The List: Ten Reasons to Hate MMO X
MMORPG.com's Jon Wood takes a look at the most common complaints about any given MMORPG and puts them together into this week's MMORPG.com list.
Column By Jon Wood on January 13, 2010
Over the last few years, it seems as though the MMORPG audience as a whole has become more cynical. Now, that could be because of a perception that the quality of the released products that we have seen over the last few years has dwindled since the heyday of MMOs (though no one can really pinpoint an exact time when everyone loved the games that launched perfectly and butterflies and unicorns pranced merrily overhead). It could be because in a post 9/11, housing crisis and economic depression era, we're all just a little bit more cynical and jaded than we used to be. Or, it could just be that it's easier to complain on the internet now than it ever was before.
It could be any one of those reasons and any one of a dozen more, and I'm not going to be the one to decide. That's going to be the job of some poor, unwitting anthropologist or sociologist that's braver than I am.
advertisement Instead of trying to pinpoint the cause of the trend toward hating everything and trusting no one, I've decided to embrace it, because nowhere is it more evident than it is on video game forums as everyone, it seems, has a strong reason to hate on a game or two. The thing is, the hate isn't always terribly original.
In this week's list, I've compiled my own list of ten reasons to hate MMO X. Basically, it's a run down of some of the more common complaints I've heard about MMOs over the last few years. Some of you are going to tell me I should have pointed fingers at the specific games in question, which I would have done had not each of these complaints been so common among so many titles:
#10 There's Too Much Lag
"Man, MMO X sucks. Every time I try to log on, it's like a slideshow. Why can't these developers get their s%#! together and fix this stuff before launch."
Lag may be one of the single least understood element of online gaming that gets picked on the most. What is lag, exactly? Is it a server side problem? Is it a problem with your computer? Your internet connection? Programming issues?
Maybe the reason that we hear this complaint so often is because so many different things are called, "lag."
#9 The Graphics Look Like They're From 1999
"I don't know how you losers can like MMO X, the graphics look like they're from 1999."
I'm not sure what everyone's hang-up is with the year 1999, but if you've actually looked at graphics from that year and compared them to pretty much any current MMO, there's going to be a world of difference. That fact aside though, we hear time and time again that, to the hardcore MMOers out there, gameplay will trump graphics every time. If that's true, why do we so often hear this particular reason to hate an MMO?
#8 It's Just Another Theme Park
"Well, I'd play MMO X if I wanted to be led by the nose through the game with no choice and no world."
A departure from what many perceive as the origins of the MMO, the open, sandbox world, has more than a few people upset, kicking and screaming. It's difficult to argue against the fact that as time has moved on, the MMO industry has evolved to more and more closely resemble their linear, quest to quest single player cousins. For some, this has become a problem and they're not afraid to let everyone know about it, every time a new game launches.
#7 This Game is Only Going to be for Griefers
"I don't want to play a game that's going to be populated entirely by griefers."
That particular phrase seems to be the most used as a reason to hate any game that uses PvP as a main feature. That's not to say that there aren't a fair share of PvP games out there where griefers do indeed rule the roost, but every so often a company makes a PvP game that's designed to deal with annoying activity like griefing. Not everyone who likes PvP is a griefer.
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Nice list.
Need a top ten reasons to hate List X.
"Your list doesn't include Y."
"You put Z ahead of X, its obviously the other way around."
"How could you put W on your list? Everyone knows W doesn't belong there."
/chuckle
Haha I liked. Sadly though it is too true.
Very good list, and so true.
Maybe every new forum should have a sticky poll where objectors can indicate from 1 to 10 their reason why they want the game to fail.
I like my old game
This is a good article and will become useful. Now when I bitch about other games I can just use the link to the article and reference the appropriate numbers that apply.
Good article. Many posters could benefit from reading it, if only to avoid such useless cliche statements when commenting on a game.
If you dislike a game, say specifically why, without using a phrase like "it's just a grindfest".
Game mechanic gimmicks that hide lack of content.
Random rare spawns with random rare drops is particularly annoying. Whatever developer first came up with the idea should be virtually drawn and quartered daily in every MMO town square.
Blind, deaf, mute, toothless, hairless, peltless, clawless, tailless, gutless, boneless, meatless, quadroplegic animals that still manage to be able to find and hit you for significant damage. If I kill a wolf and I need its eyes, every kill should have 2 eyes.
If I kill a knight that is wearing full platemail and waving a flaming sword in my face, he better have platemail and a flaming sword on his corpse. It's rather stupid to find 2 copper and a rusty dagger when I can clearly see the flaming sword in his cold, dead hand.
Repeatable quests. Instead of actually developing new and unique content, developers have created "daily" quests so you can grind away your boredom doing the exact same stupid quest every single day.
I also find the whole "lag is terrible!" thing ridiculous, especially when people can't even differentiate between ACTUAL lag (caused by internet connection and server-side connection or infrastructure) and their own client's hardware performance issues (weak PC)... even more when those very same people complain about lag in singleplayer games. /face palm
Good read.
I don't think the word hate is the correct one. Dislike would be a better one. I don't think any of us hate these games for your reasons, we just dislike many of the problems these games have. First and foremost is the fact that many of them are released with large bug lists and missing promised features.
I think the developers misinterpret the word innovate with the idea of making things simpler. While simpler probably gets you a wider audience, it also ups the criticism from those that post on this site.
I think one of the reasons we have become so jaded has been that choice has been taken away from us. Most of the games made recently pigeonhole you into a certain class with class restrictions on garb and equipment. You get lead around by the hand by quest givers who practically solve the quest for you before you start.
Where is the challenge? Where is the mystery? Where is the fun? I don't think the genre is evolving, it is devolving in my opinion.
