieces and genetical diseases is one of them (the missing link is one other).
For instance, roughly 90% of people in asian countries are missing the gene to properly digest milk. Also it is estimated that 30% of people are genetically disposed to various cancer forms, diabetes, psychological illnessed and so on. So humans are not as perfect as one would deduce from the "survival of the fittest" theory. And certainly not so with the invent of civilization where "weaker" speciments are taken care of, rather than killed of. There are even several religions who says it is your DUTY to take care of people who are in need (including those that are sick or incapable of taking care of themselves).
So too summarise humans have ALOT of genetical "defects" that does not seem to be anything but a disadvantage. Yet they are passed from generations to generations. And the reason is simple, evolution has not finished but is still an ongoing process. A process that is now affected by civilization and maybe one can say that civilization is an evolutional product, who knows? Point is that evolution is a MUCH more complex theory beside just "survival of the fittest".
There is a huge difference between a digest milk gene error, and homosexual gene. Homosexual genes are dead end - Non-reproducible. They do not have babies, the gene-line mutation should be in extremly small ratio such as 1:10000 which is a level of other gene non-reproducible defects. Digest milk is a minor flaw and the gene can reproduce itself and further mutate.
Nothing is against laws of nature. Sex and love does not have the sole purpose of reproduction.
I am not going to wade through pages and pages of discussion. The game is rated "M" for a reason. 'Nuff said.
For my own money, however, I turned off the "persistent gore" in the DA:O options early on, not because I was offended by the blood but just because I didn't want it. If there had been an option to disable any and all "romance/sex" options of any kind, gay or otherwise, I would have turned that off, too, just because the "sex" has a trivial sideshow aspect to it and adds nothing worthwhile to the game itself (imo).
It is unfortunate that Bioware, simply as a courtesy to the players, didn't add an option like that (as they did with the persistent gore). It would have been a fairly simple thing to do. All it would have entailed is the removal of a few critical dialog options.
Oh well. The game is still very wonderful and entertaining, for all that.
Wow you focused on ONE thing I said and completely ignored the rest.
Tell me is fatal cancer a dead end? Can a dead person reproduce? And if he/she reproduces before she dies what happens then? Yes the child may get that same gene.
Excactly the same with homosexuality. Because a homosexual person can reproduce because they can have sex with the opposite sex but they choose not to do so because they are not attracted to them. But attraction is not a requirement for sexual reproduction. I know alot of people that has slept with others even though they were not attracted to them. And there have been many cases where homosexual people have had "normal" relationships on the side of their sexual relationsships, have kids and everything. So NO, it is not a dead end because it does not prevent you from reproduce, but rather inhibits you from reproduyce.
Nothing is against laws of nature. Sex and love does not have the sole purpose of reproduction.
It is against evolutionar aspect of nature. There are no benefits from a evelotionary perspective for a heterosexual species to be homosexual. Atleast no proven ones. Hence it is a disease (no pun intented).
But it is not neccessarily a mortal disease, neither are alot of other genetical diseases. Such as bi-polarity, diabetes and so on.
And love does not neccessarily include sex. It is very possible to love someone but not sleep with him/her. Homo/Hetero sexuality though is only about what sex you are attracted to. I can love women and men alike but I am only attracted to females (which I dont neccessarily need to love), hence I am heterosexual.
This is what happens when random pseudo scientifc arguments are used.
See, your argument is limited and wrong.
One of the bigger issues among human race and evolution is superpopulation and lack of food.
A healthy society need that a percentage of the population to be sterile somehow. It doesn't matters if part of the species are homosexual, recluse, celibate or just don't want to have kids. Especially today as we live in a superpopulated world.
See, a society where everyone procreate is as bad as a society where no one procreate.
So, from an evolutional perspective we need a porcentage of homossexuals.
Yamota your arguments related to evolution, history, art and entertainment are offensively wrong, please keep your arguments limited to what you have knowledge.
...
Wow you focused on ONE thing I said and completely ignored the rest.
Tell me is fatal cancer a dead end? Can a dead person reproduce? And if he/she reproduces before she dies what happens then? Yes the child may get that same gene.
Excactly the same with homosexuality. Because a homosexual person can reproduce because they can have sex with the opposite sex but they choose not to do so because they are not attracted to them. But attraction is not a requirement for sexual reproduction. I know alot of people that has slept with others even though they were not attracted to them. And there have been many cases where homosexual people have had "normal" relationships on the side of their sexual relationsships, have kids and everything. So NO, it is not a dead end.
"Recent studies (1,2) have found that female relatives of male homosexuals do indeed produce more children (and the same is true of bisexual men)."
1. Camperio-Ciani, A., et al. (2004). Evidence for maternally-inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity. Proceedoings of the Royal Society of London, B 271, 2217-2224.
2. Camperio Ciani, A. (2009). Genetic factors increase fecundity in female maternal relatives of Bisexual men as in homosexuals. Sexual Medicine, 6, 449-455.
Quote from the survey:
"Mothers of gay men produced an average of 2.7 babies compared with 2.3 born to mothers of straight men. And maternal aunts of gay men had 2.0 babies compared with 1.5 born to the maternal aunts of straight men."
You can say it's against nature, I say nothing is against nature. Nature itself is the engine of all things around us in a world of physical and chemical causality
Exactly.
Isn't Children of Hurin the one his son assembled from his notes?
If so, it's possible that's why it's the one example of it in the guy's works.
Good point.
It is indeed possible.
Woah... You remind me on those people saying "God buried the dinosaur bones there to confuse us". Yeah.... T_T
I'm really not sure what to think about your post. On the one hand, I feel kinda pity and sorry for you, because... well your view on some things is so totally twisted and far off reality that it's like you'd claim "eyes? Eyes don't exist. Noone has eyes" and try to make up weird "proofs" that this is true. Or the people saying earth is flat, or that the earth is actually hollow and we live inside a hollow sphere instead of ontop of a globe.
On the other hand I'm somehow offended by the sheer amount if intolerance and... now my english knowledge lacks the vocabulary to express the digust I felt towards you when I read your post.
I mean first, the segretation of living beeings into "homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual" (and pansexual and whatelse there is) by itself is flawed. In truth, it's a smooth transition from one end to the other, and everywhere is somewhere on the scale. The fact that most people consider themselves to be one of the three (bi, homo or hetero) is the result of our society and what it made of us. It's not the result of nature or "god's will". In another society, there would not be such a segregation into those three categories. As said, everyone is somewhere on the scale, and noone is 100% bi, hetero or homo. However, society makes you think you are 100% of one of those. Which is clearly dumb, because it is limiting ourselves.
It's like saying "everything is red, green or blue. There are no other colors, and there is nothing inbetween". That's exactly the same thing. It is simplifying something which in the end results simply in an amputation of our beeings.
Also, the whole "gay is not how sex is meant to be" is also just plain wrong. In quite a lot of animal species are also animals having sex with animals of the same gender. It's according to scientists a universal phenomen. And if the existance of animals that have only sex with animals of the same sex would weaken the population, then simply by the theory of evolution would such a thing today not exist anymore, since populations with such animals would weaken and dwindle, where populations in which animals have only sex with animals of the opposite sex would get stronger.
Like, there are animals where "gay couples" steal eggs from other couples, and in the average the youngs they raise are stronger and reach a higher age than those raised by the couples of opposite genders. There are gay dolphins, wales, giraffes, penguins, birds, monkeys and whatnot. It's a part of nature. It's the way it is supposed to be. That some have sex one way and others another.
Sorry if maybe some sentences seem to be a bit rough or whatever, but english ain't my first language.
And the reason why some people are offended by gay sex is simply, that they are one or a combination of: intolerant, old-fashioned, brain-washed, religious fanatics or plain naive and dumb. Beeing offended by gay sex is something that was taught to you, something artificial. The same as you could raise a child in such a way that it eats one of it's fingers every half a dozen years, or that it wears it's shoes on it's head or considers fruits to be poisonous.
This is what happens when random pseudo scientifc arguments are used.
See, your argument is limited and wrong.
One of the bigger issues among human race and evolution is superpopulation and lack of food.
A healthy society need that a percentage of the population to be sterile somehow. It doesn't matters if part of the species are homosexual, recluse, celibate or just don't want to have kids. Especially today as we live in a superpopulated world.
See, a society where everyone procreate is as bad as a society where no one procreate.
So, from an evolutional perspective we need a porcentage of homossexuals.
Yamota your arguments related to evolution, history, art and entertainment are offensively wrong, please keep your arguments limited to what you have knowledge.
...
They are wrong because you say they are wrong? haha, please come up with proper counter arguments beside:
You are wrong.
And the idea that a population need people to be homosexual is laughable. The driving force of sexual reproduction is that each individual makes its best effort to reproduce and thus pass on their genes. Those that do not will die out so no homosexuality is "needed" for evolution to work. If population becomes too big to be sustained then there are other forces to keep them in check such as lack of food as you said.
If you are talking about humans then keep in mind that there are other ways of population control beside "needing" homosexuals. It is called birth control and is quite common in most areas of the world.
Please read the study to which I referred in post 401.
"Recent studies (1,2) have found that female relatives of male homosexuals do indeed produce more children (and the same is true of bisexual men)."
1. Camperio-Ciani, A., et al. (2004). Evidence for maternally-inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity. Proceedoings of the Royal Society of London, B 271, 2217-2224.
2. Camperio Ciani, A. (2009). Genetic factors increase fecundity in female maternal relatives of Bisexual men as in homosexuals. Sexual Medicine, 6, 449-455.
Quote from the survey:
"Mothers of gay men produced an average of 2.7 babies compared with 2.3 born to mothers of straight men. And maternal aunts of gay men had 2.0 babies compared with 1.5 born to the maternal aunts of straight men."
You can say it's against nature, I say nothing is against nature. Nature itself is the engine of all things around us in a world of physical and chemical causality
How excactly is this related to anything either I or you was discussing? You said homosexuality is a deadend because they cannot reproduce, I said it was not.
Now you are, with some random quoted text, trying to say that mothers of gay men are more fertile? What has that got to do with anything and what does that prove? Nothing.