You could also add:
1) Game did not ship with the features they promised
( or that I read about somewhere or someone told me or I dreamt about last night)
2) Game is totally instanced and that spoils the immersion
(I have a crap computer that takes ages on the loading screens)
3) The Char creator is shit
( I cant get big enough muscles on the men to satisfy my homoerotic slef loathing or big enough breasts on the female - im so lonely)
4) This game was so overhyped by the marketing team
(I do not understand business and have a jaded opinion that devs make games just for me and I own their very souls)
5) I hate SOE
(I still cant let go of the SWG past - even though there is a good probability i never even played that game)
6) It is is not a sandbox
(I have no idea what a bloody sandbox is)
7) Its just more fantasy
( dragons make me pee myself a little)
8) Leveling is too damn hard / the quests are shit and repetitive
(I may have to put some effort in)
9) Botters and spammers are ruining this game
(I cant find teh IGNORE command or do not want to use it in case I miss something interesting)
10) They will not / could not / ignore / never will fix that bug that makes this game unplayable
(I cant really be bothered playing anymore so all I have left is an opinion - must hate)
I remember years ago having this discussion in game with my guild about how wolves don't drop eyes or skulls. Basically the only feesable conclusion we were able to come up with was that during battle the corpse was left so mangled that the parts you actually needed weren't salvagable. Same with the killing npcs that were using particular armor and weapons. The fight left their main weapon broken and their armor unusable.
I have to disagree with rare spawns though. I loved running across rare spawns that dropped better than average loot. I've even had friends that in their spare time would hunt rares just to kill them.
Agree with the rest though. Hate gimmick fights and daily quests.
Haa :)
You left out a big one - "Paid Beta."
There are lots of complaints about bugged out, unfinished and unpolished games being sold prematurely.
dont forget "forced PVE, forced PVP, forced SOLO, forced GROUP, forcer RAID..." the mostly current =)
Nice list and sadly too true.
1999 Graphics... I don't know about you but it is basicaly thanks to 1999 that amazing graphics like AION exist. The founders and fathers of the technology that is still widely used today made it's official market debut in 1999. ID TECH3, Unreal Engine are more then just FPS engines, they are the direct reason to today's modern graphics.
As for lag, it's most of the time the user's fault. People seem to think that a 2003 PC can run Crysis without a hunch. I've often seen people setting up their game way too high for their PC. Take for example EVE-Online where you can 400+ ships in your screen at the same time. If you want to keep your precious 60 frames per second then you might want to either upgrade your kit or lower your settings. Even in 2010, when Vista and WIN 7 have been around for a while, we're still stuck with several people using Direct X 9.0c. For crying out loud, Direct X 11 is out. Help yourself! Getting a better modem, network card and internet connection is also a huge factor. Basicaly, it's 99% of the time, the user's fault. Aside from release days, I've rarely seen a game that lags on it's own. Of course, when I used to play Gundam online, I was lagging like a madman but then again, my server was in Japan.
My conclusion is that people don't actually know what they want and in many cases, it's all about nostalgia. I admit, I too would love to be back in the good old SWG with my guild, pvpinga and RPing it out everynight. Then again, my life context wasn't the same back then, even if I had SWG today, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it as much. People want hardcore but it's strange, when presented with "hardcore" games like EVE or I guess Darkfall, the so called hardcore players often silently slip out through the backdoor. People want a sandbox but if provided with one, many will complain on the lack of story and content. You want hardcore but you don't want any griefing? You want a game as cool as WOW but you don't want WOW? ermmm :p
boggle boggle!
The three that I use the most from your list all go together - Not interested in another themepark, grindfest, WoW clone. See? Three in one.
The thing I don't like about this post is its intimation that most gripes are irrational, coming from the simple fact of human nature that we all like to bitch. The general notion that most MMO's are not particularly original, being slight variants on other recent MMO's, is a legitimate complaint. The problem with MMOs isn't that they've all gotten terrible since the good all days. It's that they're mostly the same. They have somewhat improved interfaces, slightly nicer graphics, slightly different combat, a slightly different setting, but they're not really doing anything different. And people do have a right to expect innovation.
And yes, to return to my favorite bitch, no one is really looking to create an immersive world anymore. That's too much work. Quest/grind/level/repeat until endgame, cliche though it may be, is still at the heart of 99% of MMOs these days. There's nothing wrong with combat and advancement, but is a game that allows one to discover a new world too much to ask? It's a big job, but if you're not creating immersive worlds, then why are you creating an MMO?
That was a good read Jon. I agree with alot of your points. Especially on lag, grindfest, etc.
Nice list, but truthfully, I just like to bitch.
I agree that something in the industry needs to change. Someone needs to step outside the box and STICK to what their initial intentions are, and not cave-in to any outside pressure to ultimately change the core of their game.
Size does matter. The game worlds are way to small.
I have played LOTRO more than any of the current titles and Moria comes to mind. After steamrolling the content I placed a wager with a guildy that I could run (no mount) from the entrance of Moria to the Lothlorien side in under 15 minutes. It ended up taking me just over 16 minutes. It made the game from there on seem so small.
If a small company like Aventurine can make a persistant world that is many times the size of WOWs,the companys like Blizzard, Turbine, and SOE should be able to make something truely massive.
It is a nice list..... though somewhat understandable too.... people expect more from well established product types that have been around for years and have had years to develop and advance... and are alot less forgiving of shortcomings in then.
When Cell phones first came out... no one really cared that much that they were the size of bricks, coverage was spotty at best and they had very limited features.... the coolness factor of a product that was able to do something that had never been done before bought alot of leniency for any flaws. These days, there is neither excuse nor tolerance for those sorts of flaws. People are alot harder on cell-phone makers today.... and are willing to pick their shortcomings apart..... and for good reason... the technology isn't a mystery anymore...the manufacturers have had decades to understand/improve it.... and there is alot of competition between makers. A similar dynamic holds true for MMO's or pretty much any product type that becomes well established.
In part though there is some legitimacy to alot of the complaints as well. In the begginings the MMO was alot closer to a hobbiest market (just like cars and planes were the first few years after they were invented). The relationship between the producers and thier audience was ALOT closer because the audience was so much smaller.... and the producers really didn't know what worked well and what didn't until they tried it out...so they were dependant on much more direct communication with thier user base. Also not being an established industry.... the people working in it...including the guys at the top running the studios were alot closer in mentality to the audience that they served. They were doing as much because they loved the work as they were to make a proffit.... because frankly no one had a freaking clue that those products WOULD be proffitable until they started proving that they were. Producers were also alot less "risk averse" then because EVERYTHING they were doing was brand spanking new....and therefore a risk.