From an evolutionary perspective homosexuality is not benefical and hence a defect (that the PARENTS of homosexuals get more babies is not a proof of homosexuality being good or bad). And when I say nature I mean in that context, not some kind of Einsteins unified field theory way (which has still not been proven btw).
Please read the study to which I referred in post 401.
haha, how ironic. You yank my text out of context where I was responding to someone saying that a population needs homosexuality because they DONT reproduce (which they do) and then you quite it with a study showing that parents of homosexual reproduce MORE.
You PC liberals bend anything to your advantage.
How excactly is this related to anything either I or you was discussing? You said homosexuality is a deadend because they cannot reproduce, I said it was not.
Now you are, with some random quoted text, trying to say that mothers of gay men are more fertile? What has that got to do with anything and what does that prove? Nothing.
From an evolutionary perspective homosexuality is not benefical and hence a defect. And when I say nature I mean in that context, not some kind of Einsteins unified field theory way (which has still not been proven btw).
I'm sorry, in what context did you mean the nature? Your view on things? Religious view?
Einstein did not invent causality nor physical and chemical determinism.
I did not bother to respond to your homosexual dead end argument, because I am not gonna speculate how many homosexuals are hiding in a marriage. In the end, Homosexuality is a non-reproducible gene mutation to a large extent and over time the gene should dwindle. Saying "the defected" homosexual gene is only spreading out by married homosexuals is absolutely ridiculous.
I'm sorry, in what context did you mean the nature? Your view on things? Religious view?
Einstein did not invent causality nor physical and chemical determinism.
I did not bother to respond to your homosexual dead end argument, because I am not gonna speculate how many homosexuals are hiding in a marriage. In the end, Homosexuality is a non-reproducible gene mutation to a large extent and over time the gene should dwindle. Saying "the defected" homosexual gene is only spreading out by married homosexuals is absolutely ridiculous.
If it should "dwindle" then why doesnt the gene for so many other non beneficary genes dwindle? And the answer is simple, aslong as they can reproduce it will not dwindle. And homosexuals can reproduce. Period.
However it does not seem to be benefical (rather the opposite since obviously they will be less keen to reproduce), hence it is a defect.
And I have said, on several occasions, in what context I mean nature and it is from an evolutionary context.
"Does not seem to be beneficial" You can't base the whole theory on this assumption can you. The study I referred to is clear and simple. Gay gene increase fertility in female relatives by around 30%. Additionally, we can also speculate about the role in the society. Noone knows whether genes look for combination to favor themselves or the whole "gene community". To base any sort of negativity / hatred / isolation on assumptions is "evil" according to your own religion.
Nothing is against nature in evolutionary context. Evolution by itself created everything including defects, deviations. There is a clear physical and chemical determinism and casuality in everything we can observe around us. It is either an intelligent design, a god, or just an endless chain of chemical reactions with no purpose at all.
Anyone who finds this offensive is mentally rubbed. Any reviewers bashing this concept has shit poor imagination and needs
to find something better to write about. It's a game, bioware do as they want and they're having fun while doing it. I'm not gay, but me and many others including my friends found the gay concept kinda funny... ( zevran lol ) Get a sense of humor.
"Does not seem to be beneficial" You can't base the whole theory on this assumption can you. The study I referred to is clear and simple. Gay gene increase fertility in female relatives by around 30%. Additionally, we can also speculate about the role in the society. Noone knows whether genes look for combination to favor themselves or the whole "gene community". To base any sort of negativity / hatred / isolation on assumptions is "evil" according to your own religion.
Nothing is against nature in evolutionary context. Evolution by itself created everything including defects, deviations. There is a clear physical and chemical determinism and casuality in everything we can observe around us. It is either an intelligent design, a god, or just an endless chain of chemical reactions with no purpose at all.
That study in no way shows that the "gay gene" increases fertility, that is a conclusion YOU are making. What it shows is that the RELATIVES for a homosexual creates more offspring which is not neccessarily the same thing as that the gay gene makes them more reproductive.
For one thing the gay gene has not even been found yet and noone knows what other effects it has beside altering the sexual attraction of an individual.
What is clear is that you PC liberals are using scientific studies to try to push some kind of agenda that homosexuality is "right" or "good" where it is obvious for anyone with any common sense that the lack of sexual attraction for the other sex of a heterosexual species is clearly not benefical.
And evolution, if it has a purpose or not, is a process that produces a genetical production that is more suited to its environment so in that context there certainly are wrong and right combinations of genes. If it wasnt then the theory of darwin would be completely false, which it isnt. It is just incomplete, like many scientific theories. And the basis of that theory is that the individual that produce the more surviving offspring (observe surviving) is the individual that will be most succesful and will have its genes passed on, in an evolutional perspective.
Tell me, how will a homosexual offspring pass on those genes? The answer is simple, it cannot. Unless it is bisexual and homosexuality in itself has not proven to be a positive attribute in any form or sort.
Thats it... I'm all over this elf.. err.. I mean game. Its about time they have some truly gritty content in a game that isn't just gore. Nice work!
I agree, but maybe to an extent it's what they wanted, and maybe Gay Pride can get some positive reactions from this.
It may not be in the light they want, but at least it's out in the open being talked about instead of disappearing into obscurity.
Sometimes when we ask "What were they thinking?", it may be because they knew this was a likely outcome, but they did it anyway because they felt the more important goal was to get the news heard instead of being lost in a news maelstrom.
I mean, because, really, everyone knows what everyone else will think and say, if you present Homosexual material to a gaming community.
"Let us make a special effort to stop communicating with each other, so we can have some conversation." Mark Twain
None of these matters. We are all decedents of one of seven women in Africa. Essentially we are all related, brothers and sisters in the great scheme of life. Fortunately we are not clones, we each have out preferences, interests, and outlook. Life is too short to be wasted in hatred, and anger.
"Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured." Mark Twain
Members of “The finger pointing society should remember, when you point one finger at something, four are pointing back to you. This thread is a prime example of the ignorance and hubris of the American, actually all people.” Don’t confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up.”
Exclusive Homosexuality, like Onanism was a determent of early man. Population was small and for the species to survive it needed to reproduce. Sexual practices that did not contribute to that goal were frowned on. Nonexclusive homosexuality was accepted until the advent of Monotheism and the God of Abraham. The three Religions worshiping that God were responsible for the excoriation of homosexuality. They are the dominant religious movements of this planet. That gives them power. Power to keep women in their place, barefooted and pregnant, stifle scientific development, and force society to conform to a ridged set of rules.
It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand. Mark Twain
There is little connection between Homosexuals and Pedophiles. The vast majority of Pedophiles are Heterosexuals. Cases of pedophilia in the Catholic Church as well as other Religions are more about power than sex. This is the same as Heterosexual Pastors using their position to seduce female member of their congregation.
Genetic and studies of the structure of the brain are reinforcing the theory Homosexuality is not a “choice’ but a part of a persons nature. There is no shame in being “Gay:” you didn’t choose it, your genes did. That being the fact condemnation of Homosexuals is as logical as the condemnation of Blondes with Blue eyes.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. Mark Twain
Games are not the cause of “Children gone wrong”, that responsibility is laid squarely on their parent’s shoulders. No one if holding a gun to parent’s head, and forcing them to allow their children to do anything. This game is “M” rated, that means Mature. People who can’t understand what the term “Mature” means, can be found on “The Jerry Springer Show”
The very fact that this issue is a controversy and given the number of posts showing it is an issue for many, proves quite soundly that modern human civilization is made of pure fail.
We may have great weapons and advanced technology, but there is nothing great or advanced about our closed and narrow minded state of thought.
Humanity needs to get out of the dark ages and grow up.
Not like you have to take part in that activity in the game. But if people don't agree with it or are offended by it that is their right. As far as I know there is nothing that says we have to like each other. We should tolerate each other but does not mean we have to like or accept each other. Everyone has their own values and things they will not tolerate. For me it is pretty simple no alcohol, drugs or tobacco allowed in my home and mess with my kids and I promise pain.
I was going to post a lengthy message but you made my point exactly. There are many instances of Homosexuality in nature, female hyeenas have mock penises and use them. And for the bible thumpers out there..... Well when Jesus was asked what the most important comandment was he said Love each other as you love youeselves and your god. he didnt say a thing about hating anyone.
For all those ok with the homosexual scenes in the game would you still be ok if it had scenes of pedophilia? Both are examples of sexuality outside the "norm". I am just curious.
Lol Coprophillia, necrophillia and pedophilia are not even in the same realm of homosexually.
Seriously you need to grow up.
Lol Coprophillia, necrophillia and pedophilia are not even in the same realm of homosexually.
Seriously you need to grow up.
Alright maybe I went a bit far including coprophillia and necrophillia (which I will go back and edit out) but not so with pedophilia. In one someone is sexually attracted to the member of the same sex and the other someone is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. I was asking a serious question of how far are people ok with games going these days. Would people still be okay if the game had featured the same human male having sex with a 12 year olf elf girl? Or whatever.
What is “Pure fail”? I presume you mean “Pure Evil” anyd you are wrong. People are neither “Good” nor “Evil” they are “Gullible”. That allows demagogues to drive public opinion in the direction beneficial to the demagogues. He vast percentage of the population is concerned with their own lives, do not have the time to study an issue, thus follow the loudest voice they hear, usually from the Pulpit. “You never ask questions when God’s on your side.” Religious hierarchy says their job is to “Tend the Sheep” explains a power relationship. Politicians are no different; they to understand voters can be manipulated by slogans, catch phrases, and fear.
This is not “The Dark Age”, nor unfortunately is it “The Renaissance”, or a period of “Enlightenment”. The “Age of Aquarius” has morphed into “The Age of Hucksters”.
“When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.” Robert A. Heinlein
Pedophilia is a rape. It is involunteer act that can psychologically hurt the child forever.
What is “Pure fail”? I presume you mean “Pure Evil” anyd you are wrong. People are neither “Good” nor “Evil” they are “Gullible”. That allows demagogues to drive public opinion in the direction beneficial to the demagogues. He vast percentage of the population is concerned with their own lives, do not have the time to study an issue, thus follow the loudest voice they hear, usually from the Pulpit. “You never ask questions when God’s on your side.” Religious hierarchy says their job is to “Tend the Sheep” explains a power relationship. Politicians are no different; they to understand voters can be manipulated by slogans, catch phrases, and fear.
This is not “The Dark Age”, nor unfortunately is it “The Renaissance”, or a period of “Enlightenment”. The “Age of Aquarius” has morphed into “The Age of Hucksters”.
“When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.” Robert A. Heinlein
Nice tangent...
Nope, I do not mean pure evil, that is fully your own interpretation. Try again, for I am enjoying your take on this, though you are not seeing what I meant, which is cool in this case, given I agree with your Robert A. Heinlein quote.
As far as your "People are Gullible" stance, I fully agree.
Nice tangent...
Nope, I do not mean pure evil, that is fully your own interpretation. Try again, for I am enjoying your take on this, though you are not seeing what I meant, which is cool in this case, given I agree with your Robert A. Heinlein quote.
As far as your "People are Gullible" stance, I fully agree.
Thanks for the compliment, however I still don't understand what you went by the words "pure fail". Please explain.
Do I have to finish it with "Guard"? For happy kittens.
I really am shocked at how big of a discussion this has become. Mass Effect which is also a Bioware game had the same debates with it when it launched. I personally never had a problem with it and I am probably not the only person that made a female character at some point and then made sure that it hooked up with another female. Even if in Mass Effect the female character was part of a species that was all only one gender, or at least I think thats how it was.
I just don't see the problem and the debate here. I am a straight male, and am fine with those that have alternative lifestyles, and met some very nice homosexual people that I could consider as friends. I am sure none of them would enjoy being counted in the same groups as pedofiles and worse that are being brought up in this topic. They are just normal people who are attracted to people in a way that cuts them off from procreating.
On another note if someone has an issue with homosexual scenes in a game then they should have made different choices while playing. At least in Mass Effect it took some effort to finally hook up with one of the other character, so it is all in the players hands. So if Dragon Age is anything like Mass Effect don't blame it if your character turns gay, it was you that made those choices for it.
Since the topic of Necrophilia has come up. There was was a young Necrophile who grew up to achieve his lifelong dream. He became County Coroner.
Its a HUGE difference between warning people that such content exist instead of removing it. I am sure you are aware of this but you seem to want to make people think Im a bigot by equating the two.
Nice try but gl next time. I said WARN not remove. I for example am against homosexual behaviour since it both goes against my religion and against laws of nature so I have the right to avoid such content and not support companies that produces media abou it. And I have every right to do so, and so has anyone else in a free society. Because that is the flipside of freedom. you have the freedom to avoid content you dont like as well as expressing the ones you do like.
Things like kiddie porn and bestiality is something that is obvious that you dont need to be subjected to (even though the latter is legal in many countries) yet for gay sex I have to be subject to it without given due warning. Why?
The south park referrence was just that it reminded me of focusing on bits that were offensive and that after they were actually removed things got bland.
But you are correct, you said warn. I was not insinuating that you said remove. I questioned whether to mention the South Park reference but the discussion of focusing on bits of games that offended people just "reminded" me of the southpark episode.
I have't read enough of your posts to say if you are a bigot. Merriam Webster says:
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
I know of very religious people who, though they don't like homosexuality, are tolerant of and not judgemental of gays and lesbians. heck, my own mother is a born again christian but her stance on the whole thing is that "god will decide what he will decide and it's none of my business".
Whether or not you should have to be subjected to homosexuality in games? Well, that's a tough one. I say that because I always believe that everyone has the right to live their lives the way they want provided that it doesn't interfere with another's and that they live a lawful life.
but still, I think one mature rating and leaving it up to the individual to find out what that entails is perfectly fine. Again, movies should not have to have a rated R and also a disclaimer that two men or two women are kissing. books should not have to have a rating and a disclaimer that two men or two women are married within the story.
Games are just easing into the same place as other media. I think people who play games can have a myopic view when it comes to realizing that games are just like other media when it comes to their inclusion in the mainstream. Games are growing up. And with that they will experience all the issues that movies and books and music experienced. Part of that is censorhip and ratings.
And yes, I am not for censorship but I am for letting people know that an item has mature content. I don't think one has to spell it out though I could easily see a source that has ratings for all sorts of movies and books and music and goes into detail about what is "inside".
But look there was a time (and I'm sure there are still people who feel this) that a Black woman and a white man kissing might make them sick. I think there is less of that feeling now. But people would claim the very same "it sickens me" reason for not wanting to see it. "Two people of different races should never mingle (what different races in my opinion? We are all one race, just some people have better tans) and it's against nature".
As for me, I'm in a very liberal state and a very liberal city. I see people of the same sex holding hands and kissing quite a bit. At first it was a bit shocking as you don't see it often but after a while it becomes part of the wall paper of life.
but that's not the issue is it. You don't want to see homosexuality in media. I still think that listing every bit of what might possibly be offensive is overkill. I can understand people not wanting to see certan things. Heck, I'd rather see two men or women giving each other a kiss goodbye over two heterosexual people sloppily making out on a park bench.
A mature rating and perhaps in this day and age a website for "more information" should suffice.
Alright maybe I went a bit far including coprophillia and necrophillia (which I will go back and edit out) but not so with pedophilia. In one someone is sexually attracted to the member of the same sex and the other someone is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. I was asking a serious question of how far are people ok with games going these days. Would people still be okay if the game had featured the same human male having sex with a 12 year olf elf girl? Or whatever.
Nice tangent...
Nope, I do not mean pure evil, that is fully your own interpretation. Try again, for I am enjoying your take on this, though you are not seeing what I meant, which is cool in this case, given I agree with your Robert A. Heinlein quote.
As far as your "People are Gullible" stance, I fully agree.
Thanks for the compliment, however I still don't understand what you went by the words "pure fail". Please explain.
I feel bigotry, narrow mindedness,and the gulibility you mentioned as the "Pure Fail."
I feel, as a species, we are failing... we cannot let people be themselves... we are trashing the planet... we are full of greed and corruption... we are more worried about who the other guy sleeps with than minding our own lives...and so on.
I understand that societies must have their rules and strictures, but frankly there are times when I think we are so stunted and primitive in our collective mindset.
Our technology is advancing nicely, but I feel "we" are not. This is a potentially very dangerous state to be in-- one that could be lethal to humanity, or far worse: create such a bleak world that is so full of oppression and aggression that we may well wish that all the hype about 2012 was really true.
World Nut Daily....what more can I say.
And that's the irony of suppression: The tigher you squeeze your grip, the more slip through your fingers--Princess Leia
*waits for WorldNews daily to burn in flames when the gay and lesbian community sees what they said* F*cking morons. They just painted themselves as homophobes. Way to go genius!
This is just to fuel the many prejudice fools into a rage. This will also upset more religious followers then anything, wonder what Westboro Baptist Church would do with this?
I don't even understand why games have ratings anymore, I guess they missed the big M that contained information about sexual activity in the game. I'll never understand people being so uncomfortable with sex.
What I will never, ever in a million years understand is how comfortable we are with violence and how uncomfortable we are with sex. I'm a 30 year old man, but I recall clearly watching vivid news footage of people getting shot and killed in Beirut, Lebanon over 20 years ago. Blood, children dying in the streets, etc. My father had no problem gleefully explaining the violence and war to seven year old child.
However, a sex scene on TV would make both of my parents flush with shame. It was apparently so difficult to explain how adults act when they are in love with one another - and yet so easy to explain how humans beat and murder each other with impunity.
We are a strange, strange species.
I know. Anyone else remember the South Park movie when Klyes mom says "Horrific deplorable violence is ok, as long as you dont say any naughty words while doing it!" This is kinda the same. The sex is NOT "dirty". It's pretty mature really. Methinks homophobes are hiding out at WorldNews and they are gonna get their comeuppance. Start looking for a new job pal! Have fun finding one in this economy. Seriously I would can that guy if I were his boss. His tactless use of words would make Worldnews look like they hate gays and lesbians. He better spew out an appology and fast.
You are definitely the king of the idiot tribe...
I think you're confusing "Christianity" with "the whole world". Acceptance has been the norm untill the monotheistic crusades forced it's views on the rest of the world. You know, the same people who told us the world was flat untill a century ago, and who tell people in Africa to not use condoms and who twisted the concept of religion into a business for their own glory and riches. But they still find time to lecture everyone on "what's right".
Yes and now and then his friends would come over for a cold one.
Funny you would mention "flames" in a remark about homosexuals.
Funny you would mention "flames" in a remark about homosexuals.
Except that I was basically speaking for the homosexuals. The person who described the Dragon Age sex as "dirty gay sex" is going to be in hot water for that.
A Free Press
For A Free People : WND
Change that for
A Free Press
For a Free homophobic People
I think this is just a typical example of our absurd and needlessly bashful approach to anything sexual.
Sex is a completely natural act, whether between a man and a woman or - at the risk of being verbally crucified by the sexually repressed religious fanatics - a man and another man, or a woman and another woman. It's part of humanity's need to be deeply connected to another.
When I discovered you could have heterosexual and homosexual relationships in Dragon Age: Origins, I was very pleased. It's about time a game developer has the balls to break down the walls of sexual taboo brought about by the politically correct and painfully old-fashioned masses. Kudos to Bioware, I say. They've done it not once, but twice!
It amazes me how insanely bashful we are on the subject of sex - PARTICULARLY when it comes to the homosexual side of it. I mean, we live in a world of fifty foot tall billboards adorned with women donning naught but strategically placed scraps of cloth, and sex in just about every nook and cranny of the media.
It's the 21st century. It's about time we start shedding the antiquated social taboos.
Wouldn't the oldest profession in the world be Hunter or Wood-Chopper?
Or some form of getting food.
Prostitution also requires a women to SELL her body for goods/services. I don't even think economy was invented back then. Having sex doesn't make a women a prostitute either.
So I'm sticking with the oldest profession being Hunter-Gatherer, or some form of Leader or Tool-maker.