MMO's have become more and more of a "Well Established Industry" over time....and while that comes with many upsides...there is also ALOT of baggage associated with that as well.
I think you should add the following to the list: "I'm an MMO vet, and I decree that this game sux / is broken/ is epic fail."
As someone else pointed out, the VAST majority of supposedly "game-breaking" problems or shortcomings or flaws most games have are based solely on personal preference, opinion, and taste, rather than on factual problems or demonstrably flawed game design.
The only reason why I get sick of an MMO is if I get bored with it. I don't cry, complain or use a lame excuse. I just move on.
I always will give a game a atry; usually I know within a week if I want to invest dollar one into it. If not I just move along quietly.
All Valid reasons
Travel times. I want to play a mmo game, not an aboriginal walkabout simulation. Cut them the f#$k down & stop wasting our time & money! :)
Or their in the realm of the LAG MONSTER
(Name that mmo...)
also Forced March
Originally posted by Nostromo21
Travel times. I want to play a mmo game, not an aboriginal walkabout simulation. Cut them the f#$k down & stop wasting our time & money! :)
just saying.....
Great list but the because its made by should be number 2.
#5 is my biggest fear for when Need For Speed World Online comes out.
Drift City is a mediocre, arcade-style, cel-shade graphic'd, Korean-developed, F2P MMO that is all about racing. And as you can tell by the title, that mostly involves drifting.
Drift City is one of my favorite MMOs, just b/c it's so different. It has virtually no competitors, b/c there are no other Car MMOs out there (Project Torque players tend to see it otherwise, but they don't really matter).
My fear is that when that NFS game comes out, i won't like it, and every DC player will flock there.
"I completely respect people's rights to use their wallets in any way they see fit. I use mine as a paperweight."
Really? It's that heavy is it?
Hey, I got no beef with enormous game worlds - love them in fact! But give us travel powers/mechanics ala CoX, GW or early fast travel vehicles ala the current SWG.
I like to stop & smell the roses more so than most actually, but once I've had to run (usually in quicksand slow-mo mode :) through the same area/place in a mmo for the 50th time, it all gets a bit old & nothing turns me off a game quicker (yes, I'm looking at YOU EQ2, about 5 years back!).
I don't care if portals or teleports or insta-travel is not realistic & breaks immersion for some. They are free to not use them & walk/run everywhere if they like :). OTOH, if the devs want my money, I won't be running around like a hamster for long. I'd rather grind mobs actually, as much as I hate that as well. And mounts you get at high levels are next to useless also - some of us are casual players who may not care about the endgame at all & like to experiment with alts & spend most of our (very limited) time in the low-mid levels. And we pay our $15/mth like everyone else, so there! ;-p
Yet another good List.
#10 There's Too Much Lag
This one made me laugh. I had flashbacks of UO while still on dial-up, which was fine because most people were still on dial-up.
Problem was the college kids, via at least a T-1 connect, would log in and do what I call " The Sweeps". They would sweep the most popular dungeons from top to bottom, killing everybody and everything. Now, unless you were on a high speed connection, you and your group would see the names incoming, see a few spells go off, then see gray. You really didn't have a chance.
But the payback was sweet when most of us in my guild finally had cable.
As someone else touched on, the use of the word "lag" for any problem is one of my pet peeves.
Well, that and the improper use of the words lose/loose.
Heh, I hate it when people can't spell the word "ridiculous". For how overused it is these days, on top of the built-in spellcheck in most forums, there is absolutely no excuse for misspelling it beyond wanting to look uneducated.
#1 WoW Clone
"MMO X is nothing but another WoW clone."
That's right folks, our #1 reason to hate MMO X is your favorite complaint and mine: It's a WoW clone.
World of Warcraft, being the biggest thing to happen in the MMO industry and possibly the video game industry as a whole, was bound to start setting trends in the way that these games are made. Still, that doesn't excuse the games out there that set out to make their games as much like WoW as possible without getting sued. It's lazy and isn't going to fool anyone.
That being said, there's a flip side to this coin, as WoW clone has started to be used not just to describe games that genuinely rip off WoW, but also to describe the traditional theme park MMO which, despite WoW's massive popularity, Blizzard did not invent.
---------------------------------------------
I agree that this is the top reason given.... however.....
I'm not denying that WoW is a good (excellent to most) game, but to have the audacity to cast scrutiny against any games afterwards for "making their games as much like WoW as possible without getting sued" is plain idiocy when WoW is guilty of this concept itself.
I swear to god, people put the blindfolds on and earplugs in whenever this pathetic excuse is thrown back at WoW for being an UO, EQ, <insert other MMOs here out at WoW's release> clone. But then, the truly naive think there was nothing before WoW and that the entire genre was invented with it's release. People who support the "X is a clone of WoW, but WoW isn't a clone of anything" are full of shit. Current MMOs are doing the same thing as every other MMO, including your precious WoW, did before: pluck the best qualities of other MMOs and try to build something awesome.
Sorry boys and girls, WoW is not unique, no matter how much fanboi crying you use to try and defend against this; It just happens to be the best collective database for popular MMO features around. And for the slow who can't figure out what this means, it means that Blizz has already sniffed the better qualities of existing/upcoming MMOs and added them to as their own. At least half of the features since and including BC have been copied from other MMOs. So why waste time researching the other MMOs when someone already has? Just copy their notes, as they did to get them, and move on.
If you wanted the best price on a TV, would you go to every store and check prices for the next week, or go to that popular store who already spent a week comparing prices and matched the lowest? Same idea.
And no, this is not from a WoW-hater (as I hinted at the beginning). I just live in this place called "reality" where I try to examine the whole truth of things, not just the biased bullshit that most try to use.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have some daily randoms to run....
I like this idea. It would save all of us a lot of time by eliminating the need to read a bunch of useless crap that usually leads to one of those points. I should know...I type plenty of it. After all....I have to EXPLAIN why point 1, 4, 7 or 8 applies to MMO X.
However....it would be a lot easier to just make a post now simply stating:
"Reason # 7."
And then...I would never incur flare ups of carpal tunnel again.
You win for most useful post in this thread! ;)
"your" instead of "you're" has to be right up there...don't even get me started on "ur" ;)
I despise grammar police on internet forums, especially in the society we live in today with things such as text messages.
I'm horrible at grammar and spelling and hated studying it in school. I improved it a lot while studying for my admissions test to get in Grad school, but I still hate it and make many errors all the time.
I say that to say this, just because i struggle with it does not mean that I am not educated. My quantitative and analytical skills are very high, I'm an accountant by trade. I do taxes for doctors and other highly intelligent people all the time, God gave us all abilities that we excel in and other abilities we aren't so good in.
Judging someone's intellect or education based upon one's understanding of written English language is moronic and is many times an indicator that you yourself are not well educated and are taking an opportunity to try and prove your intellect by degrading someone else by highlighting the tidbit of information you do know.
Good article, thanks for posting.
I like this idea. It would save all of us a lot of time by eliminating the need to read a bunch of useless crap that usually leads to one of those points. I should know...I type plenty of it. After all....I have to EXPLAIN why point 1, 4, 7 or 8 applies to MMO X.
However....it would be a lot easier to just make a post now simply stating:
"Reason # 7."
And then...I would never incur flare ups of carpal tunnel again.
You win for most useful post in this thread! ;)
This stood out to me too. I think this is a great idea.
"This game would be great if it had a little less # 1 and more # 7. Basically I am saying this is a # 6 nightmare."
I hear that combo a lot.
This stood out to me too. I think this is a great idea.
"This game would be great if it had a little less # 1 and more # 7. Basically I am saying this is a # 6 nightmare."
I hear that combo a lot.
ROFL!!! OMG....that made me actually CACKLE! =D
On reason #1 "This is a complete WoW clone"
When I first started playing WoW, all I could think of was
THIS IS A COMPLETE EQ CLONE
I still think that WoW is a shameless ripoff of EQ1
They just did it slicker, with fewer bugs, worse graphics, and managed to market it enough to break all subscription records.
Griefers are only part of the problem. The other part are the penalties for getting killed. In EVE one griefer looking for a thrill can cost you weeks or months of work. That's something I'd rather not deal with. I mean being a casuality of a faction war is one thing, but biting it because some loser is bored is not something I want to deal with. It's not fun. Games are for fun right? What's the fun in being another notch some jerk's kill list?
Do you seriously think WoW's graphics are WORSE than EQ1? O.o I mean, I can understand someone saying EQ2 (if they like that more plastic sort of semi-realism look), but to say EQ1 graphics were better than WoW? Better how? WoW actually won numerous awards for their artistic design. Granted it's a stylized game....so maybe you just like the "style" of characters that look like they were drawn by a junior high school artist and move like they have sticks up their butts...okay...I can accept that. But that means that we both have different artistic TASTE, not that one or the other is necessarily better....
Although....I guess I am really saying WoW's graphics are better than EQ1s....
Meh...forgive me. I suppose it is all really about preference, huh?
But worse than EQ ONE?.... I still can't get over the fact that anyone said that.....
Wait...EQ ONE?! Really? ONE?
.........
Still in shock.....
EQ ONE right....not TWO, but....ONE?
Wow....just....wow.
I think he mentioned personal preferences... Many people I know think Everquest went downhill sharply after the PoK (fast travel just about everywhere.) And I agree.
One ideal is a game you can log into and play 10 minutes and get something done. The other is a game that seems to want you to play for hours, organizing, camping, traveling, recovering your corpse.
Err, sorry, close to bedtime and I need to decide whether to plant radishes tonight.
I don't think the number one reason is so much a comment on WoW itself or the similarities of other games, but a growing distaste with the overall genre. I played WoW for nearly 5 years, but after that I felt like I had seen it all. I wasn't excited about the Wrath of the Lich King because it only promised more of the same. I've given other games a shot here and there (CoH, EVE, iRO, and Aion) and just couldn't get excited about killing mobs and question for loot.
Dude, you can't be that bad at spelling as I couldn't spot one mistake in that whole post. ;)
LOL! I guess I just can't understand (or sympathise) with ppl who actually *prefer* to have to run all over the same countryside 50 times, than some good fast travel options. They clearly have too much time on their hands. Never let realism get in the way of good gameplay. All mmo devs could learn a thing or two from ArenaNet & GW (which isn't a 'real' mmorpg anyway!) if you ask me. Oh wait, they're going to have GW2 out soon - more lessons they won't learn for the rest of the market yet again :).
OTOH, WOW, what can I say about WoW. It's the grindy hamster wheel of uber grindness. It did/does for grind what crack does for the mind <G>. Ok, it's not that bad, but it's addictive & repetitive, while being solo/casual friendly & most PC/platform spec friendly, which are 2 things Blizzard did their marketing on very well. LOTRO is only better imo because of it's integrated lore & story, better visuals/world immersion & far different/better community due to it being an almost purely PvE game.
And you can't compare EQ1 to WoW - it's utterly antiquated & prosaic as a mmo in 2010. Even WoW is falling behind the times, even if it's not losing subs as yet.
[quote]Originally posted by girlgeek
Do you seriously think WoW's graphics are WORSE than EQ1? O.o I mean, I can...
<snip>
Wow....just....wow.[/b][/quote]
ROFLMAO!!! Pwned...by a girlgeek! ;)
#9 Graphics like 1999
Gameplay rules, but if the game play (or the community) just isn't that much obviously better in the demo period, I'll go with a game where the gameplay and community are good and the graphics are prettier (assuming they don't lag me out, see #10 *heh*)
#4 SOE (er, sorry, This Game Shop) Sucks!