In fact both man and woman fit within the definition of prostitution, if you choose. I was kidding with a theory on prostitution that some people talk, I will not tell the whole story here, maybe when you listen to it, you can notice the mean.
Enjoy the game, have fun.
Oh my god, get the hell over it media. the game is not aired toward little children it is aired toward the adult thus LABELED M FOR MATURE. when u log onto the site it ask for your birth date.
Another lesson as a parent if a game says mature do not buy it for your little ones. hello i have 4 children. I played the game would i let my children play the game probably not if there not near the age that they fully understand what there seeing.
but the news needs to do there real job examine real life not a fantasy one.
and again the romance in bioware's games are OPTIONAL in other words you can avoid it if you want to
OHH AND COME ON MEDIA IS A FKIN GAME
I LOVE BIOWARE'S GAME FROM KOTOR-DRAGON AGE WOOT GO BIOWARE
You would be correct if we lived in a world/country where parenting was left up to the parents. But parenting is another aspect of our lives that the government has decided to take control of.
You would be correct if we lived in a world/country where parenting was left up to the parents. But parenting is another aspect of our lives that the government has decided to take control of.
You would be correct if we lived in a world/country where parenting was left up to the parents. But parenting is another aspect of our lives that the government has decided to take control of.
When you have people demonstrating superb parenting skills, like for example Sarah Palin, someone has to be the mommy.
When you have people demonstrating superb parenting skills, like for example Sarah Palin, someone has to be the mommy.
rofl awesome reply. to me its common sense but i forgot common sense is not common any more.
So because someone does not agree with you, they should be condemned?? ohh wait, forgot thats how liberals think, be tolerant of everyone that agrees with you and condemn the rest as being intolerant...
Sigh. To think we're living in the 21st c.
Your moral relativism is flawed. It's not ok to turn a tolerant check to bigotry and hate and say "Oh, it's just THEM having THEIR ideas." Sure, tolerance is a key to a civil society, but for issues of hate, prejudice and bigotry, action must be taken.
We in America condemned racism in the 1950s and fought hard to pass the civil rights act. Should we have just not fought and said "Oh, stop being so intolerant of our (racist) prejudice which keep blacks from being equals in America."
Women, too, were institutionally discriminated against in America, until we fought hard in the early 20th c. to get women the vote. Should we have just said "Oh, quite being so intolerant of our views, women should stay home barefoot and pregnant!"
Germany was taking over Europe in the late 1930s. Should we have just said, "Oh, let him go about his business. Just bc YOU don't believe in the Final Solution doesn't mean we shouldn't let people do what they want."
Bigotry, hate, racism and sexual discrimination need to be called out when we see it. But Quicksand, go ahead, accuse me of intolerance all you want. *sigh*
When you have people demonstrating superb parenting skills, like for example Sarah Palin, someone has to be the mommy.
You are right, I sometimes forget that some people feel the need for the U.S. government to tell them what to do and when to do it. As fro your Palin remark, the only problem i have with her is Im afraid she will run as an independent and split the conservative vote which will in turn allow another 4 yrs of government takeovers and intrusion. But as I said, some people need the government to care for them, I am just not one of those.
Oh geez! Adult gamers have an adult game to play. The world is lost!
I haven't played this game, but I'm glad at least a few games are made for adults. Is it really so bad to have some games taliored to people that are out of high school?
I think it's kinda sad that this is even a controversy.
When you have people demonstrating superb parenting skills, like for example Sarah Palin, someone has to be the mommy.
You are right, I sometimes forget that some people feel the need for the U.S. government to tell them what to do and when to do it. As fro your Palin remark, the only problem i have with her is Im afraid she will run as an independent and split the conservative vote which will in turn allow another 4 yrs of government takeovers and intrusion. But as I said, some people need the government to care for them, I am just not one of those.
Sorry i am not one of those ignorant fools that will be led around by the government. I go off my own beliefs of what is right or wrong. I may take advice from the government but it is my choice to listen or turn my head.
i agree with you
Oh geez! Adult gamers have an adult game to play. The world is lost!
I haven't played this game, but I'm glad at least a few games are made for adults. Is it really so bad to have some games taliored to people that are out of high school?
I think it's kinda sad that this is even a controversy.
Because it exists makes it all within the "norm". Whether it becomes or is acceptable behavior within realm of our "society" is something else.
Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. That seemed to be acceptable. Homosexuality in fifth and fourth-century Athens, was integral part of social life.
"Homosexual". It looks like an ancient Greek expression, but word and concept are modern inventions: the expression was coined in 1869 by the Hungarian physician Karoly Maria Benkert (1824-1882). It took several decades for the word to become current. In ancient Greece, there never was a word to describe homosexual practices: they were simply part of aphrodisia, love, which included men and women alike.
However, you trying to equate homosexuality with pedophilia is like comparing apples to oranges.
I boinked Zevran and I'm proud of it. There, I said it.
I say this topic goes over 1000 responces
BioWare just got the Mega publicity for this game they need to make tons of cash on.
Just wait there will soon be a MMO that is only based on sexual activity.
I like how violence gets bemoaned, sometimes.
But something intimate and kind, get's berated.
If these were rape scenes, then the discussion would be solely on context alone.
okay who the F*** is mad about LESBIANS? lesbians are the best
lawl ... well it's single player so you only get to see what you want to see.
Anyone complaining about something is whining about a match they themselves made, i.e. self-inflicted
Alright maybe I went a bit far including coprophillia and necrophillia (which I will go back and edit out) but not so with pedophilia. In one someone is sexually attracted to the member of the same sex and the other someone is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. I was asking a serious question of how far are people ok with games going these days. Would people still be okay if the game had featured the same human male having sex with a 12 year olf elf girl? Or whatever.
Sure it would be because this game is actually set in the middle ages aka the medieval era in which men and women did not live long therefore they started families and got married at young ages. It was not uncommon during that time for children to be having sex and getting married and starting families.
How about sex with your mount? A male elf with his male horse just to keep it interesting. I mean if we are to include children in the mix im sure horses would be acceptable as well.
This is starting to turn absolutely ridiculous.
There is a major difference with sex between two consenting adults compared to Pedophilia and Beastiliaty. It's amazing the lengths people will go to try and prove a dead end point.
This is starting to turn absolutely ridiculous.
There is a major difference with sex between two consenting adults compared to Pedophilia and Beastiliaty. It's amazing the lengths people will go to try and prove a dead end point.
Its good to see someone at least got my point.
Soldiers raping and killing brown people = good.
Polygons having sex scenes totally avoidable by players = bad.
Your so silly, everyone knows violence is acceptable.
Everyone knows that certain people are allowed to do what they well damn please. And also those certain people say that video games ruin lives. All BS and i just tend to ignore those certain people.
No hints towards certain people in my reply :o
I don’t think the idea about sex with a horse is so absurd. If DA was made ten years ago do you think it would have all this sex in it no matter of what type? So in ten years time what will the new sex be that they put in it be to juice it up?
How about shagging an Ogress, but hey that’s a bit lame as she is a humanoid woman. Surely we can be getting are end away with a Centaur Ogre of both sexes in thirty years time?
The argument that it won’t happen, put in the context of historical trends is a false one. Indeed the argument anything can and will happen is the far more likely one. Games/books/TV/films are all in a titillation arms race where shocking consumers gets them air time and making the sex as diverse as possible engages every possible consumer demographic.
So get ready to saddle up cowboys and girls! :)
Using that argument, people shouldn't get angry of crimes because one day society could change and that specific criminal act would be a-ok.
But, once again, the (albeit more subtle) comparison of homosexuality to beastiality works against your argument. One is an act between to consenting adults, while one is involves a partner that is unable to give informed consent. They aren't the same things, and the notion that they are just paints the individual making that claim as either ignorant, or hateful.
Using that argument, people shouldn't get angry of crimes because one day society could change and that specific criminal act would be a-ok.
But, once again, the (albeit more subtle) comparison of homosexuality to beastiality works against your argument. One is an act between to consenting adults, while one is involves a partner that is unable to give informed consent. They aren't the same things, and the notion that they are just paints the individual making that claim as either ignorant, or hateful.
Can Scot or any other poster explain me, what is the difference between a heterosexual intercourse with a protection, masturbation and a homosexual sex? None of these is reproductive. 99.99% of all sexual activities is not reproductive. It's ease to assume, sex (and sexual attraction) has far more "functions" that just the reproduction.
Sex with a horse, pedophilia... is ridiculous to compare. It's a rape one way or another.
Lets get some facts straight.
Dragon Age is a roleplaying video game.
The world of Dragon Age is a 3D fantasy world rendered by a computer component.
The characters of Dragon Age are also 3D replicas rendered by a graphics card.
The game has an M rating, which stands for Mature.
Therefore, any sexual content shown is practically a role, played by the fictional 3D character controlled by a mature person, in a 3D fantasy world rendered by the graphics card of your computer.
This game, or any game for that matter won't make your kid become a homo or a lesbian.
For starters, your kid shouldn't be playing the game in the 1st place.
And to put the last nail on this silly discussion's coffin, your kid shouldn't be exposed to real life if you don't want it to do "bad" things.
Real life is where the problem lies in, video games are a form of entertainment and they don't force people or kids to do things they normally wouldn't.
TV,Internet,Movies and even a walk to the park are way worse than a video game when it comes to "exposure to things like homosexuality".
This reminds me of the non-sense about GTA-IV.
Remember how Nico Belic was supposed to turn teenagers evil and arm them with AK 47s and force them to drive their Porche into oncoming traffic?
Yeah, i'm still laughing too.
Real men have sex with dragons.......female dragons.
Actually it has been said that in Dragon Age: Origins all the dragons are females and the Drakes are males...because if you think about it...all those dragons you do meet (including the archdemon) are females.
Actually it has been said that in Dragon Age: Origins all the dragons are females and the Drakes are males...because if you think about it...all those dragons you do meet (including the archdemon) are females.
Ok I will use a different sword on the Drakes then.
Well said I must say.