It's not just a purchase/choice, it's a relationship (and usually a subscription). Choosing an MMO is a lot like scoping out a potential GF/BF -- and let's face it, many of us spend more time with our games...:) You want to know their character and history, and how likely they are to screw you over, and if they're going to produce more drama or joy, and how likely it is they'll stick with you in a pinch, help you with your problems, understand your needs, and be someone you want to see -- and look *forward to seeing* -- every day for years. How often will they make you go shopping with them at the mall? :) How many relationships go south because one partner changes the rules radically after months or years? You get my point.
Yrs,
Shava
Maybe 1 or 2 is most likely, but the rest dont make sense.
Not enough quests usually. Boring repeat quests. PVP. Price for MMOs should be 9.99 i think. There is much more but too much to mention. I like MMOs but I have not played a perfect one yet. EQ2 is the closest one to number 1 for me personally. I am a casual gamer although i spend long hours playing when i play.
People who hate games need to sort out their priorities in life, seriously.
Dislike? Ok, sure - but hate is a word way too strong to be wasted on something as trivial as a computer game.
I did enjoy the 10 reason and I can see there is something broken in the MMO world.
Here's what I would like to see in the future of MMO's:
Gaming Engines that look good and run good
I want to see MMO's on console systems, they can handle them...so what gives.
Subscription fee? Maybe 15 dollars is too high, maybe 10 dollars is too high, maybe a subscription fee should removed
Purchase the full retail game and when new content comes out...usually in the form of a patch we would pay for that in a DLC kind of way.
Grinding doesn't have to be a chore, there can be some grinding but don't make it take up so much of our time.
Pre-order bulls@it needs to stop with all of these goodies from dozens of retailers, I think there should only be a few pre-order bonuses and that's it, I don't want to have to check out 15 different places and see what would be better, this shouldn't be window shopping, I shouldn't be stressed out on if I selected the right pre-order or not.
Story that's gripping and pulls you in.
Missions that have more of a meaning to them and they actually make you want to read the text.
Voiced dialog from main NPC's, it's always nice to hear the voice of characters in a game. I will be happy to see how voice dialog rolls out with Star Wars TOR in 2011.
In-game or CGI cut scenes , this is a huge lack MMO's - I would love to see this more in a game and not a few times in the game, if even that.
Stop making EQ clones, make something different already. Everyone says oh it's a WOW clone, lol WOW is a heavily modified EQ clone.
I'm glad to see Character Creator's are becoming more important that's a plus right there.
Customizing your UI, most MMO's now have this which I am so glad to see, stares at Blizzard
Music that actually sounds great and doesn't become annoying after a hour, then you immediately are looking for the mute button. AOC to me had great music and still does to me....I want more of this. I'm sure Hans Zimmer or John Williams would like to do some MMO music.
Character animations, I would like to see more movement in fighting, walking and how toons are expressed in games.
Sandbox plz, instance zone with limited amount of ppl have been done way too much, I mean were paying money to play these games monthly, I want to see 100's to 1000's of ppl in the same zone.
Questing gives you great items, not just raids, pvp zones or dungeons/instances.
I'm glad to see that Final Fantasy XIV is going to step away from leveling/experience points, this could be something great to see in MMO's
Weather conditions in the game effect how gameplay feels and can change how you look at a fight.
Day and Night quests, having quest givers giving you something different if you seek them out at a different time in the day, this would make the game twice as enjoyable.
Great crafting options if the game has them, only a few games have done this well, but that's not enough.
Travel options, limiting players on ways to get around can cause us to play less cause it takes so much time to get from point A to point B.
Make exploring fun, maybe while wandering around something happens in real time that effects the area your in.
Skill system to have a easy layout and have guide lines that make it easier to spec your toon the correct way, more so you don't have to look at websites or search out forums to finding out what your doing incorrectly.
Going in water should not kill your toon...Aion needs to let you swim in water, what the hell is that about, I don't care if I'm wearing all metal, that is just plain ole stupid.
AOC allowed you to attack your foe's with multiple options, giving you a different feel when playing.
Flying and Mount combat, if the game has mount options, maybe a upgrade system that allows you to use your mount in a fight, this would be great to see, I know only a few MMO's have really tried and this and it's still in the trial and error stages.
Trading systems, this always need to be an option, sometimes you want to give a alt something, or a team mate a item or maybe your guild.
Auction Houses, this is a must like always, without this something is going to go wrong.
Spam bots need not to exist, this is why I ended my Aion account, this was a pain for me for over 2months and I got fed up with it.
Server lag needs to be address and corrected, WOW has been the biggest lag to this day and it doesn't matter how great my system is.
Being in a guild gives your perks and of course having guilds in a MMO.
Titles that actually give you stat boost, I loved this in Aion and I know a few other games out there do this as well.
Housing and Guild Housing, EQ2 was the first MMO I played that had this and I was impressed.
I have a feeling that Final Fantasy XIV will be the MMO a lot of ppl have been waiting for and I can't wait till it's launch.
Ever heard of optimisation issues? Ever heard of outdated and poorly visioned graphic concepts which does not realise itself couple years down the road upon game release (EQ2)?
The OP never said that complains are illegitimate. He just list 10 of the more common reasons to come here to spam and moan. Thank you for confirming the OP's list.
Can't agree no more with you. Living in Asia, I can understand that most F2P games are trying every methode to hog our time to stay online in the game world, But com'on, P2P games do this, too! The reason is beyond me.
And knowing that I'll get flamed pointing fingers, but I have to say WoW does this same mechanism of letting players flying all over the place between distant landmarks. Some times a 15min ride just to deliver a freakin quest.
I really understand the design of the whole culture that WoW wants to maintain in it's world, but is this traveling time really neccesary! I don't mind flying the first time, but everytime!!
I would really appreciate the Fallout3 design, where you discover it the first time on foot and can instantly back travel via the pipboy2000 map.
A hate article from the site's Managing Editor, you gotta love it :)
#10 Lag – Is actually one of the greatest gamer excuses of all time. If I agg a mob I was not supposed to, it is lag, if I get killed by an opponent in FPS it is that darn lag!
#9 Graphics from 1999 – It was the non hardcore players who joined us with WoW and consoles that made the player population love graphics too much. That said we all love better graphics, it just part of the schizophrenia of being a gamer.
#8 Just Another Theme Park – Well usually, it is.
#7 This Game is for Griefers – I am a PvP fan, but not open PvP, servers which are open PvP seem to lose their population more quickly than those which are RvR or PvE. Why this is I am not sure, but it does not bode well for long term success.
#6 This Game is for Carebears – The whole gaming industry is moving towards a carebear doctrine so as to exapand the player base, perfectly legit gripe.
#3 It's a Grindfest – As much a result of our jaded tastes as of gaming design.
#2 Microtransactions are the Devil – They are and if the MMO you play has its way, that wallet of yours might get a bit too light to be a paperweight.
so, to sum up the article.
- we have legit reasons to criticize most MMOs.
- we all seem to like to generalize in how we do it.
Neat list, not sure what the point is though, really.
Sarcasm and its a parody of the nonsense you read in any game forum.
I agree. I hate microtrans, especially if it is double dipping. You might, might be able to convince me to check out a F2P with micros, but when a P2P start nickle and diming customers who are ALREADY PAYING... I take issue.
How about a list "Top Ten MMO excuses"?
like...
"This game is not for everyone"
"You have to be in a guild/corp/kinship/whatever to start the fun"
"the fun starts at level X"
"Go back to WoW"
Loved the article, it made me giggle.
Just reading the responses made me think: can you imagine if we all refrained from using any of the 10 stated reasons for disliking a game (I'm with the poster that said hating a game = reason to get out more) in posts for a week? The forums would turn into tumbleweed city.
Just look at the posts about Star Trek Online (handy since OB started t'other day) and see how many posters are clinging to the gaming-whiner-decalogue Jon listed.
It's kinda scary.
I have an idea for a follow-up as well: 10 most over-used (and probably irrelevant) arguments for why a game "sucks" at launch. There'd be some crossover, to be sure, but room for classics like "OMG OB started 15 minutes late!!! /ragequit" or "ZOMG I can't roll a toon of blah faction and so can't play with my friends EVER!!!! /ragequit" (the latter being my favourite headdesk-inducement from the Aion launch).
I consider myself a MMO veteran and from my point of view, there are significant problems with lots of modern MMOs.
1) LAG... the real lag where you sit on 1Gbit line connected to Cisco Catalyst and further running on fiber 2.5Gb... and you try to cast a spell and wait seconds before the spell starts to activate (while keeping your 60FPS)... This was a great issue with Warhammer, the server lag was just nuts.
2) Freaking instances... for the Christ sake, I am going to play _M_MO to play with people, not to get sucked in some stupid instance to solo whole day... I can install offline RPG to do so. In my opinion instances just point out inability of game designers to design good game environment that doesn't need instances to keep stable.
3) Well balanced PvE/PvP part... If I have a mood, I want to PvE without being bothered by some PKer... when I have a mood to slaughter, I want to do that against people with same feeling, not to slaughter poor casual trying hard to earn his first shoes. The best solution to this I have ever met was in Dark Age of Camelot.
4) Binding stuff should not exist. To provide working balanced market, there should be as little binding of stuff as possible. Ofc, this puts A LOT of stress on the GMs etc. to catch and kick money/item sellers. But I am well willing to pay few more $ a month if I don't get any seller spam.
5) I want my MMO to be massive. If there is a war between fractions, I do not want to be limited by "40" players in the zone... Damn, if I am at war I bring an army and except an army to face, not some few volunteer raiding party. Ten years ago, Dark Age of Camelot handled hundreds of players in same zone with much less lag than Warhammer does with few dozens players these days (and I am not comparing abyssal performance gap between server hardware these days and 10 years ago).
6) Good game makes you sincerely hate your enemy... be it computer managed AI or player of enemy realm.
7) I want graphics to look realistic... in a way it doesn't look like animated cartoon. I want tree looking like a tree (and not like if it was designed for 6 yrs old), I want orc looking like an orc, not reminding me Mickey Mouse. Hope you get what I mean.
8) I want to have a community I feel good with... this is the most important factor in a MMO. Thing is back in days I started with MMOs, there wasn't that much people with usable internet access, it was mostly "older" people at age of university students or older. The games were designed for them. These days major community playing MMOs seem to be teenagers and as such the games are designed for them. I am getting too old to have fun with bunch of teens.
9) Grinding or questing... honestly it doesn't matter slightest... as long as you have fun doing it.
10) Don't get sucked in producers lines "Make a WoW clone, we give you 1/5 money they had and 1/3 time they had" to expect easy profit. Try something new, don't be afraid to bring out new ideas.
That made me laugh a little more :)
To entertain the readers?
Most of the "Lists" published here usually don't have a point,but are purely for entertainment. Kind of like juggling cats.
Needed an outlet for nerd rage should have been on the list
Kind of funny that you made this list.
I made a post about a game calling it a WoW clone. And what happens? I'm called a troll!
Why can't you be negative at this place? Must we all love every game?
How fun would it be if we all looked the same? Every movie was the same? If you say that a movie is a clone thats ok.... but here you are called a troll and then I get banned....
Good list but I wonder... when people say WoW didn't invent the theme park MMO what MMO do they think did? Agreed WoW launched amid other theme park launches but I can't think of any theme parks before 2004. UO? No. EQ? No. AC? No. DAoC? Ish. AO? No. AC2? Ish. SWG? No. EQ2? Yes. WoW? Heavily.
Unless my memory is foggy I can't remember an MMO that embraced the theme park model as fully as WoW... before WoW. No other game sets you lose in an open world and yet if you follow the quest lines, directs you through the content both solo and group. That said I didn't like WoW in 2004 and boy is it fugly today but design wise its impressive.
Anywho back to EQ2:SF beta =)
#5 It's in Direct Competition with MMO Y, Which is Much More Awesome
Actually we have quite alot of arguments regarding this in VG forums, VG vs EQ2 when players question why soe doesn't promote VG...