Why are people getting upset with this? Good grief we been seeing trailers for DAO with Morrigan in virtually every one pretty much "getting it on" with the player. Bioware been pushing the sex angle in this game HARD (no pun intended) even to the point of showing it off in the demo of the game. Yes, not the combat, but the fact you can bang Morrigan. Then people get all upset when ... there is sex depicted in the game. Ooookaayyyy.
Couse as I said before, the scene is rather tame compared to Mass Effect's. Not that ME's was that racy to begin with either.
I found the Maximum, very innovative this system of relationships in the game, depending on the skill you I can move.
To all the people talking about the US Government, let me give you a brief lesson in your own country's political system:
We are a government by the people, for the people. We're a representative democracy, a republic, which means that while the people do not control power directly, we do elect officials to, in essence, speak for us.
What makes US government radically different from the British monarchy that came before it was that ANYBODY could become a representative - in the beginning, white land owners. But now? Anyone can run for office. Anyone can become a representative. That people have a hate and fear of a government made up of our cousins, brothers, sisters, parents, and loved ones just absolutely amazes me. Politicians are simply people who wanted to go into the job of representing the people - some for pure reasons, some for impure and selfish reasons. Just like with any job. There are doctors who get into medicine because they want to help people, and there are doctors that get into medicine because they like the idea of having power over others and a huge paycheck. Our elected officials are no different.
"Government" telling you what to do is, in reality, we the people voting for people to represent us. If you think you could do a better job of representing the masses, by all means - run for office. Many people get involved in politics at a local level, at the state or even city level representatives. You don't have to be "born of noble blood" in the United States to run for office; we have no House of Lords or anything resembling a noble lineage. (Yes, despite the occasional politically powerful family.)
"Government" isn't a separate entity in the US - "Government" is every man and woman in this country working to serve the populace of the United States through seeing that the wishes of their people are met. The fact that this is a very large country with many different opinions doesn't change that; Government jobs aren't reserved for kings, queens, or a noble class - anyone can literally become any government official they want in this country provided they have the experience for it and the backing of their voters.
This "government" involvement in what is appropriate in a game is simply an argument in our society over what some people feel is appropriate trying to impose their views (through their elected officials) on other people who do not share those views - same as pro-choice people trying to impose their views on pro-life people; same as pro tax-cut people trying to impose their views on pro-tax increase & spend people... etc.
Sex-positive people are irritated that Victorian prudes are trying to limit art. That is what this boils down to. Games are indeed an art form; a form of storytelling, and the prudish among society have been trying to cover up genitals with a fig leaf since before we can remember. (Didn't Ashcroft do just that in the Justice Department, taking a work of art statue and draping cloth over it because of his own fear and hatred of anything sexual?)
The battle carries on but the more progressive and enlightened will always win out in the end; change and growth are the nature of things.
IMHO, there should be no restrictions on games content like this, BUT, the sales of such games need to be much stricter mandated. No more 13 year olds going into the game store and walking out with games that should carry an R rating.
A consenting adult should be able to play a game that apeals to them whether or not the topics in it are adult or not.
I don't think it's the ratings fault. I don't think any 13-year old can walk into a game store and buy this game because I'm pretty sure it has a Mature rating. I would agree that any game like this shouldn't have anything less than a Mature rating, but any kid's getting their hands on this particular game, it's not the game rater's fault and it's not the game developer's fault. It's the parent who either didn't look at the rating or didn't care what rating it had.
I vote more gay sex in games! ^_^
lawl. ^_^ well, i can't say thats what im into, but i will say that i vote for more sex in games, period.
I know my view on this article is a little outdated but I have no issue with the choice for whatever reason for someone to chose to have gay sex in DA. If I was homosexual in RL then I should be able to pursue that in the game as an option if the game offers sexual choices .For many people they consider gay sex as an aberration but to be honest I see this as hypocritical as they are fine with mass killings ,magic ,assassinations of innocents ,unadulterated heterosexual sex and every other deviance except “gay sex “
I find it very refreshing and admire EA/Bioware for including this in the game as this is clearly a controversial decision for some :)
Well obviously I am ignorant and hateful as I don’t have your point of view.
I was not being entirely serious, sorry about that as this is such an important issue and we all have to be sooo serious about it don’t we?
I was not making the argument that any crime today is fine because it will be seen as alright tomorrow. I was parodying the process that leads games to be more of a sexual stew as time goes on. But humour, when it has to be explained, seems so boring.
Using your argument, any act by consenting adults is fine, so I guess that includes a lovers suicide pact? Hopefully you can see that life is not so easy to boil down into such simple axioms as that.
I also do love the ridiculous stereotypes being perpetuated by the made up words that sprinkle this thread. Sex-positive people and Victorian prudes….oh come on how value weighted is that? Making up words and expressions which give the concepts the moral spin you want is quite ridiculous.
Do Sex-positive people want to see more tentacle sex, do Victorian Prudes want to remain chaste? Such nonsense just leads to a polarisation of views and a us and them mentality.
Even Persona is rated Mature, and it doesn't have any scenes of sex or something O.o
People take it too seriously just because the game has a gay-relationship...
It's a great game overall, and you didn't write anything about the gameplay >.>
I'm beginning to think that a lot of mmorpg.com is pathetic, I see so many comparisons of video games to real life, which is exactly the reason this kind of argument even happens. A game is just that, A GAME.
And to answer your question, as much as I'd think the two involved in the pact are a bunch of freaking morons, it's their life, their decisions and is not harming anything not involved, so let the morons go for it. It's not yours or mine own job to police the rest of the world from themselves.
Your moral relativism is flawed. It's not ok to turn a tolerant check to bigotry and hate and say "Oh, it's just THEM having THEIR ideas." Sure, tolerance is a key to a civil society, but for issues of hate, prejudice and bigotry, action must be taken.
We in America condemned racism in the 1950s and fought hard to pass the civil rights act. Should we have just not fought and said "Oh, stop being so intolerant of our (racist) prejudice which keep blacks from being equals in America."
Women, too, were institutionally discriminated against in America, until we fought hard in the early 20th c. to get women the vote. Should we have just said "Oh, quite being so intolerant of our views, women should stay home barefoot and pregnant!"
Germany was taking over Europe in the late 1930s. Should we have just said, "Oh, let him go about his business. Just bc YOU don't believe in the Final Solution doesn't mean we shouldn't let people do what they want."
Bigotry, hate, racism and sexual discrimination need to be called out when we see it. But Quicksand, go ahead, accuse me of intolerance all you want. *sigh*
Big difference in the examples you are talking about peoples basic rights were being transgressed against. They were being denied representation in government, physicaly harmed even murdered.
All the author did was describe gay sex as being "dirty". That is merely voicing an opinion/belief. Last time I checked expressing your opinions/beliefs was considered a constitutionaly protected right, even when they are "offensive".
You have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.... you don't have a right to freedom from "offense".
So go ahead and "condemn" him verbally if you want.... you certainly have the right to express that OPINION.... just like he has a right to express his opinion. However that's where both of your rights END. He doesn't have a right to impose his values on you ... and you don't have a right to impose yours on him.
P.S. Discrimination is actually a fairly natural part of the human condition. It's an inherited survival mechanism from way back in our history. We ALL have it to some degree in some form or another.... even those who decry it the loudest. Basicaly one monkey see's another monkey eat a red berry with yellow leaves and fall over dead. That monkey is going to assume from there on out that ALL red berries with yellow leaves are poisonous and to be avoided. That may be far from the truth, as there may be many non-poisonous varities of red berries with yellow leaves. However, for a monkey that has no ability to tell one variety from another.... it's a pretty decent survival mechanism to treat all such berries the same. At it's heart, that's where discrimination stems from....making generalizations based on superficial outward qualities and anecdotal experiences. That's not saying it's a good thing or that it shouldn't be argued against..... just that we should understand the basis for it. Our instincts will cause us to FEEL a certain way based upon such preconceptions. The key is not to let our emtional reactions dictate our actions.
For example, if you were constantly bullied as a small child by some-one who always wore a blue shirt..... you WILL (likely) develop a negative emotional reaction to people wearing blue shirts when you are an adult. You'll FEEL that, regardless of whether you like it or not...and those feelings will be real. What matters is what you DO with those feelings. When you are walking down the street and see some-one wearing a blue shirt do you shrug and say "yeah blue shirts really skeeve me out... but he's probably an ok guy anyways"..... or do you walk over and punch the guy in the face.
Nice post, but in reality the Founding Fathers were just as concerned about a "tyranny of the majority" as they were a "tyranny of the monarch". That's why we aren't a simple democracy (like many of the Greek City States were) but a Constitutional Republic. The rights of individuals are recognized by our Constitution (note I said "recognized" not established....as the Founders believed that such rights were inherent and inalienable... granted from God or nature.... not from society or government) and the limits of Governments power to impose upon them were established. It's also why a simple act of Congress (by majority vote and signed by the President) can NOT supercede any of the limitations established by the Constitution. The Founders recognized the fact that the Constitution might need to be amended from time to time....but the mechanism they provided for such was purposefully NOT simple or easy...and required far more then just a majority to enact.
Futhermore, the Framers recognized the basic axiom that power corrupts... even in a representative government. Let's remember that England, at the time of the Revolution, WAS a limited Monarchy. It was the Kings Ministers (who many of the colonists viewed as corrupt) that evoked the anger of the populace as much or more then the King himself. That's why we have different branch's of government....with competeing sets of powers....designed to act as check upon the powers of the other branches of government.
Our system is pretty good (which is why it has been relatively stable)....however it's still far from perfect....and frankly Government as an institution has VASTLY increased it's power from that which it held in the beggining and continualy eroded those limitations on the power over individual citizens.
Note that the proper relationship between the individual and society (as represented by government) has been one of the most important topics of political discourse in western society for centuries. Finding the proper balance between the competeing interests of each...is pretty much the heart of political discourse. The fact that we have a representative government doesn't actually change that....just helps determines who represents the interests of society.
Tell the writers to read the rating before they start there liberal rants about games, then remove anyone who bought the game for there underage kid with out reading the rating, out of the gene pool and were all good to go.