Computer games live or die by the flow of coin. Don't like it, just stop paying time or money for it. Spending personal energy to "hate" a game is a bit of a waste, no?
OTOH, the phrase "trivial as a computer game" struck me.
I wonder if the poster has ever experienced "immersion" another standard that might have made the list...
"It's not immersive."
Ever gotten so caught up in the community, environment, etc. so that something happened that was special? Happened several times for me in EQ, but in about the same playing time never in WOW. And yet I enjoyed WOW. But for instance, I never experienced a moment in WOW when my group absolutely went berserk, laughing like hell, and couldn't think of it later without cracking up again. The game provided a setting where the interaction between people could reach "critical mass".
The first time it happened I realized it might just be a computer game, but the experiences, some times, were not trivial at all.
Come to think of it, one MMO in 10+ years had rare moments of "immersion." Strictly a personal thing, I am sure.
bad patches are the number 1 reason why i quit some mmo's.....
"I want to see MMO's on console systems, they can handle them...so what gives.
Subscription fee? Maybe 15 dollars is too high, maybe 10 dollars is too high, maybe a subscription fee should removed
Purchase the full retail game and when new content comes out...usually in the form of a patch we would pay for that in a DLC kind of way."
That works for single player games, but not for most mmo's. The monthly fees are paying server fees, employees, new content, and paying of the original fee it took to create the game. I can see lowering the fee once you get enough subscribers, but to have no fee and rely on people buying only the game itself is not smart business wise.
Also, most of these features you want cost money, but you still want to pay either less or nothing? The more immersive and involving a game is, the more its going to cost to develop.
funny article, but all to true. the thing about lag though a majority of the time it's usually the user's low-end PC or they are on a sucky internet service, and in some cases actually trying to play the game on dial-up (shiver at the thought).
You make this admission and then still try to belittle someone for their preference. Nice. I happen to prefer some of EQ1's models to WoW's as well (especially since I'd never want to play a cow or a corpse).
The only issue I have with the list is #5:
#5 It's in Direct Competition with MMO Y, Which is Much More Awesome
This is one of the reasons on this list that doesn't actually get said very often. That's why I didn't provide a made-up quote for it. You really don't get many people saying, "I hate MMO X because I'm afraid it'll somehow make MMO Y a worse game," but those people, with that exact same reasoning, always seem to crop up around the newest MMO launch.
I don't know why it is that there seems to be the illusion out there that if one MMO does well, then it will obviously seriously negatively impact whatever game it is what we happen to be playing and enjoying at the time. Most times, that's not going to be the case, but that doesn't stop people from hating one game out of loyalty to another.
The problem with this is, it's true in many cases. Not competing against games per se, but competing for development resources. Anyone who played Lineage 2 while Aion was being developed (or is playing Champions now) can tell you that. It was openly admitted by SOE that during FreeRealms' development, people from EQ1's dev team were shifted to that project (though one of them was the item designer - good riddance Merloc!). Those are the types of concerns that players of 'MMO Y' might have that could very well be valid. For many, their favorite game having to operate with a virtual skeleton crew so the rest can work on 'New Game Y' is negatively impacting them.
Now we need a thread on 10 reasons to love mmo x. I bet it reads similarly enough that we could say what we have here is not a hate list as much as a fairly good definition of the mmorpg genre..
Good article. It's impossible to do the perfect list, however here some major points that could be added.
You make this admission and then still try to belittle someone for their preference. Nice. I happen to prefer some of EQ1's models to WoW's as well (especially since I'd never want to play a cow or a corpse).
The only issue I have with the list is #5:
#5 It's in Direct Competition with MMO Y, Which is Much More Awesome
This is one of the reasons on this list that doesn't actually get said very often. That's why I didn't provide a made-up quote for it. You really don't get many people saying, "I hate MMO X because I'm afraid it'll somehow make MMO Y a worse game," but those people, with that exact same reasoning, always seem to crop up around the newest MMO launch.
I don't know why it is that there seems to be the illusion out there that if one MMO does well, then it will obviously seriously negatively impact whatever game it is what we happen to be playing and enjoying at the time. Most times, that's not going to be the case, but that doesn't stop people from hating one game out of loyalty to another.
The problem with this is, it's true in many cases. Not competing against games per se, but competing for development resources. Anyone who played Lineage 2 while Aion was being developed (or is playing Champions now) can tell you that. It was openly admitted by SOE that during FreeRealms' development, people from EQ1's dev team were shifted to that project (though one of them was the item designer - good riddance Merloc!). Those are the types of concerns that players of 'MMO Y' might have that could very well be valid. For many, their favorite game having to operate with a virtual skeleton crew so the rest can work on 'New Game Y' is negatively impacting them.
Thank you. I take pride in admitting my own biases and yet still freely expressing them. Just like EVERY OTHER member of these forums. Glad you were able to point out how well I fit in. Oh wait...actually, most people here don't even ADMIT they have biases, so I guess that still puts me one ahead on the "poster honesty" meter. Now...where is that poster rating scale? I need to remember to give myself a "thumbs up."
/end sarcasm
By the way....you'll notice if you re-read what I actually said (and I do type AS I am thinking, I don't "pre-plan" my posts)....that I didn't "belittle" them AFTER I realized that we were really talking about a matter of taste. So to say I "made that admission" and THEN belittled them....would be inaccurate. I just typed out the literal things I was thinking AS I was thinking them.
I dislike some games for having UIs that I find difficult, being too twitchy, having the wrong setting for my tastes or just not keeping my attention. I am all about letting every title stand on its own merits, now that I've come out of my jaded gamer phase.
Maybe there's hope for everyone, if I can manage to become less cynical.
As far as graphics like 1999, even the major players on the market in 1999 don't look like they did in 1999. Perhaps people have forgotten exactly what games looked like back then. For a return to what that era looked like, go take a trial tour of Asheron's Call.
Computer games live or die by the flow of coin. Don't like it, just stop paying time or money for it. Spending personal energy to "hate" a game is a bit of a waste, no?
OTOH, the phrase "trivial as a computer game" struck me.
I wonder if the poster has ever experienced "immersion" another standard that might have made the list...
"It's not immersive."
Ever gotten so caught up in the community, environment, etc. so that something happened that was special? Happened several times for me in EQ, but in about the same playing time never in WOW. And yet I enjoyed WOW. But for instance, I never experienced a moment in WOW when my group absolutely went berserk, laughing like hell, and couldn't think of it later without cracking up again. The game provided a setting where the interaction between people could reach "critical mass".
The first time it happened I realized it might just be a computer game, but the experiences, some times, were not trivial at all.
Come to think of it, one MMO in 10+ years had rare moments of "immersion." Strictly a personal thing, I am sure.
Yes this really struck me. I can never forget the first week I spent outside Oggok as a level 1-8 Ogre shaman. The game is horrible by current standards, everything from design to UI to ... but it is just plain immersion. Far far more than anyday in 45 degree vision UO, far far more than any movie. It is just as if I am that fat lump of meat Ogre. I can almost feel him. When he dies, I sigh, naturally. I am no longer minimaxing, I am inside, feeling and suffering, with him.
I know EQ was not the best, is far outdated when comparing to anything now. But that first week in EQ is just ... speechless.
In my opinion, "Company Z" would be "Sony Online Entertainment".
Yes, I have been personally burned by this company, but I have also witnessed it's destruction in games. I'm sure many will agree with me when I say that SOE kills games, but my greatest example is a little game called "Infantry".
For those who remember, "Infantry' was a fantastic top-down shooter game! For those who don't, well..you missed out. It had different classes, some RPG aspects (like skill choosing on diff servers), vehicles of all sorts, and some fun maps that even repetitive were still kick butt and plenty of players. It was also, 100% free-to-play, no premium accts or nothing.
Then, one day, without warning and out of the blue SOE makes an announcement that the game will now cost money to play. Suddenly the population drops from 300 per server to 25, on a good day in the middle of the afternoon. Or something to that extent but with the same percentage drop. At least 85% of the people who played, left and never came back. Even now that the game is completely free again (although lacks quite a few of the old vehicles) the population and hype of the game is still lower than the used diaper in a trash can.
And, I haven't looked at it for awhile, but I'm sure it's still there, if you goto the website for Infantry it will probably show a little flash video of a tank firing and some minor combat that my friends is what could be referred to as false adveritsing, as that type of epic game play hasn't been in the game for a while now.
You didn't put "MMO X has a bad community." That's another big reason people hate some MMOs. I hear it a bit about WoW for example.
When i hear ppl say that it's a WoW clone i wonder if these chimps ever played anything else before WoW... It's true that we see those allot, ppl seem to repeat over and over these '' Idiotic" excuses. Now seeing your article i might just refer these chimps to it so that they can see how unoriginal they are...
Thanks for the article...
Yes I played EQ and EQ2, when I say wow clone I guess I should realy state making a game that appeals to that player demographic. Lots of folks love it, good for them. That seams to be the target gamer that most of these game apeal to nowdays. I have said on many of a post dont try to make wow clones, I don't want to be in that demographic.
no, u shouldnt have what i have becuase you log in far less because of your life, or because you have the game, pay your fee and dont even log in at all, so when it comes time to protest youre right there, but when it comes down to it youre sitting on the sideline. get it how you live. if youre not playing, youre not getting that simple. dont get upset because someone may have put in 5k hours worth of work to reach 6k dps (you sound like a WoW person, so im using WoW terms, no i havent put in 5k hours), whilist you on the other hand put in 10 hours a week, and expect in that week'st ime to get 6k dps, /NO not going to happen. dont get upset becaue your gear isnt all purple like mine :D, and i didnt ebay my way through life.
Bitch and gripe about Champions online being the way it is. But the game is not entirly soloable. Their are area where you do need to party toget the job done. And it's not a rip off of City of Hero/Villians. It's in a way a continuation of that series. Without being stuck up NCSoft's boot. I honestly like the way it plays.
The term WOW Clone is thrown around a little to much for my taste. Too many games are considered a WOW Clone when they are actually not. And it's not in anyway a clone the it still considered . Yall honestly need to quit your bitching or go play single player.
Per hating on games with micro transactions, I think it's perfectly reasonable.
Sure, people are free to spend there money however they want, but the point is, when you're in a game, one person purchasing advancements can, and does, effect other players. It creates an environment where to have 'equal' opportunity between players, they all have to pump cash into the game, otherwise they won't stay competitive with everyone else. In other words, even if it's optional, it is still pseudo mandatory to stay competitive because there are inevitably other people who are getting an unfair advantage by swiping their credit card.
Would you play a game of chess where you could pay $10 to get an extra queen on the board? I highly doubt it. So why would you want to play an MMO where you can pay extra to get an advantage? Most people don't, and they don't want to play a game where other people have the option to cheat with their credit cards either.
Heh, I hate it when people can't spell the word "ridiculous". For how overused it is these days, on top of the built-in spellcheck in most forums, there is absolutely no excuse for misspelling it beyond wanting to look uneducated.
My pet peeve is run-on sentences, just like the one above...
Don't even get me started on using the word 'for' to begin a sentence.
Well it seems most of those "reasons" are really only personal preferences but blown out of proportion. I am just going to list some random thoughts to the cynical nature of MMO community.
1) It is the nature of people to complain more than praise. Simply try to remember when was the last time you have said or thought "The world is wonderful." and compare it to how many times you said or thought "The world sucks." It doesn't mean the world actually sucks, but it does show that human nature is simply that way.
2) People have short attention span. I would like to go in this subject more, but I am already sick of this.
3) Ego, Ego, Ego. This particular point is very broad and include alot of elements, but I am just going to simplify it. People want to be right and want to judge the world with one standard (their own), but the problem is, everyone have different standards and thoughts. Those that can accept other's thoughts are called adults, those who can't are still children no matter how old they are physiologically.
Plenty more, but stopping here.
Empathy is something taught by oneself, not by others.
it's a themepark