Ratings are there for a reason, they spend a lot of money getting and giving out ratings to ignore them as a journalist or a parent shows how ignorante they are to the world of gaming, as journalists they SHOULD know better but in this case obviously not, as parents you should at least give the pretense that you are raising your child and watching what they are doing, hell you wouldn't let them buy a porno (I hope) but you will let them buy an M rated game....
/rant off
As someone who has a formal education in psychology your example is piss poor.
Anyways, what we are talking about here with this form of discrimination is SOCIAL CONDITIONING, not CLASSICAL CONDITIONING which is related to behaviorism and not social psychology. Social conditioning is when your culture conditions you to believe gays are icky, evil, or "dirty." Since it is apart of social conditioning and not CC, then society (other people) need to set norms to change this social conditioning (changed to, "being gay is just part of human variation"). So the guy you are complaining about has the correct response, creating new norms that make those people, who believe gays are icky, social deviants outside the norm.
You have the incorrect response, but I am sure it is only because you are ignorant of social psychology.
---Oh and I bought this game without even knowing the controversy, glad I bought it as I support the elimination of censorship in video games.
Nice post, but in reality the Founding Fathers were just as concerned about a "tyranny of the majority" as they were a "tyranny of the monarch". That's why we aren't a simple democracy (like many of the Greek City States were) but a Constitutional Republic. The rights of individuals are recognized by our Constitution (note I said "recognized" not established....as the Founders believed that such rights were inherent and inalienable... granted from God or nature.... not from society or government) and the limits of Governments power to impose upon them were established. It's also why a simple act of Congress (by majority vote and signed by the President) can NOT supercede any of the limitations established by the Constitution. The Founders recognized the fact that the Constitution might need to be amended from time to time....but the mechanism they provided for such was purposefully NOT simple or easy...and required far more then just a majority to enact.
Futhermore, the Framers recognized the basic axiom that power corrupts... even in a representative government. Let's remember that England, at the time of the Revolution, WAS a limited Monarchy. It was the Kings Ministers (who many of the colonists viewed as corrupt) that evoked the anger of the populace as much or more then the King himself. That's why we have different branch's of government....with competeing sets of powers....designed to act as check upon the powers of the other branches of government.
Our system is pretty good (which is why it has been relatively stable)....however it's still far from perfect....and frankly Government as an institution has VASTLY increased it's power from that which it held in the beggining and continualy eroded those limitations on the power over individual citizens.
Note that the proper relationship between the individual and society (as represented by government) has been one of the most important topics of political discourse in western society for centuries. Finding the proper balance between the competeing interests of each...is pretty much the heart of political discourse. The fact that we have a representative government doesn't actually change that....just helps determines who represents the interests of society.
Not sure where you disagree with anything I said; but kudos for being so well spoken.
What secret?
I know the romance options to inlcude the sex but its no secret last I checked it was on the label and I know I heard/saw teasing of the romance options in the game well before release and its not nude well not without a mod, some good nude mods now natural bodies fix it right up . . . back to the point it was no secret, not hiden, not new and not the only opportunity for sex in the game or other games, movies, books and music. Liek any other form of media if you dont like the content then dont consume it if you do then pay for it dont pirate it and enjoy.
I for one dont think the game needs the M rating, yes there is plenty of blood and the killing the kid is defently a 17+ thing but M? perhaps I'm not think clearly but M seems like it should be reserved for more brutal games when I can kill my target then skull Fu*& it that gets an M rating when romance options include BDSM with fully detailed penitration that gets an M rating or woce yet rap that is a bit harsh perhaps for the 17 and over market but a little off colored hummor and a few chase romantic love clips is by no means M even the bit where you kill the possesed boy isn't graphicly done granted the idea of killing a child is a bit harsh but its not half as graphic or grimy as R moves or even Showtime after 9pm.
Not sure why game catches so much hell with this, kids are requiered to read books that have some very matur content in them, they are rightfuly thought of as clasics, when a move it does it, its a bit less accepted but still accepted for 17 or older but if a game 2 adult character dry humping with their undies on its a no go. My only comment to the dev is that I am disapointed they didn't have full nudity, I dont expect penatration I dont need porn in games I have the net thank you but it is a bit imersion breaking to see a bra on a midevel-esk avatar much less while she is in bed even far less when she is in bed getting laid grow some balls then draw them on my male avatar earn that M rating ESRB tagged you with.
grin...
I just wanted to state that pornography is nothing more then the writings about prostitutes..
And that everything else falls under the deffinition of erotica.
The word Pornography wasn't introduced into an english dictionary until 1857 and at that time the word ment what it ment originaly "the writting material about prostitution or prositutes"
The word originates as a greek word Pornographos and that is what it means.. Writing about prustitutes or prostitution...
The convertion of Pornography from being information on prostitutes to being sexual acts deplected for pleasure didn't come about untill 1975.
I would also like to point out that, While sexualy explitic materials have been arround for many years... It wasn't untill the end of the 1700's and the beginning of the 1800's that "Pornographic" (as we know of it now adays) material began to be soely produced for the reason of sexual arousel and didn't truely come to the masses untill the mid 1800's before this time, most pornigraphic matireals was writing as a way to provoke a responce from political powers. It was used for shock value to bring to the front the wrongs of the Ruling Power.
Also... We owe all of what we find to be Pornographic to a man named Marquis de Sade he was the true inventor of what we call pornography to day, he wrote about every deviant sexual act that could be exicuted with the human body...
Also.. another thing i want to point out... Homosexuality was an excepted and openily practiced form of human sexuality. This wasn't really forced out of socity untill later in history. And that even in the early pornographic (useing the term as we know it today well close to as we know it today), before the mid 1800's women were not deplicted as villions but as heroins, and where given more control over there destinies and there freedom of sexualities then in any time after.
And to close with... i would love to do a little bashing of my own... Constantine I
probably has been several times but seriously thats why theres ratings on games and if the parents are letting there kids play video games which have a mature rating. then please go call childrens services on em or something but get of biowares back. they made an epic game.
It appears that for WorldNewsDaily, the most pressing issue in the "World" is a digital enactment of gay sex. Um.. Yea, let me see, but it appears to me that WorldNewsDaily has employeed a staff of complete idiots. A video game is more pressing that looming terrorist attacks, a terrible economy, and sky-rocketing unemployment, (And that is just in the United States)? I don't think so.
I do know something, I have never heard of WorldNewsDaily before I read this post. And judging from the quality of what their priorities are, they will continue to remain in obscurity.
here is a email i sent to the writer of that so called article
"First of all I would like to point out a few lines from your very own article, It has a "Mature" rating. That line is self explanatory.
In one video clip posted online, a player selects the role-playing option, "I want to discuss something personal." Ok are you speaking from your experience of playing the game or someone else's experience? If not your own then you truly can not comment on anything about the game. If the player selects the response, "I suspect we are," the elf agrees to have homosexual sex with the character. There you yourself said IF THE PLAYER SELECTS. If someone is a homophobe as i suspect you are then why would you select it? I honestly do not understand all the homophobia. The mature rating is there for a reason and people like you should not even bother with mature game ratings because you apparently can not handle anything maturely. Now if the game did not give you a choice and conformation about the choice then i can see why someone would have a problem with it. Why would you ask a male character if you are playing a male character to go the tent with you?
And then you comment on other things which you should not because you have not played the game your self and if you had you would not make the assumptions you have already In another YouTube clip of a role-playing scene, a young boy possessed by a demon declares, "You'll never win! You'll never take him! He's mine!"
The child is slain, and a female demon with horns and a tail emerges from his corpse. there is a choice where you can sacrifice the mother to save the child or you can go to the mages tower and get the mages to help so no one dies.
And again i will quote you It has a "Mature" rating."
Post the reply then please, altho I doubt there'll be any. Probably not even read.
You know what I am sick of? Retailers and people of this world acting as if video games are just for children. I am a 29 year old male and I have been playing video games my entire life. I enjoy doing it in my free time. I prefer to play video games as a hobby rather than go play golf or something. How come it's fine for Wal-Mart to sell rated R movies but a rated M video game always causes some big controversy? I got news for you media, the big spenders on video games these days are in the 25-29 age group, and there is no reason you should be crying over a video games that were rated appropriately. It's as stupid as if you were against Wal-Mart selling rated R movies, or any other retailer for that matter. Grow the hell up.
On another note, why is it in American culture (if you can call it that) that it is alright for a movie to spill blood and guts everywhere, mutilations, murders, rape, torture, you name it.... but sex is something unnatural that should be left out of movies? What the hell? Sex is unnatural but we can watch movies where people are tortured and murdered in cold blood, and with gory realism I might add. Let me repeat that one more time, murder is natural but sex isn't. What is wrong with you people?
Bravo Bioware
Shame on the "moral majority"
Maybe they are not the majority any longer
Nuff said
PC game of the Year.
Screw you 700 Club.
Gay sex is unnatural but in a fantasy game it has its place along with elves, dwarves and gnomes.
Hehe...toons are hot.
Heh, I try to keep my views on homosexuality to myself.
I just found it funny that someone named Grandpagamer would say this aload on a public forum.
My grandfather was the same way but he was 85 and stuck to the old ways.
Alright maybe I went a bit far including coprophillia and necrophillia (which I will go back and edit out) but not so with pedophilia. In one someone is sexually attracted to the member of the same sex and the other someone is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. I was asking a serious question of how far are people ok with games going these days. Would people still be okay if the game had featured the same human male having sex with a 12 year olf elf girl? Or whatever.
Sure it would be because this game is actually set in the middle ages aka the medieval era in which men and women did not live long therefore they started families and got married at young ages. It was not uncommon during that time for children to be having sex and getting married and starting families.
Wasn't the life expectancy around 35-40 back in the ancient greek days? I think marraige and having children might have been from a very young age considering you could probably die from a scratch and a secondary infection.
Oh, and one more thing, @ Alienshirt, pedo's are not just gay, some are straight too. Bad comparison you're making to Homosexuality.
Heh, I try to keep my views on homosexuality to myself.
I just found it funny that someone named Grandpagamer would say this aload on a public forum.
My grandfather was the same way but he was 85 and stuck to the old ways.
Well I will expand on my thought. Nature or God whichever you choose to believe in used the act of sex to propagate the species. The sexual urge and enjoyment of the act insures this continuation of the species. Gay sex has no benefit to the propagation of the species. I personally do not care what you put where but to say its a natural act is denying the reason for the act being implemented in nature.
Well I will expand on my thought. Nature or God whichever you choose to believe in used the act of sex to propagate the species. The sexual urge and enjoyment of the act insures this continuation of the species. Gay sex has no benefit to the propagation of the species. I personally do not care what you put where but to say its a natural act is denying the reason for the act being implemented in nature.
I understand. I wasn't trying to slam you or anything. Just saying I thought it was funny due to your name and the relation to my grandfather (may he rest in peace) and how he acted in public to homosexuality.
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and honestly that's as far as I want to go into the conversation on a public forum.
Well I will expand on my thought. Nature or God whichever you choose to believe in used the act of sex to propagate the species. The sexual urge and enjoyment of the act insures this continuation of the species. Gay sex has no benefit to the propagation of the species. I personally do not care what you put where but to say its a natural act is denying the reason for the act being implemented in nature.
I understand. I wasn't trying to slam you or anything. Just saying I thought it was funny due to your name and the relation to my grandfather (may he rest in piece) and how he acted in public to homosexuality.
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and honestly that's as far as I want to go into the conversation on a public forum.
I understand and seriously take the comparison to your grandfather as a compliment. He sounds like the kind of man I could enjoy being around. Ive never been afraid to speak my mind and being politically correct has never been something on my to do list.
Well I will expand on my thought. Nature or God whichever you choose to believe in used the act of sex to propagate the species. The sexual urge and enjoyment of the act insures this continuation of the species. Gay sex has no benefit to the propagation of the species. I personally do not care what you put where but to say its a natural act is denying the reason for the act being implemented in nature.
Following your logic, everything except reproduction is useless. Why do we actually eat and breathe? We should just born, reproduce, and die.
As I said earlier, sex has far more functions than just a sole reproduction. If you don't think so, then stop masturbating in your free time or having protected sex with your girlfriend - because that's unnatural as well.
Well I will expand on my thought. Nature or God whichever you choose to believe in used the act of sex to propagate the species. The sexual urge and enjoyment of the act insures this continuation of the species. Gay sex has no benefit to the propagation of the species. I personally do not care what you put where but to say its a natural act is denying the reason for the act being implemented in nature.
Actually it has one benefit. Overpopulation. It's nature's way of controlling human growth... Think about it... 6 billion people living in a world that has food to sustain only 1 billion. And you think that science came out of the blue? Necessity brought Humanity to the industrial revolution, so that we could in turn feed an over-populated human species.
A study also shows that 20% of most mammal species practice homosexuality.
And yet people still says "unnatural". I think it's more of a religous excuse, and people only say it's unatural only due to the social programming of religious institutions.
Well I will expand on my thought. Nature or God whichever you choose to believe in used the act of sex to propagate the species. The sexual urge and enjoyment of the act insures this continuation of the species. Gay sex has no benefit to the propagation of the species. I personally do not care what you put where but to say its a natural act is denying the reason for the act being implemented in nature.
Following your logic, everything except reproduction is useless. Why do we actually eat and breathe? We should just born, reproduce, and die.
As I said earlier, sex has far more functions than just a sole reproduction. If you don't think so, then stop masturbating in your free time or having protected sex with your girlfriend - because that's unnatural as well.
Eating and breathing is necessary for survival as is reproductive sex. I didnt say I didnt enjoy sex, in fact I stated why it was enjoyable. Masterbation is a release to the natural urge that cannot be fulfilled with a partner. And sonny, granny and I havnt had protected sex in decades ;)
Thus is oral and anal sex unnatural and wrong? It's not used for propagation.
Thus is masturbation wrong, it's not used for propagation.
Thus is marriage wrong, it's a hinder to propagation.
The fact that several species has homosexual experiences isn't of interest i take it?
/Y
Eating and breathing is necessary for survival as is reproductive sex. I didnt say I didnt enjoy sex, in fact I stated why it was enjoyable. Masterbation is a release to the natural urge that cannot be fulfilled with a partner. And sonny, granny and I havnt had protected sex in decades ;)
Kinda inappropriate to call me sonny if you don't know my age.
Funny, that you now believe what psychologists has to say about masturbation, but you don't listen or believe them when they talk about homosexuality. It rather seems like you listen to the church instead of reason.
Homosexual sex has no value to the propagation of the species. Sex is how nature chose for man and the lower animals to reproduce. The fact that the lower animals have non productive relationships does little to validate the practice of such. Im not a doctor so do not know why the condition exists but do know that if it were the normal state of things the human race would have died out long ago.
Kinda inappropriate to call me sonny if you don't know my age.
Funny, that you now believe what psychologists has to say about masturbation, but you don't listen or believe them when they talk about homosexuality. It rather seems like you listen to the church instead of reason.
Ive stated my thoughts on the subject and have no idea what psychologists have to say about anything. Ive never been one to adhere to organized religion. I will leave you with a question. Is it reasonable to think that non productive sex is what nature/God had in mind when creating the need for two sexes to reproduce? Justify it however you want but calling gay sex "natural" is not accurate.
Homosexual sex has no value to the propagation of the species. Sex is how nature chose for man and the lower animals to reproduce. The fact that the lower animals have non productive relationships does little to validate the practice of such. Im not a doctor so do not know why the condition exists but do know that if it were the normal state of things the human race would have died out long ago.
You just admitted you don't know much about it, yet you dared to call it unnatural. How can something based on chemical and physical reactions be called unnatural? Nature itself and evolution led to the point, that homosexuality is spread among the population.
Sex has not a sole purpose of reproduction. Sex and sexual attraction is the strongest positive feeling an individual can experience. Homosexual behaviour is frequently observed in animals so you can't say it's an effect of certain "twisted and unnatural" human minds. It's there and it survives the natural selection in a high rate, much higher (thousand times) than the most spread genetic defects.
Noone even knows whether it's nature or nurture or combination of both that causes beings behave like homosexuals, noone knows whether gene looks for combination to favor its own, or favor the genes in the whole "community" to improve the gene mutiations for the future. Nothing is certain in today's science. And I repeat, if you think gay sex is unnatural, then any kind of sex including masturbation is unnatural which doesn't lead to a baby.
You just admitted you don't know much about it, yet you dared to call it unnatural. How can something based on chemical and physical reactions be called unnatural? Nature itself and evolution led to the point, that homosexuality is spread among the population.
Sex has not a sole purpose of reproduction. Sex and sexual attraction is the strongest positive feeling an individual can experience. Homosexual behaviour is frequently observed in animals so you can't say it's an effect of certain "twisted and unnatural" human minds. It's there and it survives the natural selection in a high rate, much higher (thousand times) than the most spread genetic defects.
Noone even knows whether it's nature or nurture or combination of both that causes beings behave like homosexuals, noone knows whether gene looks for combination to favor its own, or favor the genes in the whole "community" to improve the gene mutiations for the future. Nothing is certain in today's science. And I repeat, if you think gay sex is unnatural, then any kind of sex including masturbation is unnatural which doesn't lead to a baby.
The sexual urge is the urge to seek out a mate and reproduce. Chemical imbalance may be the cause of homosexual behavior or it could be a defective gene. As I said, I do not know, but the reason for sex ultimately is to reproduce and one does not need a degree to understand the concept.
Homosexual sex has no value to the propagation of the species. Sex is how nature chose for man and the lower animals to reproduce. The fact that the lower animals have non productive relationships does little to validate the practice of such. Im not a doctor so do not know why the condition exists but do know that if it were the normal state of things the human race would have died out long ago.
I disagree, I think we are heading to an increase in Homosexual humans. My theory... man is at least a 4 million year old species, dating back to Ardepithicus Ramidus; a partially tree-dwelling, but up-right bipedal primate. Back then, the females would only have sex with males who were the most resourcseful males who were the best terrestrial food gatherers. Hence, this causes our earliest ancestors to develop less agressive and more social behaviour in order to procreate. This highly developed set of social behaviours 4 million years in the making brings us to present day over-population of our species. Mind you Homosexuality might not only be a product of nature puting the "reproductive reigns" on us, but might also stem from the fact that 4 million years of social evolution, as well as the domestication produced a more intelligent male, and socially more evolved male in the Homosexual. Nature being nature increases our brain size as well as evolving and domesticating us into a more socially advanced animal. I mean lets' face it, the proof is in the pudding, and that pudding being 6 billion people need to live together in peace and harmony, which in we had to develop social skills and habits in order just to get along and continue to successfully survive as the dominant animal species on this planet (ergo our numbers alone prove that).
What we could be seeing in the far future might be a human world that Homosexuality is the predominant majority. And you say that if this happens, this could be the end of the human race? Did you forget science? Artifical Insemination? Did you know most gay couples don't adopt but have planned biological children using said aforementioned methods.
I theorize as population increases nature has 2 solutions to the problem, yes Homosexuality is one, but it's also 2 fold, in that it servers a secondary purpose of providing a male of supperior intellegence and socially less agressive and cooperative human... This has to be the natural outcome eventually as we humans continue to over-populate a world that has long since been outgrown since the industrial revolution.
I'm sorry to say but eventually straight men will be a thing of the past, as our species continues towards a more sociable, less agressive species, and this natural imperative will most likly happen as a necessity for all humans to live in peace with one another.
For the record, I am a straight man, but even I can't deny the evolutionary patterns layed out empyrically throughout human history (and dating back to our 4 million year old roots to Ardepithicus Ramidus).
I disagree, I think we are heading to an increase in Homosexual humans. My theory... man is at least a 4 million year old species, dating back to Ardepithicus Ramidus; a partially tree-dwelling, but up-right bipedal primate. Back then, the females would only have sex with males who were the most resourcseful males who were the best terrestrial food gatherers. Hence, this causes our earliest ancestors to develop less agressive and more social behaviour in order to procreate. This highly developed set of social behaviours 4 million years in the making brings us to present day over-population of our species. Mind you Homosexuality might not only be a product of nature puting the "reproductive reigns" on us, but might also stem from the fact that 4 million years of social evolution, as well as the domestication produced a more intelligent male, and socially more evolved male in the Homosexual. Nature being nature increases our brain size as well as evolving and domesticating us into a more socially advanced animal. I mean lets' face it, the proof is in the pudding, and that pudding being 6 billion people need to live together in peace and harmony, which in we had to develop social skills and habits in order just to get along and continue to successfully survive as the dominant animal species on this planet (ergo our numbers alone prove that).
What we could be seeing in the far future might be a human world that Homosexuality is the predominant majority. And you say that if this happens, this could be the end of the human race? Did you forget science? Artifical Insemination? Did you know most gay couples don't adopt but have planned biological children using said aforementioned methods.
I theorize as population increases nature has 2 solutions to the problem, yes Homosexuality is one, but it's also 2 fold, in that it servers a secondary purpose of providing a male of supperior intellegence and socially less agressive and cooperative human... This has to be the natural outcome eventually as we humans continue to over-populate a world that has long since been outgrown since the industrial revolution.
I'm sorry to say but eventually straight men will be a thing of the past, as our species continues towards a more sociable, less agressive species, and this natural imperative will most likly happen as a necessity for all humans to live in peace with one another.
For the record, I am a straight man, but even I can't deny the evolutionary patterns layed out empyrically throughout human history (and dating back to our 4 million year old roots to Ardepithicus Ramidus).
So, in a nut shell. All of humanity will be gay having test tube babies as nature designed.
The sexual urge is the urge to seek out a mate and reproduce. Chemical imbalance may be the cause of homosexual behavior or it could be a defective gene. As I said, I do not know, but the reason for sex ultimately is to reproduce and one does not need a degree to understand the concept.
Let's assume it's a gene defect. Wouldn't millenium sort that out? By your own words - it's a dead end, non reproducive behaviour. Yet it still keeps the same ratio among the population. Do you believe, that it is spread out by homosexuals that hide in a marriage? If you do, there's really no need to go on further with this discussion, because that's just ridiculous - how would it spread out in animals then?
Or do you believe, it's not a single gay gene, but rather a combination of genes, that have different functions? Or how about it's a gene that increases fertility in females as shown by latest research (a female relative to gay male had 40% more kids in average. Wouldn't that actually prove that gene's purpose is not only to reproduce but also to increase the chance of survival of its future generations? Do you think it's non genetical, but instead psychologic - effect of twisted and unnatural human mind? Again, explain the animal behaviour then.
Sure, you can rule out every single research and indication that supports that homosexual behavior in a way improves the gene survivability and its future gene generations, by saying - it's just a homosexual propaganda. But at your age, I would expect a little more.
I disagree, I think we are heading to an increase in Homosexual humans. My theory... man is at least a 4 million year old species, dating back to Ardepithicus Ramidus; a partially tree-dwelling, but up-right bipedal primate. Back then, the females would only have sex with males who were the most resourcseful males who were the best terrestrial food gatherers. Hence, this causes our earliest ancestors to develop less agressive and more social behaviour in order to procreate. This highly developed set of social behaviours 4 million years in the making brings us to present day over-population of our species. Mind you Homosexuality might not only be a product of nature puting the "reproductive reigns" on us, but might also stem from the fact that 4 million years of social evolution, as well as the domestication produced a more intelligent male, and socially more evolved male in the Homosexual. Nature being nature increases our brain size as well as evolving and domesticating us into a more socially advanced animal. I mean lets' face it, the proof is in the pudding, and that pudding being 6 billion people need to live together in peace and harmony, which in we had to develop social skills and habits in order just to get along and continue to successfully survive as the dominant animal species on this planet (ergo our numbers alone prove that).
What we could be seeing in the far future might be a human world that Homosexuality is the predominant majority. And you say that if this happens, this could be the end of the human race? Did you forget science? Artifical Insemination? Did you know most gay couples don't adopt but have planned biological children using said aforementioned methods.
I theorize as population increases nature has 2 solutions to the problem, yes Homosexuality is one, but it's also 2 fold, in that it servers a secondary purpose of providing a male of supperior intellegence and socially less agressive and cooperative human... This has to be the natural outcome eventually as we humans continue to over-populate a world that has long since been outgrown since the industrial revolution.
I'm sorry to say but eventually straight men will be a thing of the past, as our species continues towards a more sociable, less agressive species, and this natural imperative will most likly happen as a necessity for all humans to live in peace with one another.
For the record, I am a straight man, but even I can't deny the evolutionary patterns layed out empyrically throughout human history (and dating back to our 4 million year old roots to Ardepithicus Ramidus).
So, in a nut shell. All of humanity will be gay having test tube babies as nature designed.
Nature designed our brains as a survival strategy to our physical inferiority to other animals. As it turns out, that strategy has made us 6 billion strong (which in turn can be our weakness as well... but that's for another explantion not necessary for this specific rebutal).
Being that our intelligence has increased in regards to problem solving and finding solutions, yes you can argue that gays having test tube babies" are designed by nature... or better put, an end-result of nature giving us a big brain-size in which to survive our environment.
Let's assume it's a gene defect. Wouldn't millenium sort that out? By your own words - it's a dead end, non reproducive behaviour. Yet it still keeps the same ratio among the population. Do you believe, that it is spread out by homosexuals that hide in a marriage? If you do, there's really no need to go on further with this discussion, because that's just ridiculous - how would it spread out in animals then?
Or do you believe, it's not a single gay gene, but rather a combination of genes, that have different functions? Or how about it's a gene that increases fertility in females as shown by latest research (a female relative to gay male had 40% more kids in average. Wouldn't that actually prove that gene's purpose is not only to reproduce but also to increase the chance of survival of its future generations? Do you think it's non genetical, but instead psychologic - effect of twisted and unnatural human mind? Again, explain the animal behaviour then.
Sure, you can rule out every single research and indication that supports that homosexual behavior in a way improves the gene survivability and its future gene generations, by saying - it's just a homosexual propaganda. But at your age, I would expect a little more.
Im not ruling out anything. I do not read research papers on this subject or any other for that matter. I do have a reasonable amount of common sense. I would ask if sex with animals is also a natural thing? There is no way to reproduce with such activity but I assume people who indulge do so for pleasure of the act which is the only purpose such behavior can have.
Im not ruling out anything. I do not read research papers on this subject or any other for that matter. I do have a reasonable amount of common sense. I would ask if sex with animals is also a natural thing? There is no way to reproduce with such activity but I assume people who indulge do so for pleasure of the act which is the only purpose such behavior can have.
I'm sorry, but every opposition comes down sooner or later to the pedophilia, necrophilia, sex with animals... Sex with animals is a rape. Please, try to avoid this comparison.
Homosexual sex is not driven by pleasure, it's first and foremost driven by mutual sexual attraction and love.
I'm sorry, but every opposition comes down sooner or later to the pedophilia, necrophilia, sex with animals... Sex with animals is a rape. Please, try to avoid this comparison.
Ok how about sex with inanimate obejects say a blender, hopfully unplugged, or a baseball mitt? Is this natural? I have stated my reasons for my statement and you can agree or not which is your right. But one fact remains, sex is a natural function designed to insure the continuation of the species. Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas with whomever you choose to share the holidays with.
I edited my previous post, and added this line "Homosexual sex is not primarily driven by pleasure, it's first and foremost driven by mutual sexual attraction and love."
Sex, and sexual attraction is definetly a natural chemical and physical causal reaction, but it's sole purpose is not only to reproduce and never was. Marry Christmas to you too.
After reading this editorial , and showing it to my daughter , looks like I have another game on her Christmas wish list . She is 26 btw , and is old enough to boink as many elves as she wants. : P These folks who always go after things they see as harmful to children really errk me. I have managed to raise two beautiful smart children , in the inner city , where drugs , prostitution , murder , is all around them every day. and yet my girls , are hard working , college educated , drug free and have yet to make me a grandma. I have always been honest and open with them, never tried to hide them from anything in this world and always took an active role in their lives. I think the problem when these people scream about "who will protect the children " they need to look at the parents . Its not my job or the governments to raise their kids for them. Maybe if they stopped trying to raise their kids in that little box, when their kids get exposed to the real world , and they will , wont have any problems with making the right decision for themselves. As far as the dirty gay sex, were they in the mud ? Seriously , a person doesn't make a choice in this world to be straight or gay , you either are , or you aren't. Its almost 2010 , do we still need to discuss this ? Guess there will always people who will always be happy in that little safe box of theirs. Just please ...don't try to drag me into it .
I confess...I'm fairly conservative, politically speaking, and, personally, my female character would probably rather invite Morrigan to her tent because she's not half as freakin' ANNOYING as the other chick! Plus, Morrigan is much better looking...
But in all seriousness, why some bigoted freakshows are having conniption fits over mature content in a game that is rated M for mature content and requires identification in order to purchase it - or, hell, a game that requires one input a date of birth in order to even view the official webpage - is beyond me. Apparently, we must save the chil--er...the adults--from viewing morally objectionable content which they might otherwise view at school or at the next family reunion, right?
Personally, I think the game is awesome. It's well-written, gameplay is amazing and it's just great fun...but I still freakin' wish BioWare would give me the option to jump in their RPGs. :/
On your list of what was in the Game u forgot Rape and there was alot of it. Which I thott was the worse thing. If u can't get it free ,Then pay u don't got go over to the elf woman or common woman and Rape them. But hey That's just me. As for me Sure have alot gay friends But I don't care about the GP's I'm not sleepin with a dude hehe. But if that's your thing cool.
When was the last time that you heard a religious pundit say "Their was dirty, naked sex in the XXX movie." ?
Never, nor will you. Why? Because it is rated X, it is the world standard to alert people that the content of said movie is of an adult nature. What I can not fathom is why these same pundits and parents can not grasp the concept that the M rating means MATURE aka ADULT. Stop whining about the mature content in an M rated game. Be a parent and don't let your kids play M rated games if you don't want them to see mature content. If you are a critic don't be any more surprised that there is sex and violence in an M rated game than there is sex and mature content in an X rated movie. Games are not just for the kiddies anymore.